Kings Island (KI) Discussion Thread

[beatle11]

Arrow coasters are just going to get harder and more expensive to maintain so it makes sense that they would be considered for replacement in the near future. I'm glad I got those credits!

[Guy T. Koepp]

On a side note, Viper at MM seems to be holding up rather well. I get consistently great rides on it time in and time out. They seem to be doing a great job of maintaining it. I am in agreement with the previous poster that said "Some coaster design company could potentially benefit from creating prefab pieces to replace currently failing parts and track/structure." On that note, I thought S&S had bought the Arrow design specs and was currently doing this to some extent. Actually, if memory serves, isn't X/X2 an S&S/Arrow design?

 

Guy "When I say if memory serves, usually it means I'm talking out my ass." Koepp

[simaticable]

X2 is of Arrow design, but the new cars were made by S&S.

[firewalk13]

I've not been to KI and I'd be sorely disappointed if I never got to ride Vortex. Last time I was anywhere near a Arrow mega looper it was SFMM's Viper it's opening season and I was too short to ride...

[IronWolfman]

I think maybe S&S or Vekoma (With New Trains) could do some good to these classics...

[Arrow Dynamics fan]

AAARRRGGG!!! NOT AGAIN!!! Can't this lousy year just end without causing me anymore misery!? Why does it have to be my favorite coaster? There are 50 lousy Boomerangs in existence, wipe some of them out for crying out loud, not my Arrows!

 

Okay, now that I got that out. I have rode Vortex 9 times last year and 5 times this year. Like all Arrows, if you know how to ride them, they are amazing. I had little to no problems. The only ride I can think of in this segment that would be an upgrade in terms of intensity would be something like Maverick but even then CP already has it. B&M whatever doesn't have the intensity that this does and they are becoming Boring & Monotonous with each addition. I'll tell you what isn't aging well is Diamondback, that thing vibrates more than the Boss with its Gerstlauer trains.

 

Seriously, why can't some company whether it is S&S, Chance-Morgan, Vekoma, or even Premier be used to retrack these and build some trains that will satisfy the people whom hate the old ones. I would much rather ride this with whatever trains than anything those companies have been making (I reserve judgement on the 4th Dimensional coaster until after I ride it).

[Myself]

Morgan did quite well with the Phantom's Revenge in 2009 when all remaining Arrow track from the top of the lift hill on was replaced. I don't think CF would go this route, but it's certainly possible and it would produce a decent end result.

 

Then again, Morgan (to my knowledge) has not made any inverting coaster track, but I don't see why that would be an issue.

[CoasterGuy06]

^While it was several years after Phantom's revenge opened, you could argue replacing the lift track was really part of building an entire new coaster. You just did it in two phases. It probably doesn't make financial sense for a park like KI or KD to replace large amounts of track for a ride that won't move the attendance meter while just replacing the coasters with a new one can increase attendance/revenue.

[cfc]

Okay, now that I got that out. I have rode Vortex 9 times last year and 5 times this year. Like all Arrows, if you know how to ride them, they are amazing. I had little to no problems. The only ride I can think of in this segment that would be an upgrade in terms of intensity would be something like Maverick but even then CP already has it. B&M whatever doesn't have the intensity that this does and they are becoming Boring & Monotonous with each addition. I'll tell you what isn't aging well is Diamondback, that thing vibrates more than the Boss with its Gerstlauer trains.

 

I've never been convinced by the "if you know how to ride them" argument. My take is that any coaster that you must "know how to ride" isn't aging well or wasn't particularly well designed in the first place. I agree with you about the newer B&M rides not being particularly interesting, though (I think Hair Raiser at Ocean Park is an exception).

[Ed Farmer]

 

I've never been convinced by the "if you know how to ride them" argument. My take is that any coaster that you must "know how to ride" isn't aging well or wasn't particularly well designed in the first place. I agree with you about the newer B&M rides not being particularly interesting, though (I think Hair Raiser at Ocean Park is an exception).

 

"If you know how to ride them" is misleading. I think the gist of it would be to avoid completely relaxing your muscles/going limp so that the rider isn't thrown around by the forces they're encountering. A rag doll is probably the best example of what (I think) is meant whenever that phrase is tossed around.

 

"If you know how to ride them" reminds me of a lake that notoriously sucks as a fishing spot, but a few questionable locals swear by it because "you just have to use a particular bait and casting technique but you have to make sure it's the 3rd Wednesday of the month between 3:00 AM and 4:00 AM. And you have to make sure you're wearing a green hat."

[cfc]

^For me, it's still code for "this ride is very bad." But to each his or her own.

[SFOGdude25]

Here's a quick detour from KI's Twitter.

Son of Beast's first drop is now half-demolished. Not too much left to go!

[rollin_n_coastin]

How do you re-track a steel coaster, without building a new coaster?

 

Agreed that Phantom's Revenge is an entirely new coaster.

 

In any case, I really thought it wasn't possible but Vortex has to be the worst Arrow coaster that I've ever been on. I tried that, "Maybe if I ride it correctly or in the best part of the train" theory after riding it an excruciating four times in one day since I was with Vortex's biggest fan that day

 

No position or seat made a difference. GASM was and Anaconda is as smooth as butter in comparison.

[A.J.]

