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Kings Island (KI) Discussion Thread

p. 832: Camp Snoopy announced for 2024!

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You're acting like the park owes you something.

 

No, I'm acting like this is the exact same ride I can go on in many different parks throughout the US or North America, or the World: hell, even pretty much in the exact same park, which is why there's no incentive to visit once this ride opens.

 

You know it, I know it, Robb Alvey knows it, people who consistently ride coasters know it. Hell, even my family and friends know this B&M cookie cutter crap just does not cut it or warrants additional visits to the park. Orion is a Mako, Diamondback, Fury, Leviathon, Behemoth, blah blah blah all the same. Trim brakes on airtime hills, blah blah blah all the same. This is the same crap B&M has been doing for about 20 years now. Enough is enough.

 

Parks dropping $20+ Million on coasters need to do better than this, because it's a joke, and I don't know why that is a problem for some of you "enthusiasts" to hope for instead of applauding the next turd they crap out. And I don't know why wanting parks to create better rides than this is frowned upon. Yeah I'm critical of ride additions at times, I think Kings Island could have created a much better ride experience than this for the money, and I think they should have instead of just bending over to the constituency!

 

I don't see why there's anything wrong with having that opinion.

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KI fanboys: *chanting* "We want a giga! We want a giga!"

Kings Island: "You wanted it.... you got it!"

KI fanboys: "No inversion? No world record? No vertical drop? No thanks!"

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not sure if you can create a poll on here, but curious what the general TPR thoughts are in terms of B&M giga rankings, with the announcement of orion last night. obviously nobody has ridden orion yet, but based on the POV/layout, i would rank them as:

 

1. fury 325

2. leviathan

3. orion

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You're acting like the park owes you something.

 

No, I'm acting like this is the exact same ride I can go on in many different parks throughout the US or North America, or the World: hell, even pretty much in the exact same park, which is why there's no incentive to visit once this ride opens.

 

You know it, I know it, Robb Alvey knows it, people who consistently ride coasters know it. Hell, even my family and friends know this B&M cookie cutter crap just does not cut it or warrants additional visits to the park. Orion is a Mako, Diamondback, Fury, Leviathon, Behemoth, blah blah blah all the same. Trim brakes on airtime hills, blah blah blah all the same. This is the same crap B&M has been doing for about 20 years now. Enough is enough.

 

Parks dropping $20+ Million on coasters need to do better than this, because it's a joke, and I don't know why that is a problem for some of you "enthusiasts" to hope for instead of applauding the next turd they crap out. And I don't know why wanting parks to create better rides than this is frowned upon. Yeah I'm critical of ride additions at times, I think Kings Island could have created a much better ride experience than this for the money, and I think they should have instead of just bending over to the constituency!

 

I don't see why there's anything wrong with having that opinion.

 

Im with you on this, I havent ridden a ton of B&M's, but watching some POV's they all seem pretty much the same with a few exceptions.

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^^^^ Oh look it's that guy who has an unreasonable amount of hatred for everything B&M again. Glad I'm not that guy. Glad I'm not so jaded that I can't enjoy a 300 foot tall coaster because it's made by the "wrong" company.

 

^ I personally think it's pointless to rank stuff before you've even had a chance to ride it but you do you, man.

 

Can't wait for Orion!

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I think some people are in the wrong hobby. Parks aren’t going to splurge on the Intamin 30000 hyper launch coaster Xtreme with 40 hours of airtime because that’s what enthusiasts want. Parks are going for crowd pleasers, people movers and an overall experience. Hate all you want but B&Ms are well loved by the GP and probably even more well loved by parks because they’re reliable and can move thousands of people an hour and don’t require insane upkeep. If that upsets you, then cry all you want about it, but just remember parks do NOT give a single crap about what YOU want.

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probably even more well loved by parks because they’re reliable and can move thousands of people an hour and don’t require insane upkeep.

This. A few years ago at WCB the Knott's maintenance team were saying Silver Bullet is their favourite ride in the park because B&M makes it so easy to maintain and provides manuals for everything.

 

When people drive for hours for that once a year theme park day, they definitely want the new ride they've seen advertised everywhere to be running. Kings Island needs those people to go back home and tell everyone how awesome their day at Kings Island was so that other people want to make that drive too. That's who they're building this for.

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I saw the announcement in my YouTube sub box this morning and I immediately thought "Oh God, this thread is gonna suuuuck today."

 

In all seriousness, this thing looks amazing. The layout looks stupid good, the theme is really cool, and the color scheme is just stunning. This looks like a huge win for the park! I may head back to Columbus next year to check it out, but also because Columbus is an awesome city and I wanna go back.

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I think this looks great! I haven't been to KI since Banshee was new (Thanks TPR and Banshee Bash!!,) and this, along with Mystic Timbers (and the ever amazing Beast night rides) might definitely get me out there next year.

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. This looks like a huge win for the park! I may head back to Columbus next year to check it out, but also because Columbus is an awesome city and I wanna go back.

