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The Knott's Berry Farm (KBF) Discussion Thread

P. 630: Knott's Scary Farm 2021 mazes and shows revealed!

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Thanks for the photos. I am stoked for this repaint. I have some relatives who literally refer to the ride as "pink" because that is how well-known the faded color is. Only my earliest memory of visiting the park (circa 2004 when Silver Bullet was under construction) do I remember Xcelerator being remotely red! This is going to look so good.

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EEBC0FC1-D4A3-410F-BD5C-99A7CB2B2077.thumb.jpeg.8b0a6a88123b4f368c9ad1b5cd4967fd.jpeg

Going back to the Giga speculation, does anyone know what this building is? They finished building it just before the pandemic. It looks like a replacement building for something in the current backstage further leading me to believe they are trying to create some space back there. It’s a large barn looking building, that could be offices or storage space.

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That was a kitchen added for the picnic area back there.  I believe they used to wheel chicken, etc. under the tunnel from the main central production area, and this eliminated that need.

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2 hours ago, jazma said:

That was a kitchen added for the picnic area back there.  I believe they used to wheel chicken, etc. under the tunnel from the main central production area, and this eliminated that need.

Well crap, shoots my theory down!!

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I know everyone (myself included) wants a B&M Giga (or a Hyper for that matter) in the west, but can I just say that not only do I think this is not happening I also kinda hope it doesn't.

First off, I don't think this is happening. Period.

I think this for a few different reasons. Yeah, sure maybe Knott's could squeeze it in someway, but that's what they did with Silver Bullet and look how that turned out. Do you really want Cedar Fair to just "squeeze in" a giga? Doesn't sound like a winning idea to me. Next, Knott's seems to thrive on their nostalgia and appealing to that multi-generational demographic. Yes, B&M's have wide appeal, but not that wide an appeal. Think about all of Knott's additions the last 5+ years, all of them except Hangtime, have been geared either towards a wide multi-generational demographic, has played off nostalgia for the park and its history, or some combination of both. Cedar Fair tried the whole "build big coasters and thrill rides" thing in the late 90's/early 2000's, and I think they learned that that strategy just doesn't work with this park. Lastly, I'm sure Knott's already had had problems with noise and complaints from their neighbors, and I don't think those neighbors would appreciate the "B&M roar" all that much. In addition, if a hyper was "too expensive" for CGA, then there's no way it can be any cheaper for a giga at Knott's. I'm sorry, I know we all REALY want this to happen, but I just don't see it.

Secondly, even if this was happening I really wouldn't want it to. I think Cedar Fair did a lot of damage to the park during the early years of their ownership. Yes, GhostRider and Xcelerator look great to me, but when Cedar Fair deviated from that "heritage and history" motif that the park always seemed to had I think it took a lot out of the park and it's taken years for Cedar Fair to move to put some of it back in. I like the path they've had the last few years of refreshing and bringing back older parts of the park's history and working to continue the Knott family legacy, mixed with a sprinkle of the modern in the form of Hangtime and too a certain degree Voyage to the Iron Reef. I'd really like to see this trend continue and I'd like them to add more themed rides and doing what the farm has always done best, innovate with new ride models and theme park concepts (Corkscrew, Montezuma's Revenge, Wacky Soap Box Racers, Sky Cabin, Studio K, and Camp Snoopy, just to name a few from the park's past) tied to nostalgia focusing on heritage and history. In my mind, adding a B&M Giga just doesn't fit that mold. Yes, it would probably be great but I just don't see it being a good fit here.

Personally, if Cedar Fair did really want to add a B&M to Knott's, I'd want them to wait till they throw in the towel on Xcelerator and then put it back there as a sorta "back drop" to the Boardwalk area using space over and around the train tracks and the Charles Schultz Theater, coupled with a new take on the Wacky Soap Box Racers. I think that combo would work good, plus I think the hyper might have the wide enough appeal that could make it work at Knott's. But even that idea is such a long shot that I think it's nothing more than a pipe dream.

