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Cedar Point (CP) Discussion Thread

p. 2030 - Top Thrill 2 announced!

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I know I'm a couple pages late on this, but I think there's something that's been overlooked in the discussion of why Cedar Point would add a dive machine:

 

Dive machines go upside down.

 

The park is marketed toward thrill seekers, but prior to 2007 only 3 of Cedar Point's 16 roller coasters went upside down. When the GP thinks of thrilling roller coasters, inversions are one of the first things to come to mind, and, until recently, the park was seriously lacking in that category... hence their last two additions have been loopers. A dive machine would make 6 of 17 (18 if you're counting the disk-o), which looks a heck of a lot more thrilling to the GP. The 6 loopers, not the disk-o.

 

Add in that dive machines are tall, have the holding the brake and vertical drop gimmicks, are smooth/reliable/high capacity investments, and that there are only two of them in the United States thus far... a Dive Machine is literally everything that Cedar Point is looking for in a new coaster.

 

As for the comments like "Those who have ridden a dive machine will be excited for this" -- I totally agree. Griffon may not be one of my all-time favorite roller coasters, but I still love it to death. I can't wait to ride Cedar Point's.

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...followed by some airtime hills which we have not seen on a dive coaster.....

 

Airtime hills on a coaster with OTSR? Ouch...no thanks. I suppose the new vest like restrains (like on Wing Coasters) would work, but still not the greatest feeling.

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...followed by some airtime hills which we have not seen on a dive coaster.....

 

Airtime hills on a coaster with OTSR? Ouch...no thanks. I suppose the new vest like restrains (like on Wing Coasters) would work, but still not the greatest feeling.

Airtime with OTSR is not uncomfortable with drop towers, so I can't imagine it being a problem on anything else.

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I'm still not completely convinced that it will be a dive coaster, thought it's definitely possible since the Sandusky Register did leak the news about Gatekeeper a few months ahead of its announcement. I'm personally hoping that it will be a GCI woodie because Cedar Point could use a standout wooden coaster (Blue Streak is very fun, but not quite on the level of standing out). I'd rather have an RMC wooden coaster, but they're already booked for the year.

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Sometimes I feel ashamed of some of the other folks involved in my enthusiastic hobby!

Is it really that serious? Not everyone is going to like what CP is doing and they don't have to. Everyone has an opinion and that's what makes discussions interesting. If everyone was in agreement with everything, it'd be really boring.

 

Yes it can be. You must understand that "we" as in "us enthusiasts" make up about 1% of the general public of paying customers. We're also less likely to spend tons of money because we know the tricks and how to plan a day perfectly to enjoy the attractions. When you hear the horror stories of CoasterMania, or West Coast Bash, or any other events at how rude the people will act towards employees and park managers who are doing something they don't have to do, yes it's frustrating!

 

With that being said, what I stated goes for any park, not just Cedar Point. We very rarely will get what we all will agree on as a "great coaster". Meaning most complaints I ever see about new rides are it's force-less, it's not fast enough, it's not jerky enough. Stuff that the GP typically doesn't like. I visited King's Dominion for the first time this past Saturday because I'd never ridden I-305. I thought it was great and enjoyed it. I still like Millennium Force more, this ride was supposed to rake in the crowds, on a busy Saturday afternoon I waited 10 minutes for front seat and no wait for any other seat. Being from so far away I asked what gives? Everyone said the same thing, it's a one and done because of the forces and Maverick style twisty's. We can all handle it and ride all day for the most part, but the majority of the 99% can't.

 

So therefore, will I'm not a liberal and love everyone's opinion, generally these opinions aren't opinions, they are just general moaning and bellyaching. An opinion about a roller coaster isn't the typical "it's force-less" and so on and so forth, we all know what you're gonna say. The only different opinion that's been stated in this particular conversation is the fact CP has rides similar, but then someone else addressed this with Wicked Twister and Raptor. It's just a different trick even if it's one trick pony, and it's a new pony that CP will make millions on the 99%...not the 1%. I've ran into way too many entitled "enthusiasts" and I only hope for the opinions to remain opinions, not bitching. So if you choose to not go and spend money to ride it because you think it won't be that good, then that's fine! I just think it's then silly to call yourself an "enthusiast" as enthusiasts are supposed to enjoy the hobby of roller coasters and thrill rides. It likely will be another CP style record breaker and all that's here is mostly negativity. Thahere my point came from.

 

 

This is called an ad hominem attack. (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem). You disagree with myself and a few others about the new ride, but instead of simply arguing why you think it's a good addition to the park, you conflate our negative opinions with the kind of a$$hole behavior you see at enthusiast events and declare us all to be "entitled". In reality you've never met me and don't know anything about my general attitude or behavior, and of course my opinion is just that, an opinion, like any other. Turning my opinion into "moaning and bellyaching" is an attack on my character, which is uncalled for and not constructive to the conversation.

 

I love Cedar Point. I love dive coasters. I just happen to love other coasters more. It's all good! It's all love, man.

