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Cedar Point (CP) Discussion Thread

P. 2017: Top Thrill Dragster RETIRED!?!?!?

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On 2/18/2022 at 11:20 PM, i305isdaddy said:

What insurance company would EVER insure this again? 

This makes zero difference, the park does not have insurance.  The big chains in the country just pay for everything directly themselves.  In this case all injuries, lawsuits, or settlements would be paid directly by Cedar Fair.  

Disney, Universal, and Six Flags all do this, it helps keep things out of the news.  Injury and death lawsuits are extremely uncommon in the amusement park industry because of this, the companies tend to favor settlements and try to make a deal before anything makes it to court. 

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I (obviously) have no idea what CP plans on doing with this ride.

I was surprised to hear them preemptively say it would be closed for the entire 2022 season, and I initially would not have thought they would close the ride permanently.

 

But then I think about this: II think they knew pretty quickly what the cause was -- the plate and bolts were recovered immediately in August 2021.  I would not *think* (?)  the fix to better secure the plate would require THAT much additional engineering and repair (given it's nearly 20 years of operation with those bolts, so it doesn't seem to a core design flaw).  The metallury report indicates that one bolt sheared off instantaneously (causing the second one to fail under increased load).  It could be something as simple as a bad bolt, or, if they imaged the other bolts and saw similar fatigue, you may need to increase diameter/ tensile strength of the bolts and/or add an additional bolt.  Now, since I'm no engineer, maybe that is a more complex engineering issue requiring Intamin re-design, test, manufacture the parts and design, etc.?  Same with the protecting the line: you could provide a higher side wall and partially enclose the line fairly easily?  And the damage to the track appeared limited to a brake bracket.  All these repairs wouldn't seem to require more than 1 year?

My suspicion is that this accident has caused CP to want to consider much more carefully the future of Dragster.  We all know it has been a maintenance nightmare, and they attach tons of pages of maintenance logs to this report, along with its true hours capacities.  Its cost per ride has to be astronomically higher than any other ride in the park.  

Maybe, just maybe, they are thinking: we got nearly 20 years out of this ride; it's expensive as hell; it's ridership levels are relatively modest in comparison to its cost; let's cut our losses and move on?

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36 minutes ago, CaptainUnknown said:

I wonder if it's possible to retrofit the ride with a different type of launch system?

It absolutely is.  But the launch wasn't the problem.

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2 hours ago, Mike240SX said:

It absolutely is. 

Damn, dude - I never realized you worked for Intamin. You been holding out on us this whole time? 🤔

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1 hour ago, boldikus said:

Damn, dude - I never realized you worked for Intamin. You been holding out on us this whole time? 🤔

Anything is possible with enough money.

Besides, I figure if a 30+ year old Schwarzkopf that used a cable launch can be converted to LIMs from a different manufacturer, Dragster could be converted to Intamin's own LSMs or another manufacturer's launch system.

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Could it be converted? Absolutely, but I don't think Intamin would continue any support of the ride if it didn't have their launch system on it. Also, as @Mike240SX has already pointed out, the launch wasn't the issue, it was bolt failure.

Also, when you look at the top 10* fastest launched coasters in the world, you don't see any that exceed 75 mph from a dead stop using any propulsion system other than compressed air of hydraulic cable launch. The rest of them are a rolling launch, LSM lift hill, or shuttle launch (forward back forward). LSM and LIM launches need a lot of power, much more than compressed air and hydraulic. 

I would venture to guess the reason why we haven't seen LSM or LIM launches in excess of the speeds that we currently do has to be in regards to cost, reliability, and maintenance. Not to bring up a sore subject, but Volcano at KD was the fastest LIM launched coaster and needed 2 launch sections from a rolling start just to get to the speed it hit. Reliability was very hit and miss, much more so compared to those with Hydraulic or Compressed Air. Before anyone points out XLC being down all the time, that was more a wheel issue than the launch system.

(* Stats pulled from RCDB and Wikipedia)

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25 minutes ago, CoasterNerd87 said:

Also, when you look at the top 10* fastest launched coasters in the world, you don't see any that exceed 75 mph from a dead stop using any propulsion system other than compressed air of hydraulic cable launch. The rest of them are a rolling launch, LSM lift hill, or shuttle launch (forward back forward). LSM and LIM launches need a lot of power, much more than compressed air and hydraulic.

