Cedar Point (CP) Discussion Thread

[singemfrc]

I was surprised, after talking with a few enthusiast friends we all unanimously agreed that a GCI would be preferred over RMC on Mean Streak. I did not expect that to be honest.

 

I just think Cedar Point needs *legit* wood... They have enough steel coasters and its time to build up the wood... While RMC would be simply awesome, a standard GCI would be ideal IMO. With a 48" height requirement as well would add another family type ride in the lineup as well, if not 46" (are any GCI's 46"?)

 

Plus, just to think.... The RMC treatment of Texas Giant cost $10mil... A brand new mid to large-size GCI would be around the same cost at around $8-10 million.

 

They could do BOTH for less than most modern steel coasters in the $18-20 million range. So why not go for it?

GCI has been doing some good stuff lately. Gold Striker at CGA is an absolutely amazing ride. Hauls ass with tons of air time and it never slows down. They showed you can still make a world class coaster without gimmicks, like classic coasters used to be designed. I honestly think its in the top 2 or 3 of non-inverting wooden coasters in the country.

 

Oh and it's SMOOTH! The new trains are very comfortable, I marathoned it for hours with no discomfort at all.

[gerstlaueringvar]

But I don't think GCI can make it to Mitch Hawker's top three with a price of $10 million like RMC. And from what I know, RMC also wins in the cost of maintainence. Plus, Alan did not say they cannot make a topper track refurb to an existing woodie

 

I think the main problem is that Cedar Fair might need a couple of years to make sure they are not making a mistake starting their business with RMC.

[Vonni]

^ I wonder how much more proof CF needs? lol!

[RCjunkie]

I just think Cedar Point needs *legit* wood... They have enough steel coasters and its time to build up the wood... While RMC would be simply awesome, a standard GCI would be ideal IMO.

 

Testify! CP does need some 'legit' wood for a park of that caliber. It's the one area where the smaller CF parks GA, VF and WOF are better than CP due to their GCI coasters. I would hope CP would go big as usual and get a record breaking RMC to top Goliath at SFGA.

[Double0Kevin]

^^ From a business standpoint, RMC has real only been around for 3 or 4 years in the capacity of making coasters (I know they've been refurbing rides longer) and in that 4 years there has already been a death on one of their rides. Do I think it was their fault? Absolutely not, but Cedar Fair may want a little more reassurance. I don't think it will be long before CF makes the leap and adds some RMC rides.

[Philrad71]

I was surprised, after talking with a few enthusiast friends we all unanimously agreed that a GCI would be preferred over RMC on Mean Streak. I did not expect that to be honest.

 

I just think Cedar Point needs *legit* wood... They have enough steel coasters and its time to build up the wood... While RMC would be simply awesome, a standard GCI would be ideal IMO. With a 48" height requirement as well would add another family type ride in the lineup as well, if not 46" (are any GCI's 46"?)

 

Plus, just to think.... The RMC treatment of Texas Giant cost $10mil... A brand new mid to large-size GCI would be around the same cost at around $8-10 million.

 

They could do BOTH for less than most modern steel coasters in the $18-20 million range. So why not go for it?

GCI has been doing some good stuff lately. Gold Striker at CGA is an absolutely amazing ride. Hauls A$$ with tons of air time and it never slows down. They showed you can still make a world class coaster without gimmicks, like classic coasters used to be designed. I honestly think its in the top 2 or 3 of non-inverting wooden coasters in the country.

 

Oh and it's SMOOTH! The new trains are very comfortable, I marathoned it for hours with no discomfort at all.

 

 

The trick is to make them run that way for many years. I would think that that's the difficult part for any coaster manufacturer. I certainly hope that all GCI's hold up more like Thunderhead and Lightning Racer and not like Gwazi or Roar!

 

Several have mentioned Mean Streak as one of the roughest coasters out there, yet I know from experience that it really was as smooth as what you're describing Gold Striker now - even though they are different manufacturers. Mean Streak has not aged well just as hundreds of other wooden (and even steel) coasters haven't.

 

Take for example, folks that rode the wooden coasters at Holiday World during their inaugural years and then went back and rode them in 2012 or 2013. I'm sure most will say that there was a very noticeable difference in smoothness in all three of their wooden coasters.

