The Knott's Berry Farm (KBF) Discussion Thread

[Jew]

I'm just playing devils advocate and assuming the rumor is true. I personally don't believe with Matt Ouimet in charge the ride will leave anytime soon (he's big on nostalgia being part of the KBF experience), but I also don't think it is such a crazy idea to remove it either.

[coasterbill]

I'm just playing devils advocate and assuming the rumor is true. I personally don't believe with Matt Ouimet in charge the ride will leave anytime soon (he's big on nostalgia being part of the KBF experience), but I also don't think it is such a crazy idea to remove it either.

 

Gotcha. I kind of disagree with you on the fact that it's not a crazy idea to remove it though. None of us have any information about operating costs or ridership numbers but it's such an incredibly compact ride that it seems like it would be kind of nuts to remove it unless ridership is tremendously low or operating costs are tremendously high. Could they fit something like a Free Spin or Tempesto clone there? Sure, but they could easily find another spot to put one of them too that wouldn't require them removing anything. I do understand that a lot of parks like to remove costly rides when adding new ones even when it's not really in the way of the new ride to help offset the operating costs (take Space Spiral being removed for Gatekeeper at Cedar Point for example), but I feel like this park is so landlocked and compact that they wouldn't want to remove a coaster unless it's incredibly unpopular or takes up a large amount of expansion room (I'm looking at you Boomerang).

[Hilltopper39]

I'm just playing devils advocate and assuming the rumor is true. I personally don't believe with Matt Ouimet in charge the ride will leave anytime soon (he's big on nostalgia being part of the KBF experience), but I also don't think it is such a crazy idea to remove it either.

 

Gotcha. I kind of disagree with you on the fact that it's not a crazy idea to remove it though. None of us have any information about operating costs or ridership numbers but it's such an incredibly compact ride that it seems like it would be kind of nuts to remove it unless ridership is tremendously low or operating costs are tremendously high. Could they fit something like a Free Spin or Tempesto clone there? Sure, but they could easily find another spot to put one of them too that wouldn't require them removing anything. I do understand that a lot of parks like to remove costly rides when adding new ones even when it's not really in the way of the new ride to help offset the operating costs (take Space Spiral being removed for Gatekeeper at Cedar Point for example), but I feel like this park is so landlocked and compact that they wouldn't want to remove a coaster unless it's incredibly unpopular or takes up a large amount of expansion room (I'm looking at you Boomerang).

 

Outside of operating costs and ridership numbers, ya gotta remember that if Knott's doesn't remove Montezuma then Dorney will never get get Laser's Revenge in 2018.........

[Jew]

I'm just playing devils advocate and assuming the rumor is true. I personally don't believe with Matt Ouimet in charge the ride will leave anytime soon (he's big on nostalgia being part of the KBF experience), but I also don't think it is such a crazy idea to remove it either.

 

Gotcha. I kind of disagree with you on the fact that it's not a crazy idea to remove it though. None of us have any information about operating costs or ridership numbers but it's such an incredibly compact ride that it seems like it would be kind of nuts to remove it unless ridership is tremendously low or operating costs are tremendously high. Could they fit something like a Free Spin or Tempesto clone there? Sure, but they could easily find another spot to put one of them too that wouldn't require them removing anything. I do understand that a lot of parks like to remove costly rides when adding new ones even when it's not really in the way of the new ride to help offset the operating costs (take Space Spiral being removed for Gatekeeper at Cedar Point for example), but I feel like this park is so landlocked and compact that they wouldn't want to remove a coaster unless it's incredibly unpopular or takes up a large amount of expansion room (I'm looking at you Boomerang).

 

Yeah, it's all speculation. My thoughts are that if you could "upgrade" (entirely subjective to us as coaster nerds---since most of us think it's still a good ride) to a newer ride that still fits within the compact footprint of Monte, why waste space elsewhere?

 

Adding to the "we're all coaster nerds speculating" discussion: without proper manufacturer support, God forbid if something were to go wrong....Cedar Fair is on the hook. That could be one of the many determining factors.

[MicrosoftExcel]

Didn't Mack modernize Psych Underground at that one Walibi park? Hopefully Knott's goes that route when the time comes.

[SoCalJasonland]

I'm confused, shouldn't the fact that they're giving the ride a fresh coat of paint solidify the fact that it's not going anywhere for the foreseeable future? They wouldn't dump money into aesthetic improvements if the ride was on the chopping block.

