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The Knott's Berry Farm (KBF) Discussion Thread

P. 639: Montezooma's Revenge major renovations announced!

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14 minutes ago, boldikus said:

Is there something that directly points to B&M? Serious question. Could this maybe be a Mack or Intamin? (You can't answer with CF doesn't work with Intamin)

I would say aside from the fact that we know CF works with B&M for their largest coasters (note, this is not anything exclusive just how it has been asided from 305 in recent years), it's the supports for me as well as the placement of the transfer track and the layout.  It's literally looking like an extended Fury 325.

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58 minutes ago, boldikus said:

Is there something that directly points to B&M? Serious question. Could this maybe be a Mack or Intamin? (You can't answer with CF doesn't work with Intamin)

Cedar Fair might work with Intamin but look at what Intamin rides Knotts had/has Xcelerator, Sky Cabin, Calico River Rapids, Perilous Plunge.... A few of them have been nothing but trouble for Knotts. I would really hope to see this happen since knotts has had a few big coasters taken away from them just like CGA just did. 

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15 minutes ago, kbfbest said:

I would really hope to see this happen since knotts has had a few big coasters taken away from them...

Um, just out of curiosity, which out of these four would you consider a "big" coaster?

Boomerang
Corkscrew
Wacky Soap Box Racers
Windjammer Surf Racers

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1 minute ago, Mike240SX said:

Um, just out of curiosity, which out of these four would you consider a "big" coaster?

Boomerang
Corkscrew
Wacky Soap Box Racers
Windjammer Surf Racers

None... But Windjammer was a nightmare for the park and then Soap Box Racers was just getting rundown and needed a lot of work to keep open in the end. and Boomerang/Corkscrew are Arrow/Vekomas. 

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1 hour ago, coasternut said:

I too would really love this to happen. There are 2 reasons why it won't.

1. NEIGHBORS

2. IT'S IN CALIFORNIA

 

Yeah :(and the thing is if we are honest about it, (which I admit is hard because holy shit I WANT this to happen so bad) I'd not blame people. We're coaster enthusiasts, most are not. Ive already seen so much "oh come on itll be fine/who wouldnt want this!?/well why live there then??" but if people can be honest and not rabid interneters....I get why locals wouldn't love this. Hell, I love parks and I like the sightsof em...but for 300 days a year I'd prob not want to live right near one and I know many prob DONT wanna see some 300 foot thing. That said if the park is really trying to go ahead with this hopefully they will try things like sound barriers, sand in the track, the quiet chains etc to make a good case. 

So yeah I basically hold 0 expectation and will just try to forget and wait and see. Because the thought a Fury-style giga with a supposedly 340+ foot drop and pretty gnarly helix? I'm already excited and don't wanna be crushed lol :(

 

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4 minutes ago, kbfbest said:

None... But Windjammer was a nightmare for the park and then Soap Box Racers was just getting rundown and needed a lot of work to keep open in the end. and Boomerang/Corkscrew are Arrow/Vekomas. 

Right, but you specifically said:

30 minutes ago, kbfbest said:

 knotts has had a few big coasters taken away

Just trying to figure out what you were referring to.

Soap Box Racers was also an Arrow, and Windjammer was a Togo, so thus irrelevant to the conversation of "Intamins are problematic."

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5 minutes ago, Mike240SX said:

Right, but you specifically said:

Just trying to figure out what you were referring to.

Soap Box Racers was also an Arrow, and Windjammer was a Togo, so thus irrelevant to the conversation of "Intamins are problematic."

for Intamins I was really talking about Perilous Plunge, and Xcel. As for rides taken away I mean coasters that started life planned for knotts that ended up bring built at other CF parks. 

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I mean, I have never seen an actual project layout for any other large coaster for Knott's other than the ones we have seen the last day or so. . . so can we really say something was taken away when there is no actual proof it was actually planned?

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3 hours ago, jarmor said:

First, I didn't call you a disney fanboy, I said the disney frame of mind in the sense that they announce things 20 years out and it never comes into fruition.  I cannot grasp the concept that since you think a ride in the mold of a hyper would work well at Knott's and you THINK cedar fair knows that as well, why would they go and design a giga instead lol?!?!?  I cannot think of one project that had PLANS SUBMITTED, note I said plans submitted without having all aspects of cost covered, including permits, inflation (which should not matter if you agreed to one price and signed a contract for it).  I feel we are past all the things you're talking about and now just waiting for final approvals and construction.  I know of one coaster that had to make drastic changes to the layout after construction and that was Tenn Tornado and that was damn near 20 years ago.

Serious question, have the plans actually been submitted?

I was under the impression that they were just internal designs that had been leaked, not official planning documents. If they have been submitted then you are correct, and my cost argument is probably dead.

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People need to stop wondering about the “neighbors” I live in Orange County and Knotts is the jewell of this area. The people that bought or that live near Knotts know and expect noise. If cedar fair is ready to invest in the probably $40 million this will cost then it will happen. The city of Buena Park know they are in direct competition with Disney and Anaheim… they need this. Knotts has to invest to compete. Now I know all you will say they don’t compete with Disney but living in the area they absolutely do!! Or at least they have to make Knotts a must go to place for people traveling out of state to visit Disney/Universal. As it stands now Knotts has become a locals park only, this will make them a destination for everyone. This is going to happen!!!

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7 hours ago, coasternut said:

I too would really love this to happen. There are 2 reasons why it won't.

1. NEIGHBORS

2. IT'S IN CALIFORNIA

 

Knotts has never had a project denied approval by the city council. If this coaster is real, it will be approved.