 

I had heard nothing but great things about these coasters for the first couple of years after they opened, but when we rode them this year I thought that they were some of the roughest wooden coasters that I had ever ridden in my life. Riding the Voyage as our first coaster did my partner in for the rest of the day with coasters at that park...he wouldn't ride Legend or Raven after riding Voyage and was even reluctant to ride the wooden one's at Indiana Beach the next evening.

 

I know that there are several younger folks that would disagree with my comments on the Holiday World coasters (as well as Mean Streak), but all I have to say is wait until you're over 40 and then see how well you do on some of those rough wooden coasters. I'm going to tell you right now, your body ain't gonna like it one bit!

[coasterlover420]

^Three words: P-T-C

 

I assume you are talking about Roar at SFA not at SFDK. Roar and Gwazi operated with PTC trains and it's been mentioned several times by park owners and manufacturers that these types of trains absolutely destroy wooden coaster track. The reason GCI coasters age well now are the Millennium Flyers (same for GG's new trains). They are designed to compliment the wooden structure and to have less wear and tear over time. There's definitely an effect that any train will have on wood track, but PTC trains are absolutely terrible. Re-tracking can only go so far if a coaster still operates PTC trains, because in the long run, they'll just destroy the track all over again. That's why Holiday World experimented extensively with new timberliner trains for Voyage, but I guess for some reason they decided it wouldn't work. I personally think if Mean Streak was re-tracked the way Voyage was (with the minuscule adjustments mentioned by Chad Miller in this video) and redone with timberliner or millennium flyer trains, it would be a wonderful experience.

[GigaG]

^Three words: P-T-C

 

I assume you are talking about Roar at SFA not at SFDK. Roar and Gwazi operated with PTC trains and it's been mentioned several times by park owners and manufacturers that these types of trains absolutely destroy wooden coaster track. The reason GCI coasters age well now are the Millennium Flyers (same for GG's new trains). They are designed to compliment the wooden structure and to have less wear and tear over time. There's definitely an effect that any train will have on wood track, but PTC trains are absolutely terrible. Re-tracking can only go so far if a coaster still operates PTC trains, because in the long run, they'll just destroy the track all over again. That's why Holiday World experimented extensively with new timberliner trains for Voyage, but I guess for some reason they decided it wouldn't work. I personally think if Mean Streak was re-tracked the way Voyage was (with the minuscule adjustments mentioned by Chad Miller in this video) and redone with timberliner or millennium flyer trains, it would be a wonderful experience.

 

Then why did PTC have a virtual monopoly on woodie trains? Why didn't anybody come up with a solution (any by this I mean not as proprietary as the Millenium Flyers.)

[christianscoasters]

^Because they've been in business for over 100 years. When they started, coasters weren't very big, they weren't as crazy, and not as advanced as they are today. It's also fairly recent that the "large" wooden coasters we know of today are becoming very aged. Unless something goes horribly wrong, a brand new wooden coaster is not going to be rough in its opening season, even with PTC trains. Over time, it will tear up the track. If a park opens up a successful wooden coaster, other parks will eventually follow suit. It isn't until several years down the road that they will see that the PTC's tear up the track enormously. You could also say that parks understood that they will have excessive maintenance on wood coasters. If PTC trains were the standard, then they probably already knew the upkeep will be a lot. There really was no need for newer trains if parks understood they'll have to maintain them well.

[Koasterking48]

personally think if Mean Streak was re-tracked the way Voyage was (with the minuscule adjustments mentioned by Chad Miller)

Retracking this boring ride in the fashion of the Voyage's retracking is pointless IMO. The ride is just not exciting regardless of how rough it is.

[Rollercoaster Rider]

^Because they've been in business for over 100 years. When they started, coasters weren't very big, they weren't as crazy, and not as advanced as they are today. It's also fairly recent that the "large" wooden coasters we know of today are becoming very aged. Unless something goes horribly wrong, a brand new wooden coaster is not going to be rough in its opening season, even with PTC trains. Over time, it will tear up the track. If a park opens up a successful wooden coaster, other parks will eventually follow suit. It isn't until several years down the road that they will see that the PTC's tear up the track enormously. You could also say that parks understood that they will have excessive maintenance on wood coasters. If PTC trains were the standard, then they probably already knew the upkeep will be a lot. There really was no need for newer trains if parks understood they'll have to maintain them well.

 

 

Gerstlauer trains aren't perfect either.

