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Cedar Point (CP) Discussion Thread

P. 1989: Wicked Twister's permanent closure announced!

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Wow, that was a lot of dive machine discussion. My opinion on dive machines is that they are great coasters. The holding brake at the top is something the GP loves, and they eat it up. It's a great feature and it is one of those true "Oh Sh!t! Restraint don't fail me now!" Moments. Dive machines have some great airtime on the first drop, (and the second drop on SheiKra, and Griffon) especially in the back row. If Cedar Point does end up getting a dive machine, we all know it will be taller than any other dive machine out there, which would create an amazing first drop in itself. I highly doubt Cedar Point would get a "cookie cutter" dive machine, or any dive machine with a layout similar to what's already out there. That's not Cedar Points style.

 

I like anyone else on here would love to see them get a 500ft i305 style coaster, but regardless of what they build... it is Cedar Point, and it will be amazing.

 

Thank you, people are seriously overlooking the "wow" factor of the holding brake... I mean seriously overlooking it.

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The advantages dive machines have over the competition is obvious; capacity, reliability, safety record.

 

Couldn't this be said of all of B&M's coasters/ride styles? I think it's clear B&M is going to be their choice of manufacturer regardless of what the ride ends up being, I'm just slightly disappointed B&M hasn't come up with any other new and exciting concepts for one of their biggest clients since the wing coasters. "OK B&M, it's time for a new ride. What else ya got?" "Well, these dive coasters used to be a big deal." "Sure, I'll take it, just make sure it's the tallest one you've built so far."

 

It still astonishes me that out of the near 100 coasters that B&M has built, not one has closed yet. Even the old stand-ups like Mantis and Vortex were close, but now can become great rides again with the floorless trains.

 

However, B&M does have some limitations. Cost is a big one. Compared to what Intamin can build in a set amount of money, B&M probably would fail to meet a similar design with that amount and not be as forceful either. Plus B&M has always been the second manufacturer to introduce elements (modernly speaking). They were second to agree to build 300+ feet, and took over 20 years to make their first launching coaster. If a park wants something totally new or record breaking, Intamin has usually been called for, even if it involves technical bugs frequently. Look at TTD. Despite it being so inconsistent, over 10 years later it is still in operation and can still do what is required to make it rideable.

 

I'm pretty sure that this project will be a B&M unless it is something truly unique and possibly record breaking.

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Flyer and 4th dem. Those would make 100% rounded (with a proper woodie)

 

Having both an Invert & Wing coaster, a flyer would be a bit repetitive.

 

SFGAm has a Flyer, a Wing, and an Invert.

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While Dive Machines are great coasters, it just wouldn't give me that "WOW" factor. They're fun rides, don't get me wrong but they just don't have that "OMFG" after getting off feeling. An RMC coming to Cedar Point would have that or another Intamin.

 

Of course I'm perfectly okay with a Dive Machine, it'll be a fun ride to have at the park for years to come. But there is always this hidden hope it'll be something more for 2016...

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Flyer and 4th dem. Those would make 100% rounded (with a proper woodie)

 

Having both an Invert & Wing coaster, a flyer would be a bit repetitive.

 

SFGAm has a Flyer, a Wing, and an Invert.

 

This is true. The point is, there all advertised as;

Nothing above, nothing below.

An unprecedented feeling of freedom

An unparalleled flying experience with guests in a prone position
Dangling feet as well as outside loops and inversions provide a unique ride experience.
With Wicked Twister & Iron Dragon, along with the previously mentioned GateKeeper and Raptor, you can only sell the "total freedom/ flight" gimmick so many times. It is true that a flyer provides a unique ride experience, along with the previously mentioned ones. And I also prefer flyers over Dive coasters. However, the Dive coaster would help diversify Cedar Point's lineup further than what a flying coaster could. Which is the argument the quote is based upon.
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Rougarou was advertised as the park's first floor less coaster, even though the park already had 4 coasters without floors. They can find a way possible to market a dive coaster.

 

I find it funny that enthusiasts always complain that parks only build "gimmicky" rides, and then a park finally may be putting in a ride that doesn't focus on breaking height/speed records and everybody complains. Seriously, stop complaining about a new coaster when there are plenty of parks in real need of one.

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Rougarou was advertised as the park's first floor less coaster, even though the park already had 4 coasters without floors. They can find a way possible to market a dive coaster.