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13 hours ago, JJLehto said:

Yeah :(and the thing is if we are honest about it, (which I admit is hard because holy shit I WANT this to happen so bad) I'd not blame people. We're coaster enthusiasts, most are not. Ive already seen so much "oh come on itll be fine/who wouldnt want this!?/well why live there then??" but if people can be honest and not rabid interneters....I get why locals wouldn't love this. Hell, I love parks and I like the sightsof em...but for 300 days a year I'd prob not want to live right near one and I know many prob DONT wanna see some 300 foot thing. That said if the park is really trying to go ahead with this hopefully they will try things like sound barriers, sand in the track, the quiet chains etc to make a good case. 

So yeah I basically hold 0 expectation and will just try to forget and wait and see. Because the thought a Fury-style giga with a supposedly 340+ foot drop and pretty gnarly helix? I'm already excited and don't wanna be crushed lol :(

 

There is a special place in hell for people who move next door to place that has been around 100 years and then complain about it 

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2 minutes ago, jarmor said:

switching gears, what was the reason windseeker got removed (aside from sticking out like a sore thumb in that area of the park)

During a malfunction, guests got stuck at the top for the tune of 3+ hours.  Lots of bad press after that. All of the Windseekers in the chain shut down while Mondial developed the now-seen emergency exit platforms (prior to that incident, there was no way to get people off if the ride couldn't be lowered).

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1 hour ago, grsupercity said:

There is a special place in hell for people who move next door to place that has been around 100 years and then complain about it 

They are putting an almost 200-foot-tall coaster element 4 blocks away from the current edge of the actual theme park and really close to private homes. Knott's owns the property, you can make that argument and you're not wrong but I feel like they'd have a more legitimate complaint than the people who complained about say... Falcon's Fury.

Jew is the expert on this though. If he says it's getting approved even if they bitch then it's probably getting approved even if they bitch.

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17 hours ago, coasternut said:

I too would really love this to happen. There are 2 reasons why it won't.

1. NEIGHBORS

 

 

actually right there with you on this.

I think it would be incredible if it happens?  but I don't think it will.

here in Austin, our entertainment district is downtown in the 6th street area.  (it's a pretty well known area, famous for the live music and shows).
and yet. . in the 90's-2000's people moved into the lofts above the bars.

and then started complaining about the noise from the bars & live music venues.

and the city started lowering Noise ordinances, and hours the venues could operate.

best example?  one of my favorite live music Venues - with a large outdoor stage. . used to be across the street from a Milk Processing Factory.    About 10 years ago, they shut down the Factory, tore it down and built condos - that now overlook the outdoor stage.   And any live music on the outdoor stage now has to be finished by 10pm Sun-Thurs, and 11pm on Fri/Sat.

it really sucks, as we used to have shows that extended well into the night. . but the new neighbors protested, and the City put in place noise restrictions.

 

so yeah. . have a feeling something similar is likely gonna happen here.

 

 

but I do hope it gets built

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Not sure how the planning process works in America, but is there not a process of due diligence to find out the likelihood of approval before putting the application in? It seems quite a time consuming and expensive process to design an entire roller coaster that so many enthusiasts are sure will never happen because of the location? I get that the idea of a 300ft coaster on a city block is pretty bonkers though.

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It can happen depending on the area and state of local politics, but I stand by the fact that if Jew says it's happening it's probably happening since I'm not an expert on this area specifically.

If this were California's Great America, locals could make their lives miserable and delay this like crazy.

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15 minutes ago, KarlaKoaster said:

Not sure how the planning process works in America, but is there not a process of due diligence to find out the likelihood of approval before putting the application in? It seems quite a time consuming and expensive process to design an entire roller coaster that so many enthusiasts are sure will never happen because of the location? I get that the idea of a 300ft coaster on a city block is pretty bonkers though.

I don't work for a coaster company, but it's unlikely that the park foots any of the bill for the design process (until the project is purchased). Generally it's a bidding process - here's what we've designed, here's how much it costs. Not - give us $20m and we'll design something for you. 

 

Again I'm not a designer in the coaster business, but that's generally how this works elsewhere. 

 

Keep in mind that these are just leaked docs. I wouldn't expect a company like CF to cancel a project after *announcement*. But until then, it's fair game. For other companies, I will believe it when I see it. Remember those RMC, s&s & Intamin colab skyscraper coasters from like 2015? I think 3 were officially announced but never built. Just because something has made it to paper, doesn't mean it will come to fruition. 

 

I have high hopes for CF and Knotts, my fingers are crossed. 

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This is a long shot, but.....

Is anyone NEAR to Knotts planning to visit before Sunday?
I ordered the holiday tshirt and pin, but my friend who lives in CA is unable to make it to the park.

I have the pdf with my order and barcode on it. I will pay to have it shipped to me here in Florida.

Just send me a private message and we can go from there.

Thanks!!

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4 hours ago, coasterbill said:

It can happen depending on the area and state of local politics, but I stand by the fact that if Jew says it's happening it's probably happening since I'm not an expert on this area specifically.

If this were California's Great America, locals could make their lives miserable and delay this like crazy.

Because the Bay Area is one of the few areas of the US that truly act like Euros when it comes to complaining about parks 

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8 hours ago, SteamedHams said:

Because the Bay Area is one of the few areas of the US that truly act like Euros when it comes to complaining about parks 

Great America had issues because the land was pubic land (owned by the city of Santa Clara) they were just leasing. Now cedar fair owns the property.

There will certainly be some angry neighbors at the city council meeting when this comes up for approval, but there is zero chance it will get denied. I have no inside information, but I would assume that Knotts already has everything they need ready to go, including an environmental impact report that includes a section on noise and noise abatement. 

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