The Knott's Berry Farm (KBF) Discussion Thread

[tanthonyam]

Anyone know when the Log ride reopens again?  Says its closed on the website.

[CedarFlags]

Got a notification that the KBF App has been updated, so I tinkered with it a little bit today at home.  It's similar to the old one how you browse, but it seems to have more functions to search and filter.  You can search the map for rides based on thrill level, ride type, or even maximum wait time.  You can refine dining search to include Vegie or Gluten Free menus and even filter just by locations included on the dining plan.  Can't remember if the previous one had that filter, but that seems super helpful.

The park map in the app is also VASTLY improved .  You can look at it and actually tell where the hell you are now.  But I did notice one extremely interesting thing in the Fiesta / Camp Snoopy area...

The footprint of Montezooma's Revenge is completely blank, like the ride doesn't even exist.  Good chance this is just an oversight, but also... that doesn't bode well for the future of the ride that the park didn't even think to include it on the map.

[AmyUD06]

17 hours ago, CedarFlags said:

The footprint of Montezooma's Revenge is completely blank, like the ride doesn't even exist.  Good chance this is just an oversight, but also... that doesn't bode well for the future of the ride that the park didn't even think to include it on the map.

They've already said that the initial renovation plans with Kumbak are no more*, no? (EDIT: This was not officially stated by the park, just a Screamscape rumor).  I think we just need to accept that it's gone and will not be coming back in any recognizable form.

*Is anyone shocked?  A company whose claim to fame was the horrible trains on T3 at Kentucky Kingdom doesn't exactly have the best track record.

[CedarFlags]

10 hours ago, AmyUD06 said:

They've already said that the initial renovation plans with Kumbak are no more*, no?  I think we just need to accept that it's gone and will not be coming back in any recognizable form.

*Is anyone shocked?  A company whose claim to fame was the horrible trains on T3 at Kentucky Kingdom doesn't exactly have the best track record.

I missed that announcement... when did the park say that Kumbak was gone?

[AmyUD06]

3 hours ago, CedarFlags said:

I missed that announcement... when did the park say that Kumbak was gone?

My apologies, it was Screamscape rumors.  But still believable, especially given the now-year-long-delay added to the project with no motion whatsoever on the site.

[SoCalJasonland]

On 2/2/2024 at 2:30 AM, AmyUD06 said:

They've already said that the initial renovation plans with Kumbak are no more*, no? (EDIT: This was not officially stated by the park, just a Screamscape rumor).  I think we just need to accept that it's gone and will not be coming back in any recognizable form.

*Is anyone shocked?  A company whose claim to fame was the horrible trains on T3 at Kentucky Kingdom doesn't exactly have the best track record.

It is my understanding, but I can't say where this originated, is that the contract to repair the ride was conditional that the costs were reasonable and the track, supports, footings, and station could be re-used wherever possible to keep costs within reason.  Once the track was cut at the loop, the rust / deterioration level was worse than expected and some of the concrete foundations settlement are questionable.  Knott's doesn't want to spend the cost of a new coaster repairing an older mostly unpopular coaster.  Based upon past situations like this, Knott's or other Cedar Fair parks, would beg the board for a new attraction and wait.  Given the financial insecurities in the possible merger with Six Flags and likelyhood for a recession or lowered consumer spending for the near future, we may be stuck waiting for a replacement.  

Edited February 4 by SoCalJasonland
spelling

[coasternut]

^ One thing I'd disagree with. Monte wasn't unpopular. It always had a line, and I definitely enjoyed it at the park. It has been and will be "sorely missed!"

[SoCalJasonland]

On 2/4/2024 at 9:22 AM, coasternut said:

^ One thing I'd disagree with. Monte wasn't unpopular. It always had a line, and I definitely enjoyed it at the park. It has been and will be "sorely missed!"

To be fair, Monte is not unpopular but not a top three coatser in the park for most people, but perhaps a top 5, and probably not a major draw in itself.  People would miss it but it takes a weekend or holiday for it to get a line.  Even when the park is packed the line rarely got over 45 miniutes.

[cfc]

I've always been fond of Montezooma's Revenge. My older brother and I rode it numerous times back when it was new. It's too bad that this classic type of coaster has disappeared in the the U.S. 