My take is that any coaster that you must "know how to ride" isn't aging well or wasn't particularly well designed in the first place.

Absolutely! You shouldn't have to put yourself in brace positions to ride roller coasters. They're designed to be ridden in an upright position with your back against the seat (there are exceptions, of course).

[apatos99]

AAARRRGGG!!! NOT AGAIN!!! Can't this lousy year just end without causing me anymore misery!? Why does it have to be my favorite coaster? There are 50 lousy Boomerangs in existence, wipe some of them out for crying out loud, not my Arrows!

 

It was an amazing coaster back in the day, but now its simply old, and while historic, its not a classic. I'm only in favor of its removal, if they replace it with another coaster, and oh yes I want an BM invert. Paint it black and orange and call it the Bat!

 

Of course I'm also hoping they replace SOB with either a Maverick type coaster or something from Rocky Mountain. I'm still drooling over the Iron Rattler!

[Vekoma_Man]

I love Vortex. I rode it my first time at Kings Island in the dark during the fireworks and it wasn't rough at all. Of course, my home park growing up was Six Flags St. Louis and anything is smooth compared to Ninja.

[ajfelice]

Vortex was an ejoyable ride after I grew up enough that my head cleared the OTSR. What keeps it memorable in my book is that it has a spectacular first drop by Arrow standards. Another nice thing about the first drop is the fact it the layout doesn't go right into inversions; there is a nice, swooping turn after climbing the second hill. The loops are always fun, the corkscrews have good hangtime, the batwing has a neat location, and the helix finale is a little more intense than it looks. The elements may be cookie-cutter, but Vortex got it right.

 

HOWEVER, with all that nice stuff I said, you would think I would campaign against removal, I'm not. Vortex is aging and probably getting costly, the ride very good but not amazing, and there isn't a really iconic steel coaster in the park besides Diamondback. The land Vortex occupies has some very unique opportunities as well. There is huge potential for the predicted replacement. I see opportunity as not only an inverted coaster, but maybe a Maverick/Fahrenheit-esque sit-down. Also, a twisted prefab, Rocky Mtn., Gravity Group, or Great Coasters International woodie would be an awesome neighbor for The Beast next door. Actually, the more I think about it, the more I would like to see a modern wooden coaster in that location if Vortex were to retire.

[mcjaco]

I rode Vortex in 1992. I haven't missed it since.

[theonetheonlyJT]

I could see a double digit inversion coaster from Intamin being a good replacement or a Maverick type coaster. As for the replacement of SOB I guessing a B&M giga for 2014.

[Geauga Dog]

I love Vortex as well and would hate to see it go but I understand if it has to. I still think it's quite popular after all these years. The only worthy replacement would be another multi-looper to fill that void.

 

I'd miss it and its towering presence at the far end of Coney Mall.

[DBru]

I just hope they reuse the station.

[Arrow Dynamics fan]

Okay, now that I got that out. I have rode Vortex 9 times last year and 5 times this year. Like all Arrows, if you know how to ride them, they are amazing. I had little to no problems. The only ride I can think of in this segment that would be an upgrade in terms of intensity would be something like Maverick but even then CP already has it. B&M whatever doesn't have the intensity that this does and they are becoming Boring & Monotonous with each addition. I'll tell you what isn't aging well is Diamondback, that thing vibrates more than the Boss with its Gerstlauer trains.

 

I've never been convinced by the "if you know how to ride them" argument. My take is that any coaster that you must "know how to ride" isn't aging well or wasn't particularly well designed in the first place.

Well then, I guess the Batman and the Raptor aren't aging well or not particularly well designed in the first place, because not only have I had some issues with them but I have read others express such. Or heck, I had more head banging with the Maverick (I don't fault it because Intamin for some reason actually has a soft OTSR that doesn't hurt).

 

Arrows are not that hard to ride correctly. You just need to have the restraint as tight as possible, sit as tall as possible pressing your shoulder up against the restraint to reduce movement, put exert pressure inwardly on the handles to ensure you stay as centered as possible.

 

Again, why not instead come up with a solution that is a compromise like modifying the trains or if need be have new trains with lap bar restraints.

 

While this despite this being their oldest steel coaster that it still ranked 4th in terms of rides for this year, I would say it that still draws people in and would be worth a refresh. It was because of this coaster & the Flight Deck that I came to KI the last two years. No B&M will accomplish this.

[GayCoasterGuy]

Let's not forget MACK and Gerstlauer are becoming bigger and bigger with steel loopers. They are capable of building a more "classic looper" (2 across seating) than anyone else.

 

Vortex was ok in it's first few years, but those curves and transitions always hurt. If they could replace the trains with nice lap bars models of some sort (and perhaps make a few other changes) - that could make a great ride. But I doubt CF/KI would go that route. CF is more about scrapping things...

[GigaG]

I like Arrows for the coathanger track, at least when it provides airtime (Magnum, anybody?), and Vortex is a decent ride. I hope it doesn't go - I mean, other Arrow coasters are older than it, but I guess every ride gets torn down sometime.

[ginzo]

I'm loving the Ouimet era of Cedar Fair: Adding a paid queue skipping option, changing the chain over to Coke products, and getting rid of terrible rides like Vortex and SOB. What's not to like? This is one CEO who is definitely earning his comp.