 

I'm sure you know this and Columbus is only about 90 mins from KI but KI is near Cincinnati, not Columbus. lol

 

As for the ride itself, I love it. I don't get the hate when so many enthusiasts LOVE I305 and the stats are similar on paper. This ride will be fast and haul through the course and probably leave you with a "WTF just happened" experience. That fact that this hobby has turned into entitlement and disappointment over a 300' tall ride that goes 90+ mph is just sad. I know majority of comments on this forum are positive but man the internet trolls are toxic.

 

I've been keeping my fingers crossed for a KI Giga since I305 was announced and we finally got it. I'm super stoked and will definitely make a couple drives down to KI in 2020.

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To address some of the hate...

 

Parks shouldn't be building coasters for enthusiasts. They should be building coasters that bring money/GP into the parks. This is a great ride for that. Just because it isn't some record breaking super intamin Giga doesn't mean we shouldn't go ride it and have fun, it just means we won't have to ride it as much and let the GP have their fun too! You really can't complain about a smooth, nice, 300' ride. It could be a lot worse! It could be some rough ass SLC, Zamperla contraption or something terrible.

 

This hobby has to remain FUN and positive. I can't tell you how much more I've enjoyed our trips and park visits since I stopped counting 'credits' and stopped riding crap! I wish that I could convince all of the enthusiasts to do the same and it would really improve your park time!

 

 

Oh - And you all should have known that Cedar Point wouldn't actually let Kings Island get anything that would outshine them!

Edited by SharkTums
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This is a great ride for that. Just because it isn't some record breaking super intamin Giga doesn't mean we shouldn't go ride it and have fun, it just means we won't have to ride it as much and let the GP have their fun too! You really can't complain about a smooth, nice, 300' ride. It could be a lot worse! It could be some rough ass SLC, Zamperla contraption or something terrible.

THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS!!!

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I don’t think it’s showing “hate” to point out that this is a downgrade in every way from the other older B&M Gigas. Fury showed that they can do massive steeper drops and the ride doesn’t have to end 100’ up with a mile long brake run.

 

This will be a fine ride... but when you’re spending this many millions it seems odd to aim for fine rather than “holy f***” like Fury or i305 (admittedly I can see why no one will build another i305 tho).

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Looks pretty cool, and never look a Giga gift horse in the mouth.

I enjoy B&Ms.

 

That said, I have to confess that the layout doesn't look particularly inspiring, and it's a little surprising they would choose something with a profile somewhat similar to Diamond Back. I would have thought that like Millennium Force vs. Magnum or Fury 325 vs. whatever (Dominator?), they would go for a lower-to-the-ground profile and try to deliver a different kind of ride experience than Diamondback. But maybe there are only so many things you can do at that speed?

 

Anyway, it will be all about the speeds on which it takes these elements. If it ends up being an airtime machine, no one will complain.

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I don’t think it’s showing “hate” to point out that this is a downgrade in every way from the other older B&M Gigas. Fury showed that they can do massive steeper drops and the ride doesn’t have to end 100’ up with a mile long brake run.

 

This will be a fine ride... but when you’re spending this many millions it seems odd to aim for fine rather than “holy f***” like Fury or i305 (admittedly I can see why no one will build another i305 tho).

 

But do you really think Cedar Fair went to B&M and asked for a downgrade?! No. They do their market research and look at ridership and maybe they decided that Fury was too intense (Obviously not for us, but for GP), and decided to make this a little more tame to entice more people to show up.

 

Think about Steel Vengeance at Cedar Point that didn't help their bottom line, maybe because it was too "holy f***".

 

Look all over Facebook at casual park goers. There are tons out there already today saying how it's too much for them and they'll just watch. If you want parks to have money and build more rides for you, then you have to also let them build rides that more people will ride and make money off of!

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I think it’s crazy to suggest that I'M TOO MUCH OF AN IDIOT TO SPELL STEEL VENGEANCE hasn’t helped their bottom line. It’s a huge draw and pulls 2 hour lines all day. It’s known worldwide as the best coaster.

Edited by robbalvey
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It also could've went something like this.

 

"Hey B&M.. we have 25 million dollars to work with. Show was what you got!"

 

B&M worked within the budget they were given.

 

Yea but B&M didn’t have to offer them a weaker drop curvature or this insane brake run. Neither of those two bad choices saved any money lol.

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I've become sick enough of the complainers ... Coaster goes up hill, speeds up going down hill, etc. They're all somewhat similar. They're pretty awesome unless you're looking for something completely different from that. If you have a giga near you, it may not be worth traveling long distances to ride another, but that is no reason not to build more of them. This one's not super interesting to me because I have 2 giga's closer by. A lot of people don't. Have you that call it cookie cutter ever actually ridden a B&M giga? I found I232 and Fury at Carowinds significantly different, and liked both of them. I don't know if I232's hills are taller but they feel like it. Fury is a much faster paced ride.