 

My guess is that Monte got painted because it looked so faded and sat right behind the new Sol Spin ride so they are trying to make the area look nicer. There were a couple rumors floating around that Monte or Boomerang was being removed for the next coaster but neither seems to have been conformed by anyone. We are just having fun speculating at this point and it could be a couple of years before we get a new coaster anyway. Knott's has saved rides like GhostRider, Log Ride, Mine Train and Sky Cabin and did a decent job but they have largely run out of space so at some point they will remove again.

[Guy T. Koepp]

^Again with the space arguement. Is Knott's pretty much land locked? Yes. But, if they wanted to put a ride in without removing anything, they will figure out a way to do it. And honestly, it wouldn't be that hard.

[Superbatboy]

No such thing as landlocked

 

 

[Mater]

I can't wait until Marine World paves over that lake. Imagine how many coasters you could fit out there!

 

 

Probably one or two.

[thrillseeker4552]

I visited the park on Sunday and grabbed some photos of Monte's re-paint. Looks like it's gonna be orange (like there aren't enough orange coasters in the park). Never got around to posting the photos until now.

[Nrthwnd]

^ Ha! I totally forgot about the train running beside it, through the train's own tunnel, lol.

 

Thanks for sharing your photos.

[Vonni]

No such thing as landlocked

 

 

 

 

I love when people share this example for the argument of lack of space!

[coasterbill]

My guess is that Monte got painted because it looked so faded and sat right behind the new Sol Spin ride so they are trying to make the area look nicer.

 

Sure, but I still don't see them painting it if they were planning to remove it in the near future. That makes absolutely no sense, whatsoever.

[michaellynn4]

Sure, but I still don't see them painting it if they were planning to remove it in the near future. That makes absolutely no sense, whatsoever.

 

I don't know, based on the cost analysis provided in the Darien Lake forum, painting coasters is a steal:

 

I had some spare time and I know some people here talked about Ride Of Steel being being repainted. I just calculated how much it would cost to repaint Ride Of Steel. It would take about 62 gallons of paint the track and about another 60 to paint the supports. So, assuming they are using Sherwin Williams brand paint, it is $45 per gallon. So, 45 multiplied by 122 is 5,490. Thus it will cost $5,490 to repaint Ride Of Steel. I simply put this here FYI (and I had the miracle of having that much spare time).

[coasterbill]

[CaptainUnknown]

My guess is that Monte got painted because it looked so faded and sat right behind the new Sol Spin ride so they are trying to make the area look nicer.

 

Sure, but I still don't see them painting it if they were planning to remove it in the near future. That makes absolutely no sense, whatsoever.

 

Thunder Road's retracking establishes precedence. I hope Monte stays at Knotts until I can get out there, otherwise I'd love to see it at Knoebels.

[ytterbiumanalyst]

I don't know; retracking a coaster is pretty cheap too. According to decks.com's cost calculator, Thunder Road, which is 7,638 feet of track, would need 1,458 12 foot 2x6's. Now there are 8 layers of wood, so that's 11,664 2x6's. Lowe's has these for $13.77 each, so that's $160,613.28

 

Sources:

www.decks.com/calculators/floor/

www.lowes.com/pd/Top-Choice-Common-2-in-x-6-in-x-12-ft-Actual-1-5-in-x-5-5-in-x-12-ft-Pressure-Treated-Lumber/50017294

[coasterbill]

Thunder Road's retracking establishes precedence.

 

Kind of, but if I remember correctly what was still 3-4 years before the removal of the ride (correct me if I'm wrong). More importantly though (if my timeline is correct) it happened well before the park, county and city worked out a deal that ended with the park receiving almost a million dollars in incentives for their ambitious $50 million expansion. Had that never happened it's possible that the water park expansion wouldn't have been as ambitious. Maybe it would have, but a lot of things happened at Carowinds between the decision to re-track Thunder Road and it's eventual removal that were unique to that park. It was also located on a prime piece of real estate and seemed to have very low ridership compared to the other rides in the park. At the same time, the Carowinds water park was almost comically under-sized and crappy. The removal of Thunder Road was a no-brainer.

[thrillseeker4552]

Thunder Road's retracking establishes precedence.