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4 hours ago, swfan1988 said:

I know everyone (myself included) wants a B&M Giga (or a Hyper for that matter) in the west, but can I just say that not only do I think this is not happening I also kinda hope it doesn't.

First off, I don't think this is happening. Period.

I think this for a few different reasons. Yeah, sure maybe Knott's could squeeze it in someway, but that's what they did with Silver Bullet and look how that turned out. Do you really want Cedar Fair to just "squeeze in" a giga? Doesn't sound like a winning idea to me. Next, Knott's seems to thrive on their nostalgia and appealing to that multi-generational demographic. Yes, B&M's have wide appeal, but not that wide an appeal. Think about all of Knott's additions the last 5+ years, all of them except Hangtime, have been geared either towards a wide multi-generational demographic, has played off nostalgia for the park and its history, or some combination of both. Cedar Fair tried the whole "build big coasters and thrill rides" thing in the late 90's/early 2000's, and I think they learned that that strategy just doesn't work with this park. Lastly, I'm sure Knott's already had had problems with noise and complaints from their neighbors, and I don't think those neighbors would appreciate the "B&M roar" all that much. In addition, if a hyper was "too expensive" for CGA, then there's no way it can be any cheaper for a giga at Knott's. I'm sorry, I know we all REALY want this to happen, but I just don't see it.

Secondly, even if this was happening I really wouldn't want it to. I think Cedar Fair did a lot of damage to the park during the early years of their ownership. Yes, GhostRider and Xcelerator look great to me, but when Cedar Fair deviated from that "heritage and history" motif that the park always seemed to had I think it took a lot out of the park and it's taken years for Cedar Fair to move to put some of it back in. I like the path they've had the last few years of refreshing and bringing back older parts of the park's history and working to continue the Knott family legacy, mixed with a sprinkle of the modern in the form of Hangtime and too a certain degree Voyage to the Iron Reef. I'd really like to see this trend continue and I'd like them to add more themed rides and doing what the farm has always done best, innovate with new ride models and theme park concepts (Corkscrew, Montezuma's Revenge, Wacky Soap Box Racers, Sky Cabin, Studio K, and Camp Snoopy, just to name a few from the park's past) tied to nostalgia focusing on heritage and history. In my mind, adding a B&M Giga just doesn't fit that mold. Yes, it would probably be great but I just don't see it being a good fit here.

Personally, if Cedar Fair did really want to add a B&M to Knott's, I'd want them to wait till they throw in the towel on Xcelerator and then put it back there as a sorta "back drop" to the Boardwalk area using space over and around the train tracks and the Charles Schultz Theater, coupled with a new take on the Wacky Soap Box Racers. I think that combo would work good, plus I think the hyper might have the wide enough appeal that could make it work at Knott's. But even that idea is such a long shot that I think it's nothing more than a pipe dream.

Ghostrider was the Knotts Family and not CF. If you want to believe what people are saying its location is going to be how is that going to do damage to any of what knotts is today? going over the backstage area and to the parking lot. I think putting something bigger in xcels spot would ruin the parks look more thing putting it on the other side of the park. The train tracks are a bigger headache to build around since you need a good amount of clearance due to how big the equipment is cant just add in a tunnel you need atlest 5ft on either side of the tracks and I dont know what the height clearance is needed the area is also used for cart access when the park is open.

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9 hours ago, swfan1988 said:

I know everyone (myself included) wants a B&M Giga (or a Hyper for that matter) in the west, but can I just say that not only do I think this is not happening I also kinda hope it doesn't.

First off, I don't think this is happening. Period.