 

One thing I see is NO MCBR. Maybe they don't want to make a big deal out of that because they can't promise it will never have a trim brake but this is different. Candymonium also will have no true MCBR but a kind of weird heavy brake followed by a banked turn into the final brake. Orion does look a bit short and doesn't seem to be trying to outdo the other giga's, but that has to happen sometime. They still build coasters less than 300 feet you know.

 

It could be a lot worse! It could be some rough ass SLC, Zamperla contraption or something terrible.

 

This hobby has to remain FUN and positive. I can't tell you how much more I've enjoyed our trips and park visits since I stopped counting 'credits' and stopped riding crap! I wish that I could convince all of the enthusiasts to do the same and it would really improve your park time!

 

By my standards that's still kind of negative, but it's better. Re: your "Parks shouldn't be building coasters for enthusiasts" I fully understand my preference isn't the same as their's.

 

* * *

 

Oh snap, CF now will have 4 parks with both hyper and giga, who's next? maybe one with a giga already?

Edited by bill_s
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Well.. First of all: I hate these brake run skyscrapers, too. They are ugly and look unneccessary.

BUT: If brake run and station would be upon a hill and had to be that high (because it is on a hill), wouldn't be Orion just an incredible coaster without complaints?

What I want to say: This thing is great - and has an ugly brake run. But it's still great.

Go live with it and choose to ride the crap out of it or leave the seats for the ones that want to ride.

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I love the theme. I love the colors. This thing is going to look fantastic.

 

I look at Orion like I look at Valravn and Yukon Striker. Two insanely marketable rides with features that the general public is going to eat up. Whether it's the drop angle or the height and the speed, it's something for people to wildly anticipate and maybe even fear just a little bit. But when they get on the ride next year? It's going to be fun and exciting, yet it isn't going to feel like it's trying to kill them. It'll be a hit for your average park guest.

 

My Twitter feed has far more southwest Ohio locals than coaster enthusiasts, and the reaction is universally positive. No one is talking about the brake run or the dictionary definition of a "giga" coaster.

 

And I mention that because the enthusiast side of me does share some of the concerns that have been brought up. I also think this coaster defied my expectations a bit based on how I thought Kings Island would expand and evolve in a long-term planning sense. But I'm not their target audience, and if I want to ride something crazy that might kill me, I'll go do ERT with TPR on bathtub coasters in Poland or something.

 

If there's one thing we can all agree that Kings Island could do better, it's live-streaming. There's potato quality, and then there's Irish potato famine quality...

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I don’t think it’s showing “hate” to point out that this is a downgrade in every way

Yes it is. That very sentence is hateful, obnoxious and stupid. This entire discussion, in fact this entire forum would have been better off without it.

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I think it’s crazy to suggest that I'M TOO MUCH OF AN IDIOT TO SPELL STEEL VENGEANCE hasn’t helped their bottom line. It’s a huge draw and pulls 2 hour lines all day. It’s known worldwide as the best coaster.

There is no denying that swaths of people worldwide consider Steel Vengeance to be the #1 roller coaster in the world. However, Cedar Point received a larger percentage gain in attendance in 2016, the year that Valravn opened, than they did in 2018, when Steel Vengeance opened (2.8% in 2016 vs 2.0% in 2018, according to the TEA Theme Index). I don't think it's too far off for casual park-goers to think that A) Steel Vengeance is a little TOO crazy and B) it's in essence the new and improved version of Mean Streak, which some older people may "have ridden before".

 

EDIT: Just to be clear, I'm NOT suggesting that Cedar Point shouldn't have built Steel Vengeance at all.

 

I think some of us underestimate the appeal of a roller coaster that LOOKS imposing, and monstrous, and scary, to the general public. People dare their friends to ride the biggest and baddest coaster in the park. It's the stuff that casual YouTube viewers look for reactions to. If a scary-looking coaster that happens to be smooth and re-rideable is what the park wants, then that's what the park gets. They certainly know how to run their park better than most of us do.

Edited by A.J.
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My instinct is to just mock these people but if I'm being totally honest I actually almost feel bad for them. It must suck.

 

I always worry that I'll become jaded like this. So far it hasn't happened and I'm optimistic that it never will since I'm still convinced that the sun rises and sets with Millennium F*cking Force but it must honestly suck to get to the point where any coaster that isn't Steel Vengeance or I305 isn't exciting to you. Not every coaster can be the greatest coaster ever built.

 

It's impossible to judge a giga coaster from a POV. We all thought Fury would be like Leviathan and none of us were prepared for what we actually got. That said, let's say that this thing rides pretty much like Leviathan... is that a bad thing?

 

If you picked up Leviathan right now and dropped it at Kings Island, it would probably be the best coaster at Kings Island. Maybe it wouldn't be your number one coaster but if I got to the point where racing along at NINETY MILES PER HOUR with nothing but a lap bar (and possibly an unnecessary seatbelt but, lol) on a super smooth coaster with a THREE HUNDRED foot drop wasn't enough for me then that would actually be really sad.

 

Thankfully I can't even imagine that.

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