 

But seriously, how can you visit so many different parks and NOT have an opinion on what would be a good addition, versus what would be an even better addition? Do you really just go from park to park never thinking about what you like, and what you'd like to see more of, versus what you don't like as well? Sounds awfully boring.

 

Don't get me wrong, I wasn't personally going after you as I won't judge someone's character even if I know them. It was more or less overall venting because I visited SFGAV and King's Dominion this past week for the first time and I saw a lot of moaning and groaning while I felt like I was the only one who enjoyed myself. So apologies if it felt personal, wasn't meant to be.

 

As for that comment about visiting so many parks and not wondering, pffft, I think we'd all be happy if every park had an El Toro lol

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I love the different perspectives, thoughts and opinions on the board, it just builds anticipation for what ever they build weather I like it or not and regardless of if their new attraction is geared towards family or the roller coaster enthusiast. We all should remember to:

1. Be civil- it is just a roller coaster

2. Don't take things to serious - its just a roller coaster

 

My heart says it will be a Dive Machine or some B&M which is a strong addition on all fronts. They tend to be smooth, intense, beautifully layed out coasters with the highest capacity trains in the business. However the coaster enthusiast in me would love if they spent 35 million and just built the 500ft tall coaster just to be the first to do it with intense curves like Maverick mixed with Magnum XL airtime hills. I don't know their numbers or demographics they are aiming for so it might not be a mart business decision or get the best return on investment for the park.

 

It's great teasing on Cedar Point's part, ever since I-305 gave them all those troubles at King's Dominion it seems Cedar Fair has put Intamin aside for awhile. B&M has been dominating the new coaster market for the last few years. It's only a matter of time I think though before Cedar Fair might return to Intamin, if you want edgy and flare...Intamin seems to do it almost every time.

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How is Airtime with OTSR a bad thing? There are many roller coasters with some airtime hills that have OTSR.

 

Also, I personally like the wide trains of the dive coaster. I wouldn't want to see them go with a longer train. Also, it would be really hard to incorporate the "hang" over the drop.

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I'm sure there are some different things they could do that would really make a great dive coaster, I can't tell you how many times in RCT I would build a dive coaster with some top hat elements that gave it some insane airtime numbers. But in reality, this is Cedar Fair and Cedar Point we're talking about, they know how to make them big and bad if they really want too. Between now and the anniversary are going to be some exciting times at the park for park goers of all types.

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I love the different perspectives, thoughts and opinions on the board, it just builds anticipation for what ever they build weather I like it or not and regardless of if their new attraction is geared towards family or the roller coaster enthusiast. We all should remember to:

1. Be civil- it is just a roller coaster

2. Don't take things to serious - its just a roller coaster

 

My heart says it will be a Dive Machine or some B&M which is a strong addition on all fronts. They tend to be smooth, intense, beautifully layed out coasters with the highest capacity trains in the business. However the coaster enthusiast in me would love if they spent 35 million and just built the 500ft tall coaster just to be the first to do it with intense curves like Maverick mixed with Magnum XL airtime hills. I don't know their numbers or demographics they are aiming for so it might not be a mart business decision or get the best return on investment for the park.

 

It's great teasing on Cedar Point's part, ever since I-305 gave them all those troubles at King's Dominion it seems Cedar Fair has put Intamin aside for awhile. B&M has been dominating the new coaster market for the last few years. It's only a matter of time I think though before Cedar Fair might return to Intamin, if you want edgy and flare...Intamin seems to do it almost every time.

 

I think with a Intamin really excels in building world-class rides for a price that won't break the bank. Intamin can do things with a small budget that other manufactures (even B&M) simply can't. They always seem to get their rides right, only to have it ruined by some engineering/design flaw, so hopefully they've learned from their mistakes. I can't wait for the day CF returns to them

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I went on Google Earth and measured the land at Cedar Point and other flying coasters to get an idea of how big of a flyer could fit in the land.

 

A rough estimate of the land at Cedar Point is 180 meters by 128 meters.

 

A Superman clone is 125 x 111

Manta is 210 x 125

Tatsu is 277 x 130

A Vekoma Stingray is 38 x 124

A Volare is 4-wait why am i measuring a Volare.

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Sometimes I feel ashamed of some of the other folks involved in my enthusiastic hobby!

Is it really that serious? Not everyone is going to like what CP is doing and they don't have to. Everyone has an opinion and that's what makes discussions interesting. If everyone was in agreement with everything, it'd be really boring.

 

Yes it can be. You must understand that "we" as in "us enthusiasts" make up about 1% of the general public of paying customers. We're also less likely to spend tons of money because we know the tricks and how to plan a day perfectly to enjoy the attractions. When you hear the horror stories of CoasterMania, or West Coast Bash, or any other events at how rude the people will act towards employees and park managers who are doing something they don't have to do, yes it's frustrating!