[ryder]

On 2/8/2024 at 4:47 PM, SoCalJasonland said:

To be fair, Monte is not unpopular but not a top three coatser in the park for most people, but perhaps a top 5, and probably not a major draw in itself.  People would miss it but it takes a weekend or holiday for it to get a line.  Even when the park is packed the line rarely got over 45 miniutes.

You could say the same thing for Blue Streak at Cedar Point, but that doesn't mean it's preferred to just tear it down for no reason. 

[Nrthwnd]

These shuttle loop coasters are wonderful! Instant adrenaline rush when you 'take off' towards that huge loop.

My first one was TIdal Wave in (what it used to be called) Marriott's Great America in Santa Clara, CA. 1995.

When we did a re-visit to Knott's and discovered Montezooma, I think I rode it five times that visit!

Very sad if Monte is permanently retired, etc. And "Wouldn't it be great," if they replaced it with another shuttle loop coaster?  Just wishing <here>...

Tidal Wave

[Electerik]

Grew up with Monte. Hate to see it go. But it sounds like the park didn't really want to get rid of it, so I'll give them credit for that (even if I wasn't too excited by what they were planning to do to it).

Considering the footprint left behind, perhaps one of those new Vekoma Super Boomerangs might work there.

 

[KBrylczyk]

I'm not an engineer and I have questionable intelligence at the best of times, but wouldn't building a new, exact clone from scratch be fairly simple?  It's not like it was a difficult ride system.

[SoCalJasonland]

4 hours ago, KBrylczyk said:

I'm not an engineer and I have questionable intelligence at the best of times, but wouldn't building a new, exact clone from scratch be fairly simple?  It's not like it was a difficult ride system.

It is simple but entirely restoring an entire coaster versus mass-producing one is very expensive because everything has to be custom-built and entirely engineered to meet all current safety standards.  Unless you could sell several of them, it is not worth the engineering costs that need to be spread among several coasters to be cost-efficient.  The design was discontinued decades ago and the manufacturer is out of business so how do you convince a board of directors to spend twice as much to duplicate outdated technology or purchase a newer off-the-shelf coaster technology that has more elements and is unique to the park?   

The park did restore the log ride and GhostRider but neither needed extensive costs to repair and repairs were far less than a new ride of equivalent quality.  I saw a permit that the GhostRider re-tracking was listed at around $1,000,000, not including new trains, which was far less than an RMC conversion.  This park does things to save money and wouldn't get rid of Monte if it was financially viable to repair.  Didn't the same company  Kumbak also refurbish one of these in Europe and it doesn't have the best reviews as compared to the original version?  I heard the cars were uncomfortable and the launch was weak.  If anyone knows what it is, I would like to see it on Youtube but the launch, g-force in the loop, and comfortable trains made Monte great.

[KBrylczyk]

Alright, so we'll split down the middle.  Rebuild it but give it a brand new launch system that pays homage to the ancient technology.  Trebuchet launch.

[CaptainUnknown]

Are we sure the park is done with the ride? I know it got removed from the map, but couldn't that just as easily be in reference to how long they expect the thing to be SBNO?

[jedimaster1227]

Cedar Fair's latest financial report references the depreciation of assets including the loss of a terminated project at Knott's Berry Farm... This is likely the first or closest-to-official confirmation shared to date regarding the cancellation of the Montezooma's Revenge coaster overhaul. 

https://www.sec.gov/ixviewer/ix.html?doc=/Archives/edgar/data/811532/000081153224000035/fun-20231231.htm

[SharkTums]

Super sad. This shouldn't have been as big of a deal as it ended up and now the ride is dead. =(

[Coasters & Lamps]

 It has been literally years since I last posted on this site. Apparently, I never logged onto here outside of my 2011 iMac. That computer died a couple of years ago and I'm just now recovering this account. 

 Anyway, the very moment I heard about some SFGAM rides going to Niagra amusement park, I started wondering how likely it would be for Gene Staples to end up with Montezuma's revenge as well. While I don't, even for a minute, think he would ever restore both rides, I can see him restoring the one that is in the best condition and using the other for parts. This could help to restore Cascabel or Vice-Versa. 

