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Cedar Point (CP) Discussion Thread

p. 2030 - Top Thrill 2 announced!

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I think if CP wanted to convert the ride to LSM (and it could be done) - they would do it. Regardless of any potential infrastructure challenges. 

 

I doubt they're converting it to an LSM launch, but maybe the technology has evolved to a point where they could do that. 

 

Regardless, wasn't the accident related to a brake fin? Wouldn't it make more sense to convert the brake system? Just leave the sort-of-reliable launch system in place? 

 

In order to reopen TTD as is (as was) would mean to fix the ride so that the brake fin system couldn't fail again. My guess is that they couldn't do that, or didn't want to do that. Hence TTD being converted into Top Thrill Observation Tower. 

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The problem wasn't the brakes, it was the flag plate on the train detaching. It damaged brake fins, but they weren't the issue. The brake run fins that were damaged are stationary and should have been quickly and easily replaced and recalibrated if they were just "fixing" the issues from the accident.

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^ This. My assumption is that they took this as an opportunity to evaluate everything about the ride even if it had nothing to do with the accident and weigh the costs / liabilities and headaches with ROI and guest satisfaction.

I was dead wrong, I expected them to do the absolute bare minimum and keep on chugging along with an unreliable and expensive (but popular) ride. I'm impressed that they're (seemingly) going beyond that. I guess they don't want to throw a ton of money at fixing this issue just so they can wait for next year's unrelated customary breakdown that makes the news and takes a month to fix, only so it can go back to only being closed 25-50% of every other operating day once it reopens.

It's also possible that they're doing something that they've wanted to do for years that may lead to long-term cost savings and more uptime but never did it before because it's a time consuming fix and they didn't want to take the ride down.

Who knows?

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This could be just my perception, not reality, but it over the years I don’t recall nearly as many issues with the structure compared to the launch system. Hydraulic launch aside, I’d be curious the remaining lifespan of the tower which has been fairly reliable given the other issues with the coaster. 
 

In any regard, I paid $215 for my wicked twister slice. I really hope they don’t repeat the same pricing exercise when Dragster’s true final day actually comes. 

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2 hours ago, Skysthelimit said:

In any regard, I paid $215 for my wicked twister slice. I really hope they don’t repeat the same pricing exercise when Dragster’s true final day actually comes. 

They'd charge $300 for a dragster slice today. In a few years with inflation, it'd only go up.

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Well, I initially thought they would re-evaluate the ride and make serious changes to the launch.... knowing full-well that had nothing to do with the accident, but when I re-viewed the capacity and maintenance logs disclosed in the state investigation you could tell this ride was a maintenance HEADACHE with very, very low capacity.  So, it makes complete sense to consider what to do with it.  But then lots of people made valid comments about the expense of all that... and would it pay off?  Then I saw what they are doing to Montezoomas revenge, and that, on the surface, seemed to have as little economic sense as TTD re-do. .... Now I'm just confused.  but it's cools that CF leadership is interested in not just abandoning historic rides.

The obvious thing is to (somehow) convert it to LSM launch -- I just forget the math on whether they can reliably get it up to speed with a Ferrari World-type launch on the TTD launch length (is length the sole limiting factor or does the technology somehow tap out at a given speed?)- there is a substantial amount of post-launch straight track at the end of the launch and one could put LSM partially up the hill.  That seems to be quickest way to resolve the issue.  The reverse spike/launch idea seems way to complicated - not only are you building the spike, installing the LSM system, but you also now need to slide the station over or otherwise reconfigure the connection from the reverse spike to the launch because of capacity problems -  I don't think they could launch 24-person  (or bigger capacity) trains and the tophat wasn't configured for a long train?

For me, the true dream is that they will repurpose the enormous top hat for a full circuit conventional coaster - somehow get a near-vertical lift up there and then build off the break run out toward the lagoons or something (I know, will NOT happen....)

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1 hour ago, TurnOfTheCentury said:

I just forget the math on whether they can reliably get it up to speed with a Ferrari World-type launch on the TTD launch length (is length the sole limiting factor or does the technology somehow tap out at a given speed?)

