Six Flags [FUN] Corporate Discussion Thread

[sfkk]

I really hope that Duffey will continue that tradition that he established with the CEO in the announcement videos. Probably not though.

[CoasterGuy06]

Jim Reid-Anderson could still keep doing the announcements as the "Executive Chairman."

[SFOG1991]

It's great that ticket revenue is up (as long as that is translating well in terms of overall profits. Revenue is not profit) and that attendance is up, but both those can be bad things long term.

 

If Six Flags is going to aggressively push for higher attendance as they have been, they need to have the ride capacity and service capacity to manage it. I spent many days last season at PACKED Six Flags parks with 3 hour lines and I also had to wait 1 hour and 15 minutes for chicken strips..............

 

The article mentions that season pass and memberships account for 56% of attendance. I think that may be more a problem than a good thing. Six Flags has made season passes and memberships painfully cheap while raising ticket prices. What do we get from that? Overcrowding of parks that can't manage the crowd they are dealing with.

 

I know it isn't this simple, but if Six Flags found a way to operate where season passes were $100 instead of $50, I would happily pay.

 

Cedar Fair holds strong pricing and introduces rides that for the most part have a large capacity. Their new food court concept also manages crowds well. I am not a fan of Cedar Fair overall but they seem to have a much stronger long term plan while Six Flags seems interested in just growing revenue and attendance at any cost.

 

I am not an expert on the topic so if I am wrong I won't be offended, that is just how I see it. I would love to hear what other people here think.

 

I'm glad the company is doing well though.

[strz]

It's great that ticket revenue is up (as long as that is translating well in terms of overall profits. Revenue is not profit) and that attendance is up, but both those can be bad things long term.

 

If Six Flags is going to aggressively push for higher attendance as they have been, they need to have the ride capacity and service capacity to manage it. I spent many days last season at PACKED Six Flags parks with 3 hour lines and I also had to wait 1 hour and 15 minutes for chicken strips..............

 

The article mentions that season pass and memberships account for 56% of attendance. I think that may be more a problem than a good thing. Six Flags has made season passes and memberships painfully cheap while raising ticket prices. What do we get from that? Overcrowding of parks that can't manage the crowd they are dealing with.

 

I know it isn't this simple, but if Six Flags found a way to operate where season passes were $100 instead of $50, I would happily pay.

 

Cedar Fair holds strong pricing and introduces rides that for the most part have a large capacity. Their new food court concept also manages crowds well. I am not a fan of Cedar Fair overall but they seem to have a much stronger long term plan while Six Flags seems interested in just growing revenue and attendance at any cost.

 

I am not an expert on the topic so if I am wrong I won't be offended, that is just how I see it. I would love to hear what other people here think.

 

I'm glad the company is doing well though.

 

Since you asked for feedback.....

 

I think you objectively stated your POV, and right/wrong or indifferent- SF has strategically chosen the business model you (and others) have posted here:

 

- use 8-9% of the profits for future capital projects, in order to keep their parks (across the country) exciting, and driving home the reason the GP should come back again; the "downside" to this is that (short-term) we can expect more carnival rides getting installed in parks (like the new one they are building on the lake at SFGA) vs. what we all speculate/hope for (the next El Toro, T-Rex, etc.)

- use season passes as a "loss leader" to drive attendance, and offset the low admission margins through parking revenue, food, flash passes, etc.

- like you, I'd prefer if they could meet their profitability expectations via higher season pass/daily ticket revenues (i.e.- Season passes at $100/each vs. $50/each).....however, not the route they are going- nor do I think the GP would be receptive to higher prices (most people say they'd pay more money to reduce lines, however- how come so many people don't purchase flash passes then???)

- regarding low season pass costs.....you are correct- driving more people into the parks should help revenues, however- this comes at the risk that "customer satisfaction" hurts the brand long-term. Like you- I find that there is nothing worse than long lines for rides, and for food purchases!

 

Living near SFGA my whole life (and have a season pass since the '80's), I too "root" for their success. I appreciate how other parks/regional chains run their businesses/parks.....but thrill rides are my #1 priority- thus there lives my loyalty with the SF brand.

 

Good topic! Hope the comments keep coming......

[SFOG1991]

^So we are basically on the same page with our thoughts. I agree it would be very hard for them to dig themselves out of the "value" hole they have created, and I am glad it is working for them, but I think long term that could collapse unless they are very strategic in slowly altering their long term plan. Maybe the value aspect to drive revenue and attendance is just a phase of their real plan, which could be more like what we are suggesting, or maybe not, who knows. I just can't imagine the constant strive to outdo themselves with pricing while putting customer experience and service on the back burner being a good plan long term.

 

I don't mind the way they are investing into the parks but I do think they should put a little more emphasis on increasing capacity.

[ytterbiumanalyst]

I'm not sure what kinds of agreements they have, but I imagine their advertisement revenue is tied to attendance. More eyeballs on the adverts is worth more. That's how broadcast ratings work. So they could be making more money from adverts with a higher attendance, even if those guests don't spend more themselves.