 

Well, that is because Rougarou is an official floorless coaster model. The others are a different type of coaster entirely and happen to have no floor. It is possible to market anything with the right people behind it, as anything new to GP would be received positively. The argument is question though, begs the question as to what would be the better choice; Flyer or Dive, when it comes to diversity. And my choice is going to the dive coaster. This is based upon; 1.) The current size of the possible location next to Celebration Plaza, 2.) A Dive coaster, in my personal opinion, would be the best choice from B&M to diversify the park out of all the other offerings from B&M when option #1 is taken into consideration.

 

I find it funny that enthusiasts always complain that parks only build "gimmicky" rides, and then a park finally may be putting in a ride that doesn't focus on breaking height/speed records and everybody complains. Seriously, stop complaining about a new coaster when there are plenty of parks in real need of one.

 

This is a shame. I don't really see why anyone would complain about getting a new coaster, unless it's a Vekoma.

Just for the record, I'm not complaining about anything.

Edited by JonnyRCT3
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Thank you, people are seriously overlooking the "wow" factor of the holding brake... I mean seriously overlooking it.
I could not agree more.

 

I have been on SheiKra and Griffon hundreds of times each, and each time I get an "Oh Sh!T" moment as the train just hangs there waiting to drop. The entire point of a dive coaster is the anticipation hanging there waiting to drop. That is what makes the ride what it is. That is what sets the ride apart from all the other coasters out there. It is like taking Falcons Fury, and combining it with a roller coaster. You get a really slow climb up, then you are put in a face first position, and dropped straight down... into a fun coaster layout. Dive coasters are not designed to be killer airtime machines, or mega inversion coasters. They are designed to scare people by playing on their fear of heights, by dangling them over a vertical drop at (for most of the GP) staggering heights. And that is just what they do.

 

While no dive coasters are not the most "extreme, fast paced, airtime filled, inversion filled, forceful, fastest, or longest" coasters out there, they are by far some of the smoothest, most reliable, they are something the GP loves, they are fun, they are VERY re-rideable, and they are just as thrilling every time you ride them.

 

Do I think that Cedar Point could come up with something more "extreme?" Yes. But maybe that is not what they are looking for right now. Maybe they are looking for something that is everything a dive coaster is, then again maybe they are not. Maybe they are not even getting a dive coaster at all. We won't know until they announce it.

 

So what is the point about complaining about what the park may or may NOT be getting? Complaining is not going to change anything. A dive coaster is not like anything else the park has now. It is not like a floorless coaster, it is not like a wing-coaster, it is not like an inverted coaster, it is nothing like Wicked Twister, or Iron Dragon, or Mean Streak, or Magnum, or Maverick, or Top Thrill Dragster, or any other coasters in the park that people are trying to compare them to simply because they think that a dive coaster is to "boring" to "not extreme" to "similar to what they already have" to "not cutting edge enough."

 

As I wrap up this rant I can not help but to find myself wondering how many people complaining about this *could be dive coaster coming to Cedar Point* have actually BEEN ON A DIVE COASTER, because if they had, they should know:

Dive Coaster + Cedar Point = No Reason To Complain.

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Those who have ridden a dive coaster (myself included) are more than likely excited about another being built. They are excellent rides.

 

Exactly what I was trying to say. Those who have ridden dive coasters should be excited about another being built, because like you said, "they are excellent rides."

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While Dive Machines are great coasters, it just wouldn't give me that "WOW" factor. They're fun rides, don't get me wrong but they just don't have that "OMFG" after getting off feeling. An RMC coming to Cedar Point would have that or another Intamin.

 

Of course I'm perfectly okay with a Dive Machine, it'll be a fun ride to have at the park for years to come. But there is always this hidden hope it'll be something more for 2016...

A 252 foot record breaking DIVE MACHINE isn't enough for one year??? This is aimed directly at you but this whole discussion is eye rolling because even how is a surely unique and awesome dive machine barely enough or not enough for one year. Especially since you have just gotten 1.5 coasters in the last three years. Not just the GP but i'm sure 99% of coaster enthusiasts would be more than satisfied with this. I know this is CP but this is still pretty ridiculous.

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While Dive Machines are great coasters, it just wouldn't give me that "WOW" factor. They're fun rides, don't get me wrong but they just don't have that "OMFG" after getting off feeling. An RMC coming to Cedar Point would have that or another Intamin.

 

Of course I'm perfectly okay with a Dive Machine, it'll be a fun ride to have at the park for years to come. But there is always this hidden hope it'll be something more for 2016...