This is one of those things that I just ignore, not because it's necessarily wrong but it just strikes me as one of those things that someone said once and everyone just took it as gospel forever. None of us have any clue what the limitations are, and technology is always evolving. I'm sure it's possible if they want to do it. They can even put LIMs up a curved hill if they want to, Intamin does it all the time.

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I thought LSMs would've been impossible on the amount of track they have before heading uphill, but eltororyan's video says I'm dead wrong. I didn't realize how little of the track the hydraulic launch actually uses.

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Such an iconic station to me :(

 

I remember my first ride on TTD. My best friend I (back in my high school days) went to cedar point together back in 07. We risked the ride going down (again) to sit in the front row and do it right. What a rush that was. Only got 3 or 4 rides on that trip. 

 

Only been back twice since then, really wish I could get on it again. 

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11 minutes ago, tndank said:

Construction walls now surround TTD's station and area around it.

 

Wait for the RMC trucks to start rolling in. 😂 Their first steel refurb!

Everyone else is spouting wild and crazy ideas, thought I'd put on my tinfoil (top) hat and watch too. 

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3 hours ago, coasterbill said:

This is one of those things that I just ignore, not because it's necessarily wrong but it just strikes me as one of those things that someone said once and everyone just took it as gospel forever. None of us have any clue what the limitations are, and technology is always evolving. I'm sure it's possible if they want to do it. They can even put LIMs up a curved hill if they want to, Intamin does it all the time.

Yeah, I agree.   I don't doubt they can find the length.  Just not sure the technology can get it up to 120mph or whatever (I bet it can - I just don't know of any ride that uses LSMs to achieve that speed - doesn't mean they couldn't.  It's only about 10 mph more than the Ferrari LSM coaster in Spain).  What I do have some doubts about is whether CF is willing to go right out to the cutting edge AGAIN with Intamin on LSM technology, on the SAME Ride when they went cutting edge and paid a steep price.....

But, given speculation is fun, I think they will simply keep the same ride profile, maybe change trains (lighter trains?), and essentially just replace the launch system and move the line . . ..  (Maybe fancy enclosed light show like Montezooma?)

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Thoughts of LSM limitations in terms of achievable speed are pretty moot. LSMs have been used in maglev high speed rail for years and have hit speeds over 300mph. The key is how much space is needed to achieve the desired speed, and whether or not TTD has that space.

To me, since speed is achievable and space is the concern, the sheer length comparison between Red Force and TTD's launch section leads me to think that it should definitely be possible to bridge 8mph difference without too much issue.

Trains would definitely need replaced with lighter, permanent magnet mounted versions.

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There are two big LSM providers in the industry.  Indrivetec who is used by Intamin, and Intrasys who is used by the majority of the rest of the industry.  Indrivetec did Red Force.  Intrasys typically uses parallel rows of stators, for instance Thunderbird at Holiday World uses two rows of stators and that is a very heavy train.

My understanding is that you can just keep adding rows of stators as long as you have the proper spacing between them and room under the train for the permanent magnets.  I would bet Intrasys could build a launch with 3 rows of stators that could easily power even a 20 person train to 120 MPH, it might not be as short as the current TTD launch, but it does not need to be because there is a lot of space available.

Intamin very recently removed Dragster from their website.  I suspect whatever is being done, Cedar Fair hired someone else to do the work.  I cannot help but wonder if they talked B&M into designing custom trains, maybe something like the trains on Steel Dragon 2000, just 5 cars long.

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9 hours ago, BotanicalStig said:

Meh. $250 or $300 maybe. I'll still buy one. 

 

Really not much for something if it has great sentimental value to you. I love my WT piece. 

I was referencing the fact that they priced WT based on the track heigh ($215 / 215 feet tall), meaning that dragster will be $420 🤣

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30 minutes ago, CoasterKid93 said:

Guys my friend's Dad works for Intamin and they said they're gonna install a compressed air launch. 0-135 in 0.8 seconds. -2.5gs over the top hat.

Thank you for your insights. Thread closed. Sarcasm off.

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