[strz]

^So we are basically on the same page with our thoughts. I agree it would be very hard for them to dig themselves out of the "value" hole they have created, and I am glad it is working for them, but I think long term that could collapse unless they are very strategic in slowly altering their long term plan. Maybe the value aspect to drive revenue and attendance is just a phase of their real plan, which could be more like what we are suggesting, or maybe not, who knows. I just can't imagine the constant strive to outdo themselves with pricing while putting customer experience and service on the back burner being a good plan long term.

 

I don't mind the way they are investing into the parks but I do think they should put a little more emphasis on increasing capacity.

 

That we are! And yes- there is (like most service/entertainment/retail businesses) a "fine line" relative to managing expenses to be profitable, while not harming customer satisfaction.

 

On the subject of expenses/profitability- the General Manager's for each park are aware that long lines that often occur at concession stands, rides, etc. They also see the potholes in park lots, weeds in the landscaping, fresh paint needed, just as we do! With that- they do care, however- have an expense budget allocated to them, that cannot be exceeded....and with the right management team in place, the parks run well. SF margins do not allow everything to be a pristine as a Disney park.....different business model, and different expectations with the GP. Am I happy about that? No!- as I'd love a SF park to have the level of staffing and upkeep as a Disney, but again- the business model does not allow that.

[Rollercoaster Rider]

^So we are basically on the same page with our thoughts. I agree it would be very hard for them to dig themselves out of the "value" hole they have created, and I am glad it is working for them, but I think long term that could collapse unless they are very strategic in slowly altering their long term plan. Maybe the value aspect to drive revenue and attendance is just a phase of their real plan, which could be more like what we are suggesting, or maybe not, who knows. I just can't imagine the constant strive to outdo themselves with pricing while putting customer experience and service on the back burner being a good plan long term.

 

I don't mind the way they are investing into the parks but I do think they should put a little more emphasis on increasing capacity.

 

That we are! And yes- there is (like most service/entertainment/retail businesses) a "fine line" relative to managing expenses to be profitable, while not harming customer satisfaction.

 

On the subject of expenses/profitability- the General Manager's for each park are aware that long lines that often occur at concession stands, rides, etc. They also see the potholes in park lots, weeds in the landscaping, fresh paint needed, just as we do! With that- they do care, however- have an expense budget allocated to them, that cannot be exceeded....and with the right management team in place, the parks run well. SF margins do not allow everything to be a pristine as a Disney park.....different business model, and different expectations with the GP. Am I happy about that? No!- as I'd love a SF park to have the level of staffing and upkeep as a Disney, but again- the business model does not allow that.

 

 

Disney isn't pristine or does upkeep all the time either. Also they are cutting staffing due to Shanghai going over budget.

[SFOG1991]

^So we are basically on the same page with our thoughts. I agree it would be very hard for them to dig themselves out of the "value" hole they have created, and I am glad it is working for them, but I think long term that could collapse unless they are very strategic in slowly altering their long term plan. Maybe the value aspect to drive revenue and attendance is just a phase of their real plan, which could be more like what we are suggesting, or maybe not, who knows. I just can't imagine the constant strive to outdo themselves with pricing while putting customer experience and service on the back burner being a good plan long term.

 

I don't mind the way they are investing into the parks but I do think they should put a little more emphasis on increasing capacity.

 

That we are! And yes- there is (like most service/entertainment/retail businesses) a "fine line" relative to managing expenses to be profitable, while not harming customer satisfaction.

 

On the subject of expenses/profitability- the General Manager's for each park are aware that long lines that often occur at concession stands, rides, etc. They also see the potholes in park lots, weeds in the landscaping, fresh paint needed, just as we do! With that- they do care, however- have an expense budget allocated to them, that cannot be exceeded....and with the right management team in place, the parks run well. SF margins do not allow everything to be a pristine as a Disney park.....different business model, and different expectations with the GP. Am I happy about that? No!- as I'd love a SF park to have the level of staffing and upkeep as a Disney, but again- the business model does not allow that.

I agree completely but my point is that by continuing to push season passes at lower and lower costs, while driving up attendance, they are digging a hole. It is great that they are up in revenue and attendance (suggesting end all profits are up) but if they are making more, corporate is hopefully considering the fact that there is a direct need to spend more in service quality and crowd control to coincide with that. Lowering season pass prices and driving up attendance really isn't that hard of a concept, so what I am saying is I hope they have a game plan to equally drive up service and attraction capacity to at least match that, or else they are digging themselves into a hole long term if quality of service falls, customer satisfaction decreases, and the Six Flags brand reputation changes for the worse.

 

As I said, it is great they are doing well but it seems like the direction they are going in could be damaging long term if they don't properly address the issue of driving up attendance without driving up capacity. They may already be doing this and I am sure they have smart people addressing this, but when you compare to someone like Cedar Fair it just seems apparent that their long term growth and success has a solid plan behind it with the way they invest while Six Flags seems heart set on spending less and bringing in more people. I am not a fan of Cedar Fair and the way they invest into their parks but it just seems from my view to make a lot more sense.