[coasterlover420]

^Because they've been in business for over 100 years. When they started, coasters weren't very big, they weren't as crazy, and not as advanced as they are today. It's also fairly recent that the "large" wooden coasters we know of today are becoming very aged.

I agree, but just to add to this:

There has also been a large revolution in the maneuvers wooden coasters are capable of. In the words of Robb, they're becoming more "Twisty." This is quite evident just by looking at the previous titan of wood coasters, CCI. If you look at any wood coaster by CCI, you can tell the banking is much more gradual, often resulting in odd laterals, but still offering a type of track that PTC trains are much more capable of. Once GCI and GG started making coasters that made quicker banks and turns and pulled higher g forces, we started to see these coasters get torn up much more quickly than previous woodies. Articulating trains were the answer.

 

Then why did PTC have a virtual monopoly on woodie trains? Why didn't anybody come up with a solution (any by this I mean not as proprietary as the Millenium Flyers.)

In your own words. PTC DID have a monopoly. Not anymore. Wooden coasters started evolving. PTC trains did not. I really don't predict any new wooden coasters being manufactured with them, at least in the US. RMC has their trains, GCI has Millennium Flyers, GG has Timberliners, Intamin has their trains...

 

Retracking this boring ride in the fashion of the Voyage's retracking is pointless IMO. The ride is just not exciting regardless of how rough it is.

Mean Streak is heavily trimmed (as though nobody has noticed). With a smooth track, the trims could easily be removed and the coaster would be way more fun. I speak from experience, having ridden Mean Streak trimless many times. It's way more fun, despite the spinal readjustment.

[gerstlaueringvar]

But base on my experience on the Timberliner train on Hades, it was by far the worst coaster experience... Timberliner train still lacksexperience on new major woodies, I believe all new GG woodies in China would be using PTC trains.

 

How did Intamin train work on Coaster Express? Does Premier still sell their wooden coaster trains?

[Koasterking48]

^^ You're not really understanding what I'm saying. The layout of the ride is boring! Minor readjustments won't change the layout drastically so that's why I said it was pointless. And I, too, have ridden this thing trimless. Yes, it was smoother, but it never was what I consider a good coaster. I'm sure opening year was the best as it was running at its prime.

[traincrossin]

I actually had my first enjoyable ride on Mean Streak this year. It had just opened up after the rain and that was the smoothest ride I've ever had on it, and I was sitting in the back too. Even then, I didn't think it was a great ride, I just don't see many redeeming values in it besides its length. No airtime and it's fairly rough. I really would love to see a RMC renovation of it because I think it could be a lot better than its current state and they could significantly reduce the maintenance costs of the ride.

[BigDipper 80]

I do have to hand it to CF for doing some great retracking work on their big wooden coasters. Beast ran phenomenally this past season, and Mean Streak has been a lot smoother over the past couple of seasons. But to echo everyone else, MS isn't a good ride. It's got a gorgeous structure, certainly, but it meanders in and around itself without really doing anything exciting. I'd be fine if they tore it down and expanded Camper Village or expanded Frontiertown further out and added a Splash Battle or some other family rides.

[coasternut]

^ Nooo, if they tear it down (I'm hoping), they need to add a GCI Woodie. I love the Blue Streak , but they need a good big Woodie!

[cfc]

^ Nooo, if they tear it down (I'm hoping), they need to add an Intamin or RMC Woodie. I love the Blue Streak , but they need a good big Woodie!

 

Fixed.

[traincrossin]

Blue Streak has more airtime than Millennium Force.

[DJeXeL]

^True story.

[rcjp]

^^ MF basically has 4 airtime moments, only one of which actually provides some decent air (the last small hill). The drop and two big hills didn't really give me much negatives when I rode it, even though it was running a lot better in the afternoon than in the morning.

[coasternut]

I'm utterly amazed looking at the previous 3 posts on Blue Streak. I've made this comment on my love of Blue Streak, and was slammed for it. It's my favorite ride in the park because of the airtime, comfortable seats, and normally no lines.

[kidcoaster 2]

^ Agreed with everything you just said, each visit I make it a point to ride it several times!

[coasterfreak101]

I remember riding Blue Streak last year at Coastermania, I think just after they replaced the trains over the off-season, and it was absolutely amazing. Much better than I remembered it from just the year before - it felt fast and totally out-of-control from the top of the lift to the brakes at the end!

[coasternut]

I hope they do something special for it's 50th birthday in 2014!