I think this for a few different reasons. Yeah, sure maybe Knott's could squeeze it in someway, but that's what they did with Silver Bullet and look how that turned out. Do you really want Cedar Fair to just "squeeze in" a giga? Doesn't sound like a winning idea to me. Next, Knott's seems to thrive on their nostalgia and appealing to that multi-generational demographic. Yes, B&M's have wide appeal, but not that wide an appeal. Think about all of Knott's additions the last 5+ years, all of them except Hangtime, have been geared either towards a wide multi-generational demographic, has played off nostalgia for the park and its history, or some combination of both. Cedar Fair tried the whole "build big coasters and thrill rides" thing in the late 90's/early 2000's, and I think they learned that that strategy just doesn't work with this park. Lastly, I'm sure Knott's already had had problems with noise and complaints from their neighbors, and I don't think those neighbors would appreciate the "B&M roar" all that much. In addition, if a hyper was "too expensive" for CGA, then there's no way it can be any cheaper for a giga at Knott's. I'm sorry, I know we all REALY want this to happen, but I just don't see it.

Secondly, even if this was happening I really wouldn't want it to. I think Cedar Fair did a lot of damage to the park during the early years of their ownership. Yes, GhostRider and Xcelerator look great to me, but when Cedar Fair deviated from that "heritage and history" motif that the park always seemed to had I think it took a lot out of the park and it's taken years for Cedar Fair to move to put some of it back in. I like the path they've had the last few years of refreshing and bringing back older parts of the park's history and working to continue the Knott family legacy, mixed with a sprinkle of the modern in the form of Hangtime and too a certain degree Voyage to the Iron Reef. I'd really like to see this trend continue and I'd like them to add more themed rides and doing what the farm has always done best, innovate with new ride models and theme park concepts (Corkscrew, Montezuma's Revenge, Wacky Soap Box Racers, Sky Cabin, Studio K, and Camp Snoopy, just to name a few from the park's past) tied to nostalgia focusing on heritage and history. In my mind, adding a B&M Giga just doesn't fit that mold. Yes, it would probably be great but I just don't see it being a good fit here.

Personally, if Cedar Fair did really want to add a B&M to Knott's, I'd want them to wait till they throw in the towel on Xcelerator and then put it back there as a sorta "back drop" to the Boardwalk area using space over and around the train tracks and the Charles Schultz Theater, coupled with a new take on the Wacky Soap Box Racers. I think that combo would work good, plus I think the hyper might have the wide enough appeal that could make it work at Knott's. But even that idea is such a long shot that I think it's nothing more than a pipe dream.

Keep in mind that the CGA Hyper was probably "too expensive for the park it's going to" not just too expensive in general. Knott's has a much higher attendance than CGA and I have a feeling Cedar Fair would be much more willing to spend the big bucks at their highest earning park (because it's year round) than at CGA. Just like how they were willing to install Orion at KI. Also, the B&M roar is a choice. Silver Bullet is 100% quiet because it is filled with sand. I am confident that if this hyper or giga happens, in my wildest dreams, it will definitely be filled with sand and be pretty much silent except for rider screams (which I think is the bigger problem).

I think your point about them focusing on family and nostalgia lately is a much stronger argument against a hyper/giga. To be honest, I didn't even think HangTime would happen. When Boomerang was announced to be removed, I initially thought it would just be some more family rides or restaurant, etc. But nope, they crammed in their second tallest and second fastest coaster with 5 inversions and a thrilling appeal. Upon interviews at the ride's opening, park officials said "it was time to bring a new thrilling coaster to Knott's" and things like "we focused on families lately, this time we are doing a thrill ride." They know that they have a huge family demographic but they also have a teenage and thrilling demographic. If they can find a way to install a hyper (which I think is much more reasonable and likely... a giga larger than Fury, doubtful) and have it fit well into the area, not disturb the hotel or nearby residents, and have some theming in the station and queue area to tie into the atmosphere, it would be a wild success for the park.

Just some of my thoughts.

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I have more confidence in the team at Cedar Fair with each new big investment. Banshee stepped up the looks, Copperhead Strike is fantastic and fits well, Orion and Area 72 is a well rounded package, CGA's waterpark got an amazing refresh, and Tumbali + that area refresh should look good. 

Now more than ever I'd trust them to get the heritage right if they add a big B&M.

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9 hours ago, kbfbest said:

Ghostrider was the Knotts Family and not CF. 