[cfc]

This is very sad news. I always liked those Schwarzkopf shuttles, but most of them are gone.

[SoCalJasonland]

14 hours ago, cfc said:

This is very sad news. I always liked those Schwarzkopf shuttles, but most of them are gone.

I miss it too.  Is Nagashima Spa Land the last one?  Apparently, the other one, per RCDB, Psyké Underground at Walibi Belgium was coverted to LIMs by Gerstlauer in 2013.  I was previously mistaken and thought it was a Kumbak conversion.  The remaining ones are disposed of or in storage.

Unfortunately, Psyké Underground is now fully enclosed in the dark and so it is hard to compare to Monte but LIMs appear to decrease the initial launch acceleration.  

I used to pop the clutch on my manual transmission Dodge Charger to race, but it is a good way to not only launch really quickly but ruin your transmission at the same time.  I know because I had to replace the transmission when it was two years old.  This coaster type would have similar stressors.

https://rcdb.com/8192.htm

"Flywheel

Shuttle Loop - Schwarzkopf (Münsterhausen, Bavaria, Germany)

Discontinued, Manufactured from 1978 to 1982

Details

Roller Coasters 8 (3 relocated)

Notes

this shuttle roller coaster launches riders through a nearly circular vertical loop. Next the train climbs a 70 degree incline until it's momentum is depleted, falls backwards and repeats the journey. There are two variations of the catapult system: Weight Drop and Flywheel. The Weight Drop uses a 40 ton weight in a tower at the end of the ride. The weight connects to a pulley system which triples the speed of the drop, placing over 13 tons of force on the train. The Flywheel utilizes a six ton flywheel in a machine room in front of the loop. The flywheel spins to 1044rpm and then engages a 4:1 speed reducer. This turns a drive pulley and propels the train via a cable."

[DoinItForTheFame]

12 hours ago, SoCalJasonland said:

I miss it too.  Is Nagashima Spa Land the last one?  Apparently, the other one, per RCDB, Psyké Underground at Walibi Belgium was coverted to LIMs by Gerstlauer in 2013.  I was previously mistaken and thought it was a Kumbak conversion.  The remaining ones are disposed of or in storage.

Unfortunately, Psyké Underground is now fully enclosed in the dark and so it is hard to compare to Monte but LIMs appear to decrease the initial launch acceleration.  

We got the chance to ride Psyke Underground last year, and it was a LOT of fun. We enjoyed it much more than we thought we would. Howevever, I can say the LIM launh defiantly feels slower than the flywheel launches. It doesn't have the same inital "punch." Stil a lot of fun though, and having it enclosed was an awesome experience!

[CedarFlags]

In non-Zoom related news... has anyone else noticed that the park has kind of given up on Monday-Friday?  Even going back to Christmas and Halloween season.  The museum is only open on weekends, school house is only on weekends, live shows are only on weekends (the few that are even left), most restaurants are closed, the train bandits come and go with no predictable schedule.  What happened to this place?  It was not that long ago that you could go on a weekday and have an awesome time seeing all the different fun parts of the park without having to go on the busiest crowd days.

And the crazy part is, there's been a huge attendance boost over the last 5/6 years.  They used to have all this stuff, even when the park was EMPTY.  Now even on days with moderate crowds sometimes there's nothing.

[SoCalJasonland]

On 2/11/2024 at 8:17 AM, ryder said:

You could say the same thing for Blue Streak at Cedar Point, but that doesn't mean it's preferred to just tear it down for no reason. 

A wood coaster is still produced and easier and cheaper to repair than a launched flywheel technology abandoned in 1982.  Knott's did a great job on Ghostrider and it has been re-rideable longer than the original version was originally rideable.  If launched flywheel coasters were reliable technology, we probably wouldn't have moved to accelerator coasters and then LSMs and LIMs.  Knott's fixed their log ride, mine train, wooden coaster, Intimin sky ride, Berry Tales, and keeps stagecoaches and steam trains running.  Monte and Mystery Lodge have no financially viable fixes, so they are unfortunately lost items.  Knott's would not have canceled Monte is there was a reasonable fix.  If we are lucky, the parts will save the other last one in the country that could use some love

[tndank]

There's still a chance. Now coming 2025.