Red Force at Ferrari Land would like a 110mph word with you. Superman at Magic Mountain would like a 100mph, 25-year-old word with you, as would Tower Of Terror in Australia. 

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4 hours ago, Mike240SX said:

Anything is possible with enough money.

Besides, I figure if a 30+ year old Schwarzkopf that used a cable launch can be converted to LIMs from a different manufacturer, Dragster could be converted to Intamin's own LSMs or another manufacturer's launch system.

Bro, I know you love to swing on Cedar Fairs nutsack but do you seriously believe they'd be willing to sink that kind of money into this ride at this point?

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15 minutes ago, boldikus said:

Bro, I know you love to swing on Cedar Fairs nutsack but do you seriously believe they'd be willing to sink that kind of money into this ride at this point?

No, I don't.  I'm quite confident that if the launch was the problem (it's not), they'd scrap the ride before throwing subtantial money into it.  But they asked if it was possible, which technically it is.

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On 2/18/2022 at 10:20 PM, i305isdaddy said:

I think it’s extremely naive to imagine that this ride will ever reopen.

The lawsuits. The time down not running. What insurance company would EVER insure this again? 

Ka is probably in trouble too. Let’s be realistic guys. 

Lol is the sky really falling? Could Dragster be closed forever? Maybe. Is it ExTrEmElY NaIvE to think it will open again? No. Far from it.

Stop overreacting to what was an unforeseen freak accident. It was terrible, but let's not blow it out of proportion.

Before someone flips shit about the queue placement, or makes claims of recklessness, how many other roller coasters have high speed passes close enough where a dislodged part of a train can kill someone? What on Earth are we going to do with Gatekeeper? Cork Screw is ffff'd. Tear it down. Steel Vengeance isn't just as likely?

How many times have each and every one of us stood as close to a roller coaster as a pathway would allow, to "oooh and ahhh" at it as a train sped by? Has it never crossed anyone's mind that maybe... just maybe... there's a chance something could dislodge from the train and injure someone? Any roller coaster traveling over, or near any path has a similar potential. You're going to have to tear down the whole industry to rid guests of that danger.

If CP changes the queue location, it's strictly a smoke-in-mirrors act.

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I feel like if Dragster were to get removed, hypothetically, it would be because of the almost 2 decades of horrible reliability and terrible uptime and, presumably, extremely high maintenance costs rather than as a result of this single incident alone.

I say close the ride, send all the trains and parts to Knott's, and replace with a 500-foot poler coaster.

(kidding of course, but, I mean, I also wouldn't mind this...)

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12 hours ago, thrillseeker4552 said:

I feel like if Dragster were to get removed, hypothetically, it would be because of the almost 2 decades of horrible reliability and terrible uptime and, presumably, extremely high maintenance costs rather than as a result of this single incident alone.

I say close the ride, send all the trains and parts to Knott's, and replace with a 500-foot poler coaster.

(kidding of course, but, I mean, I also wouldn't mind this...)

Close it, dismantle it, then use the track for that long-rumored expansion of Xcelerator that is totally going to happen this year guys, trust me.

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*takes peek* yeah no not even gunna dip my foot into that shitfest but deff odd news. Won't lie I really won't be surprised if it never opens again and forget insurance and what CEOs said or didnt or whatever......the downtime for this ride has always been legendary and it seems getting worse again in recent years. Last two visits I think I saw TTD barely operating or once not at all for the day. This accident may itself be just that but in the big picture of the mess this ride is, yeah who knows. 

Perhaps they are indeed changing the queue though not sure that needs a full year? Whatever safety things are needed go for it but that aside yeah this ride's future prob is limited now even if it does reopen in 2023. It's been so long I can't believe there's people who haven't ridden but I know there are, would feel sad for them. Like my brother never has and sadly he only been on KK which left him wanting to die lol 

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Cedar Point's daily Fast Lane/Plus is now purchase-able for the spring and summer.

Prices range from...
Fast Lane: $89 - $169
Fast Lane Plus: $114 - $249.

FL+ for FL price for Platinum Pass holders still applies.

Still no FL/+ application at Cedar Point Shores.

No surprises here.

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Thoosies are already having absolute meltdowns over the exclusion of Maverick and Vengeance and I'm totally here for it.

popcorn.gif.1a9a95c8385e5f07d0b7bd786f29c715.gif

 

 

 

 

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