A 252 foot record breaking DIVE MACHINE isn't enough for one year??? This is aimed directly at you but this whole discussion is eye rolling because even how is a surely unique and awesome dive machine barely enough or not enough for one year. Especially since you have just gotten 1.5 coasters in the last three years. Not just the GP but i'm sure 99% of coaster enthusiasts would be more than satisfied with this. I know this is CP but this is still pretty ridiculous.

You're really misunderstanding his post. By "something more," the poster you just tried to bash is intending to say "something greater," or "better," not "in addition to a Dive machine."

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Ouch, this dude found out what happens when you get your leg caught in an air gate. I wonder how this happened (too many beers)? What would possess someone to try and squeeze through a gate?

 

http://www.wkyc.com/story/news/local/northeast-ohio/2015/06/22/cedar-point-raptor-guest-injured-squeezing-through-closing-gate/29116863/

Edited by firewalk13
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^ As the article stated Cedar Point said he was trying to squeeze through an already closing air gate.

 

Let this be a lesson to everyone as to why you should never try to squeeze through an air gate that has started to close... At any park. Not just Cedar Point.

 

With that being said, hopefully his leg heals soon and he can get back to enjoy theme parks.

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2007

 

 

If my memory serves me correctly, Cedar Fair sold some property that already covers the majority of the costs towards the Hotel Breaker's renovation. Cedar Point invested $48,000,000 in the year 2000, $25,000,000 was for Millennium Force respectively. These types of investments are common in companies with large cash flows.

 

It was a figure of speech, meant to not be answered, but thanks, I'm well aware of when Maverick was built. I was standing there watching them test with the heartline roll. I've also been on I305 and don't really consider them the same. They have similar elements, but are apples and oranges.

 

On the second bit, you're missing my point. The fanboys think that the only capital investments at Cedar Point are roller coasters and thrill rides, and don't care about anything else. The point was, just because we don't see a new record-breaking coaster pop up every year, doesn't mean there isn't cash flow and capital investments being made elsewhere on the property. It would be a terrible business model to spend that much renovating the Breakers in one year, PLUS add everything the fanboys want.

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I find it funny that enthusiasts always complain that parks only build "gimmicky" rides, and then a park finally may be putting in a ride that doesn't focus on breaking height/speed records and everybody complains. Seriously, stop complaining about a new coaster when there are plenty of parks in real need of one.

 

Dive coasters are the very definition of a gimmicky ride. That's the whole problem. The drop is the ride, basically. Everything else is superfluous. It's not the kind of real substantial ride with multiple "wow" moments that will become a classic.

 

And yes, I have ridden Griffon. It's a fine ride. Smooth, and the first drop is fun. And I'll probably enjoy the new ride more than I enjoyed Gatekeeper (not that that's saying much). My only point is that this being Cedar Point, they really could do better. They need a great wooden coaster. A flying coaster would be more unique than a dive coaster, although I'm not going to wish for that because I hate B&M flying coasters. (Except, wait, didn't they build one in China recently that looks amazing? Dammit, why couldn't CP order one of those?)

 

EDIT: This. This is exactly what they should've built. I wouldn't even mind that it's a clone.

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They need a great wooden coaster.

 

How do we know they are not already working with RMC on a Mean Streak makeover? Only time will tell, but don't rule out a great wooden coaster yet. I'm sure they have it in the works already for a future installment.

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Honestly look at what CP's been doing in the past few years. If somethings not perfect their fixing it. Its stupid to think that nothing will happen to Mean Streak. At this point its more of a question of when and what then if. Either itll be torn down, RMC'd, or get a major retrack/reprofile in the next few years. No question about it in my opinion.

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It would be awesome to see RMC redo Mean Streak, the only problem is they STILL wouldn't have an awesome wooden coaster. Iron horse coasters are steel. For me it would be even more awesome to see the Gravity Group get into the renovation game and completely change Mean Streak's layout. Make it faster and lower to the ground, add some heavy laterals, and (most importantly) keep it a traditionally tracked wooden coaster. Competition got them into building inversions, so I would say anything is possible.