Uhhh...the park was sold to Cedar Fair in 1997 and GhostRider opened (ahead of schedule) in December 1998. I've heard that the general idea for a wooden coaster was proposed and rejected by the Knott family, while Cedar Fair proposed and green lit the actual concept for GhostRider after the sale. I digress though.

4 hours ago, thrillseeker4552 said:

Keep in mind that the CGA Hyper was probably "too expensive for the park it's going to" not just too expensive in general. Knott's has a much higher attendance than CGA and I have a feeling Cedar Fair would be much more willing to spend the big bucks at their highest earning park (because it's year round) than at CGA. Just like how they were willing to install Orion at KI. Also, the B&M roar is a choice. Silver Bullet is 100% quiet because it is filled with sand. I am confident that if this hyper or giga happens, in my wildest dreams, it will definitely be filled with sand and be pretty much silent except for rider screams (which I think is the bigger problem).

I think your point about them focusing on family and nostalgia lately is a much stronger argument against a hyper/giga. To be honest, I didn't even think HangTime would happen. When Boomerang was announced to be removed, I initially thought it would just be some more family rides or restaurant, etc. But nope, they crammed in their second tallest and second fastest coaster with 5 inversions and a thrilling appeal. Upon interviews at the ride's opening, park officials said "it was time to bring a new thrilling coaster to Knott's" and things like "we focused on families lately, this time we are doing a thrill ride." They know that they have a huge family demographic but they also have a teenage and thrilling demographic. If they can find a way to install a hyper (which I think is much more reasonable and likely... a giga larger than Fury, doubtful) and have it fit well into the area, not disturb the hotel or nearby residents, and have some theming in the station and queue area to tie into the atmosphere, it would be a wild success for the park.

Just some of my thoughts.

That is true that the hyper was probably too expensive for CGA, but maybe not for Knott's. Still I think the cost calculation will keep CF away from a giga leaving us with a hyper at best. I also think cost is why they won't try and send it over buildings and instead try and squeeze it into the park somehow. I think you are on to something with the balance between families and thrills, that something that I think Knott's does really well, and something a B&M hyper would be a great fit for.

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On 11/16/2021 at 1:00 AM, KnottsBerryMountain said:

Looks like the track is being repainted red instead of the original coral color. Interested in seeing if the trains get some new colors.

It's funny, because the coral always just looks like faded red to me. 

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1 hour ago, swfan1988 said:

Uhhh...the park was sold to Cedar Fair in 1997 and GhostRider opened (ahead of schedule) in December 1998. I've heard that the general idea for a wooden coaster was proposed and rejected by the Knott family, while Cedar Fair proposed and green lit the actual concept for GhostRider after the sale. I digress though.

That is true that the hyper was probably too expensive for CGA, but maybe not for Knott's. Still I think the cost calculation will keep CF away from a giga leaving us with a hyper at best. I also think cost is why they won't try and send it over buildings and instead try and squeeze it into the park somehow. I think you are on to something with the balance between families and thrills, that something that I think Knott's does really well, and something a B&M hyper would be a great fit for.

Ghostrider was 100% the Knott’s family that greenlit the project. It was their last gift to the park before they sold.

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50 minutes ago, Animal said:

Ghostrider was 100% the Knott’s family that greenlit the project. It was their last gift to the park before they sold.

I stand corrected, my apologies. Thank you for the insight!

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On another topic, I may have the opportunity to visit this park December 10th/11th.  Is it safe to assume that, as a year-round-park, everything runs during Knott's Merry Farm (except of course whatever rides are closed for refurbishment)? I know I'll miss out on Xcelerator, but this is the only time I could make it work and I just have this feeling that Montezooma doesn't have long to live and want to get on the only Scwarzkopf shuttle loop left in the US.