[livai]

I disagree, six flags invests all the way parks (more or less) fair.

cedar no fair. It has its flagship parks, leaving the crumbs to others (see michigan adventure park and dorney)

[coasterbill]

I disagree, six flags invests all the way parks (more or less) fair.

cedar no fair. It has its flagship parks, leaving the crumbs to others (see michigan adventure park and dorney)

 

I know, I hate it when companies choose to invest in things that they expect to provide a return on their investment rather than blowing it on things that they don't expect to pay off as well. It's "unfair".

[larrygator]

Those in non-Six Flags markets might not be aware but Six Flags, "Flash Sale" for 2017 season passes is currently going on through September 5th. These are the lowest prices that will be offered. However, keep in mind most of the parks have deadline dates, by which you you to process your pass to get the maximum benefits. i.e. SFGAdv must be processed by October 31st.

 

For those that don't have 2016 passes, these 2017 passes will be active immediately to include the remainder of 2016.

Edited September 1, 2016 by larrygator

[9Armgeddon4]

The deadline at SFGAm is November 6th. The last day the park is open this season.

[prozach626]

I disagree, six flags invests all the way parks (more or less) fair.

cedar no fair. It has its flagship parks, leaving the crumbs to others (see michigan adventure park and dorney)

 

Six Flags St. Louis

[livai]

nope

[WOFanatic]

I disagree, six flags invests all the way parks (more or less) fair.

cedar no fair. It has its flagship parks, leaving the crumbs to others (see michigan adventure park and dorney)

 

Six Flags St. Louis

Didn't Six Flags St. Louis get one of the most innovative dark rides of all time in 2015? Or am I wrong?

[SixFlagsAstroworld]

I disagree, six flags invests all the way parks (more or less) fair.

cedar no fair. It has its flagship parks, leaving the crumbs to others (see michigan adventure park and dorney)

 

Six Flags St. Louis

Didn't Six Flags St. Louis get one of the most innovative dark rides of all time in 2015? Or am I wrong?

 

That's a good point

[Rollercoaster Rider]

Was I the only person to find John Duffy stilted and boring?

[Superbatboy]

Was I the only person to find John Duffy stilted and boring?

No, he's a snooze fest

[Rollercoaster Rider]

Was I the only person to find John Duffy stilted and boring?

No, he's a snooze fest

 

Not only did he make me miss Jim's Announcement, But he made me miss the Faile Family from Beaver Creek Ohio (Cedar Point's 2014 announcement)

[TrippinBillie]

I disagree, six flags invests all the way parks (more or less) fair.

cedar no fair. It has its flagship parks, leaving the crumbs to others (see michigan adventure park and dorney)

 

Six Flags St. Louis

Didn't Six Flags St. Louis get one of the most innovative dark rides of all time in 2015? Or am I wrong?

 

 

CRYING laughing. "Most innovative dark rides of all time". PLEASE tell me you're being sarcastic!

[boldikus]

Was I the only person to find John Duffy stilted and boring?

 

Totally awkward and it made me miss Jimmy R.A. to be honest LMAO.

[DILinator]

Was I the only person to find John Duffy stilted and boring?

No, he's a snooze fest

 

Not only did he make me miss Jim's Announcement, But he made me miss the Faile Family from Beaver Creek Ohio (Cedar Point's 2014 announcement)

 

 

This here speaks volumes! That family was very aptly named!

 

As for Duffy, yeah, it wasn't very good, but it was his first year. Hopefully, he'll do better in future years, assuming they let him do it in future years!

[prozach626]

I disagree, six flags invests all the way parks (more or less) fair.

cedar no fair. It has its flagship parks, leaving the crumbs to others (see michigan adventure park and dorney)

 

Six Flags St. Louis

Didn't Six Flags St. Louis get one of the most innovative dark rides of all time in 2015? Or am I wrong?

 

Yes and it completely compliments the 27 year old used boomerang the park recently received in order to cover the deficit of the last modern steel roller coaster to be installed in almost 20 years.

[Rollercoaster Rider]

What I would have added to Six Flags in 2017 (Using the Same type of attractions)

 

Six Flags Over Texas- S&S Free Spin

Six Flags Over Georgia- Sally Justice League

Six Flags St. Louis- Zamperla Giant Discovery

Six Flags Great Adventure- Sally Justice League

Six Flags Magic Mountain- Sally Justice League

Six Flags Great America- Funtime 240ft Star Flyer

Great Escape- Zamperla Disk O

Six Flags Discovery Kingdom- S&S Free Spin

Six Flags New England- 2 Body Slides (Or Whatever Great Escape is Getting)

Six Flags America- S&S Free Spin

Six Flags Fiesta Texas- Proslide Rocket Slide, Parade

Six Flags México- New Parade

La Ronde- Zamperla Giant Discovery