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CEDAR POINT TR:

I visited Cedar Point this past Friday and Saturday..... decided to take advantage of the Fast Pass Plus system as it is unlikely I will be returning anytime soon. Although the lines were not as long as I had anticipated, I definitely enjoyed being able to skip the lines, especially on Maverick, my new favorite roller coaster. My home park is Six Flags, a nice park with some thrilling coasters, but Cedar Point simply blows it out of the water. They had smoothest ride operations I had ever seen, wonderful live entertainment wherever you went, and more cleanliness than the Cleanest Theme Park in the World. And I haven't even gotten to the rides yet. Here are my reviews ranked in order of appreciation:

 

Maverick: 3 rides- I had heard lots of positive feedback about this ride, and I can see why. Right from the lift hill launch until the final airtime hill I was hooked. Combined with the ability to ride it 3 times in less than half an hour, I give this ride a solid 10/10.

Millennium Force: 2 rides- I did not find anything exceptional about Millennium Force, but then again I didn't find anything bad about it too. Great airtime in the back and some magnificent views of the park. 10/10

Magnum XL-200: 5 rides- I could hardly believe this ride had less than a 10 minute wait. Awesome airtime, especially on the second half. If this was at SFGAm it would easily top Raging Bull. 10/10

Top Thrill Dragster: 1 ride- I could only bring myself to ride this once- The sheer size of it is both amazing and terrifying. When I did ride it though, it was an adrenaline rush from start to finish. 10/10

Raptor: 3 rides- Nice, forceful B%M Invert. My first Cobra Roll was a bit of a letdown though... 9/10

GateKeeper: 2 rides- Really fun, fast, and otherwise typical wing coaster. cool keyhole inversions over the front gate. Also quite photogenic 9/10

Blue Streak: 6 rides- Though I got off to a bad start with this ride, I rode it some more and experienced some serious airtime, especially for a small roller coaster like that. Truly a classic 9/10

Rougarou: 2 rides- I also did not like this roller coaster at first, as I was really thrown around the first time. When I got back on for a second time, though, I managed to choose the right seat as all of the roughness went away and was replaced by airtime and some nice forces. Still hard to imagine as a stand up roller coaster though... 8/10. On a side note, I couldn't believe that Rougarou was a walk-on on a Saturday, even if it was June.

Gemini: 10 rides- Nice racing ride with some nice drops, especially in the back. I always seemed to choose the wrong side 8/10

Iron Dragon: 2 rides- Small, slow, but a nice break from adrenaline pumping rides like TTD or Maverick. 7/10

Wicked Twister: 1 ride- Rather bumpy, but exciting launch. 7/10

Corkscrew: 2 rides- Surprising drop and airtime hill, but the rest was jarring and painful. 6/10

Mean Streak: 3 rides- This was a quite boring ride. I found the first drop sort of thrilling but the rest was just twists and turns. There were several points in the second half of the ride where airtime hills would have been perfect but Cedar Point choose to instead put gentle drops leaving you unsatisfied. Unsatisfying is a good way to describe Mean Streak 4/10. I would actually be interested to see what Mean streak might look like as an RMC.

Alas, I did not get the kiddie credits However, I did ride some of the thrill rides there, my favorite being the Power Tower, more specifically the Shot Side. Windseeker would have given me breathtaking views of Cedar Point and Lake Erie had I not been distracted by, well, all the wind. A bit more blustery than I expected, even for a ride who's very name is Windseeker.

As for the empty plot.... I could see them taking out either the dormitories or the Cadillac Cars and that would give enough space for a coaster. The plot just seems too large for a dark ride, unless Cedar Point is planning multiple rides for next year. But I doubt that. I'm quite sure that whatever they get next year, it will be a roller coaster.

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Guys, if someone is at the point where a dive machine is too gimmicky and not interesting enough for them in the hobby, you're not going to change their minds. It's OK. They can have opinions and so can you. Personally, I'm pretty stoked about a giant new coaster next year that will work, have a line that moves, and not hurt. If you need some solace about this, you can be sure a Six Flags park or two will build something a little more "innovative" that'll push 500 people an hour in the ones that it works (which will be 60-70% of them) after opening in late June/early July.

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For me it would be even more awesome to see the Gravity Group get into the renovation game and completely change Mean Streak's layout. Make it faster and lower to the ground, add some heavy laterals, and (most importantly) keep it a traditionally tracked wooden coaster. Competition got them into building inversions, so I would say anything is possible.

 

Haha I've said the same thing for the past few years. Even though RMC's stuff is really awesome, seeing what Gravity Group could do with a layout like that would be pretty interesting, too. They would probably turn it into something really similar to the Cú Chulainn Coaster in Ireland but bigger and even more speedy.

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