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16 minutes ago, Mike240SX said:

On another topic, I may have the opportunity to visit this park December 10th/11th.  Is it safe to assume that, as a year-round-park, everything runs during Knott's Merry Farm (except of course whatever rides are closed for refurbishment)? I know I'll miss out on Xcelerator, but this is the only time I could make it work and I just have this feeling that Montezooma doesn't have long to live and want to get on the only Scwarzkopf shuttle loop left in the US.

Yes everything runs.

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Why do a lot of people seem to think that knotts cant move the backstage area somewhere else? the stagecoach barns are already on the other side of La Palma and they need to cross it to enter the park. I just saw a post somewhere else that knotts scrapped locomotive 41 since they haven't seen it in a few years but the seem to miss the fact that you can see it if you know where to look.  

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on Thursday they had two teams painting Xcelerator with lifts.

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There was another team at the other end of the track.

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It looked like they were using paint rollers and a bucket.  20211118_135055.thumb.jpg.d567abca1134a220ab756bac23413b04.jpg

And the lucky BBQ meal of the day was flank steak with White Claw Black Cherry.

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Do we really need Robb to come back and school people on the "park A is landlocked and outta room" nonsense? 

Do we really think the park is like, " welp, that's it guys, we're done"? "Hope they like Hangtime, cause that's as good as it gets"!

If the park decides to add another large steel coaster, whether it's 2023 or 2030, they will find a way to do it. Knott's has been very creative when adding attractions. From Ghostrider to Xcel to Silver Bullet...I trust they will continue to find unique ways to get in large attractions.

And I'll just say, there is more than one way to build a 300ft attraction (if the park actually has any interest in that). There are people within these companies who's entire job is to get around limitations.

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1 hour ago, Manic Monte said:

Do we really need Robb to come back and school people on the "park A is landlocked and outta room" nonsense? 

Do we really think the park is like, " welp, that's it guys, we're done"? "Hope they like Hangtime, cause that's as good as it gets"!

If the park decides to add another large steel coaster, whether it's 2023 or 2030, they will find a way to do it. Knott's has been very creative when adding attractions. From Ghostrider to Xcel to Silver Bullet...I trust they will continue to find unique ways to get in large attractions.

And I'll just say, there is more than one way to build a 300ft attraction (if the park actually has any interest in that). There are people within these companies who's entire job is to get around limitations.

Well said.

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Exactly, if Cedar Fair wants to put a Giga in their highest revenue park, they will find a way to do it.  Personally, I love the look of Silver Bullet looming over the entrance of the park.  CF had done a great job over the last 20 years of keeping up the Knotts charm and nostalgia while adding rides to stay competitive in a tough market.  I think a Giga would be a great addition to the park and would really round out the coaster collection.

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To anyone that says Knott’s has no room, I have outlined all of their property. Seems like a Ton of room to grow. Anyone ever heard of parking structures??? And as I see it the only way Knott’s can expand at this point is go into the backstage and parking lot areas. I really don’t see any expendable area of the park at this point. Camp Snoopy and ghost town are untouchable. There’s no where to go in the boardwalk unless you rip out Xcelerator (not happening). So that leaves fiesta village. If you rip out Jaguar, it really doesn’t creat much space. If you rip out the small flats on the edge of the park you could maybe add a new flat. My point is, Knott’s has to keep adding new rides and experiences. With Disney, SFMM, Universal, and even Legoland and Seaworld SD constantly adding new rides Knott’s can’t just sit back and be content. I really only see them expanding outward and honestly I think it’s about time!!!

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Theme Park Review was invited to the first official day of Knott's Merry Farm!  You will definitely need more than one day/night to see all the shows and more days to eat all the unique food items.  I was overwhelmed seeing all the Merry Farm food laid out.  There is just so much!  There's also quite a bit of merchandise as well.  I'll probably pick up the water bottle this weekend.   Snoopy Ice Show: Merry Christmas, Snoopy! is back, and awesome as ever.   I believe they are only filling the theater half full, without any social distancing.  So, get there early for any of the shows.  Here's some pics...

 

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A huge thanks to Knott's Berry Farm!  The whole park was just outstanding!

 

 

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