 

With that being said, what I stated goes for any park, not just Cedar Point. We very rarely will get what we all will agree on as a "great coaster". Meaning most complaints I ever see about new rides are it's force-less, it's not fast enough, it's not jerky enough. Stuff that the GP typically doesn't like. I visited King's Dominion for the first time this past Saturday because I'd never ridden I-305. I thought it was great and enjoyed it. I still like Millennium Force more, this ride was supposed to rake in the crowds, on a busy Saturday afternoon I waited 10 minutes for front seat and no wait for any other seat. Being from so far away I asked what gives? Everyone said the same thing, it's a one and done because of the forces and Maverick style twisty's. We can all handle it and ride all day for the most part, but the majority of the 99% can't.

 

So therefore, will I'm not a liberal and love everyone's opinion, generally these opinions aren't opinions, they are just general moaning and bellyaching. An opinion about a roller coaster isn't the typical "it's force-less" and so on and so forth, we all know what you're gonna say. The only different opinion that's been stated in this particular conversation is the fact CP has rides similar, but then someone else addressed this with Wicked Twister and Raptor. It's just a different trick even if it's one trick pony, and it's a new pony that CP will make millions on the 99%...not the 1%. I've ran into way too many entitled "enthusiasts" and I only hope for the opinions to remain opinions, not bitching. So if you choose to not go and spend money to ride it because you think it won't be that good, then that's fine! I just think it's then silly to call yourself an "enthusiast" as enthusiasts are supposed to enjoy the hobby of roller coasters and thrill rides. It likely will be another CP style record breaker and all that's here is mostly negativity. That's where my point came from.

 

I think you took this out into orbit slightly.

 

Enthusiasts bitching at event hardly seems the same as us discussing on a message board what we'd like to see at CP. You might love the idea of a dive machine, but not everyone will... it doesn't mean we are "bellyaching" we merely have an opnion that differs from yours.

 

At the end of the day CP hasn't even announced anything, so technically how can anyone be "complaining" when everything is speculation at this point?

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I've only been on Sheikra, and when I did it was fun. I thought the front row was really awesome, especially the holding brake. It was fun, but I still preferred Montu and Kumba over it. Which makes me hope it isn't a Dive Coaster. Tony Clark did say that it was one of many options that we're available, but I'm just saying that if it is a Dive Coaster, I will be perfectly fine with it. They're fun rides without a doubt, but there are many other things that I (as well as many of you) would prefer. Dive Coasters just seem a bit gimmicky to me. The holding brake-immelmann-water splashdown can only be beaten to death so many times. I'm sure that CP will put their own spin on it if it happens, but I'm just saying I would prefer something else. The GP will eat it up though. Whatever CP does, I know it will be great. I was very satisfied with Gatekeeper even though winged coasters existed in the US prior to it opening, but I think it was a great addition and that if CP adds its own touch to it they could totally reinvent the Dive Coaster experience. I just wish it were longer, because Cedar Point already has plenty of short rides. Like Dragster, Wicked Twister, Corkscrew, and Blue Streak are all one and done type rides, because the length of the ride versus how long youll wait (exception Blue Streak) is not worth it to re ride. If CP gets another quick coaster like the other dive machines, it wont be as big of a hit I think. I would much rather prefer an RMC mean streak, but with all this land clearing and whatnot I don't see that happening for at least three years. I would also take a flying coaster, because when I went on Manta I had an amazing time, one of my favorite B&Ms. Whatever CP does it will be great, but if it were up to me I would pick something else.

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CIOg-VNUEAAC965.jpg

From Twitter

 

Yeah, that's a broken chain alright. Hopefully they get it up and running quickly. It's Cedar Point so they probably will, they fixed Gatekeeper's chain in less than 3 days last year.

 

 

 

Did this happen during a test run, or was there occupants on the train that had to be evacuated?

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^

Completely unrelated but I believe Iron Dragon may have snapped a lift chain today. I walked by the ride in the early am and saw a full train stopped a little ways up the first lift and an Op walked up and talked to the guests. I assumed it was because someone had a selfie stick or something but when I came back later the (now empty) train was in the same place with the chain bunched up at the bottom of the lift disconnected. So yeah as I imagine CP is probably prepared for this even but as arrow isn't alive anymore wouldn't a new lift chain be hard to come by, especially for a suspended coaster? I took a few pics on my phone but i dont know how to upload them.
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I'm so excited to see how fast they fix this so we can all laugh at Magic Mountain. Are we comparing apples to oranges in regard to ride type and size? Maybe... but it doesn't make it any less funny. Plus they did get Gatekeeper a new chain last year in less than 3 days which is a much more substantial ride.

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I'm so excited to see how fast they fix this so we can all laugh at Magic Mountain. Are we comparing apples to oranges in regard to ride type and size? Maybe... but it doesn't make it any less funny. Plus they did get Gatekeeper a new chain last year in less than 3 days which is a much more substantial ride.

But did GK's chain actually break? I mean, it was so fast that back then I thought it had been something else.

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