 

Kind of, but if I remember correctly what was still 3-4 years before the removal of the ride (correct me if I'm wrong). More importantly though (if my timeline is correct) it happened well before the park, county and city worked out a deal that ended with the park receiving almost a million dollars in incentives for their ambitious $50 million expansion. Had that never happened it's possible that the water park expansion wouldn't have been as ambitious. Maybe it would have, but a lot of things happened at Carowinds between the decision to re-track Thunder Road and it's eventual removal that were unique to that park. It was also located on a prime piece of real estate and seemed to have very low ridership compared to the other rides in the park. At the same time, the Carowinds water park was almost comically under-sized and crappy. The removal of Thunder Road was a no-brainer.

 

I think you hit the nail on the head. Thunder Road was on prime real estate, while Monte most definitely is not.

 

I'm not totally sure how I feel about the orange considering the park has a plethora of orange rides, but I'll save my judgement for when the ride is completely re-painted. So glad to see it receive some much-needed love.

[CaptainUnknown]

Thunder Road's retracking establishes precedence.

 

Kind of, but if I remember correctly what was still 3-4 years before the removal of the ride (correct me if I'm wrong). More importantly though (if my timeline is correct) it happened well before the park, county and city worked out a deal that ended with the park receiving almost a million dollars in incentives for their ambitious $50 million expansion. Had that never happened it's possible that the water park expansion wouldn't have been as ambitious. Maybe it would have, but a lot of things happened at Carowinds between the decision to re-track Thunder Road and it's eventual removal that were unique to that park. It was also located on a prime piece of real estate and seemed to have very low ridership compared to the other rides in the park. At the same time, the Carowinds water park was almost comically under-sized and crappy. The removal of Thunder Road was a no-brainer.

 

I think you hit the nail on the head. Thunder Road was on prime real estate, while Monte most definitely is not.

 

98% of precedence revoked. That 2% is in case it does (hopefully not) get removed/relocated.

[larrygator]

Thunder Road's retracking establishes precedence.

 

Kind of, but if I remember correctly what was still 3-4 years before the removal of the ride (correct me if I'm wrong). More importantly though (if my timeline is correct) it happened well before the park, county and city worked out a deal that ended with the park receiving almost a million dollars in incentives for their ambitious $50 million expansion. Had that never happened it's possible that the water park expansion wouldn't have been as ambitious. Maybe it would have, but a lot of things happened at Carowinds between the decision to re-track Thunder Road and it's eventual removal that were unique to that park. It was also located on a prime piece of real estate and seemed to have very low ridership compared to the other rides in the park. At the same time, the Carowinds water park was almost comically under-sized and crappy. The removal of Thunder Road was a no-brainer.

 

I think you hit the nail on the head. Thunder Road was on prime real estate, while Monte most definitely is not.

 

98% of precedence revoked. That 2% is in case it does (hopefully not) get removed/relocated.

 

Then I'll use Rolling Thunder (at SFGAdv) as a precedent. It ran like crap for well over a decade. Then they finally got it right with the retrack, only to remove it within one year. Granted it was nowhere as popular as Montezooma's Revenge. And I'm not buying the need for a path to Zumanjaro, they could have fit a path in without taking out Rolling Thunder.

[michaellynn4]

Weren't the issues with Rolling Thunder more structural in nature? From what I understand, the right side couldn't reopen without significant repairs to the structure, and management felt it was more cost-effective to remove the coaster rather than repair it.

[larrygator]

Weren't the issues with Rolling Thunder more structural in nature? From what I understand, the right side couldn't reopen without significant repairs to the structure, and management felt it was more cost-effective to remove the coaster rather than repair it.

 

I don't recall, but it did reopen with the retracking, but I don't know all the facts. Just that they invested in a retracking but then didn't run it very long afterwards.

 

In the end it can all be summed up in "enthusiasts don't know all the facts" My apologies for continuing the off topic discussion.

 

Thanks to Chris and Joey for their input as I do believe Montezooma's Revenge will run as long as it is cost efficient for KBF. But with the trend in Schwarzkopf's being removed it is understandable why it becomes a constant rumor.

[KnottsBerryMountain]

Montezooma's Revenge will have orange track and greenish color supports.

[thrillseeker4552]

Montezooma's Revenge will have orange track and greenish color supports.

 

That's what I suspected since there was a little bit of dark green on the front spike supports if you look at my photos a couple pages back.

 

I rather like Rougarou's color scheme, so if it's along those lines I'm a happy camper. Wonder if they're gonna repaint/restyle the train as well or pull a SFMM and leave it alone (looking at you, Scream).