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The Knott's Berry Farm (KBF) Discussion Thread


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Yeah...I'm sure what it amounts to (again, assuming the worst that the rumor is true) is that the cost to maintain the ride isn't worth it if the rides popularity has dwindled (based on whatever metric they use) and they decide they can replace it with something better.

However, I feel it would be hard to find a ride that would be as popular that would fit in that space.

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Not to derail this thread any further, but a huge part of the problem is there not anything actually tough about them. They exist, and some businesses (like Knotts when they were open for all their fo

Toughest mask mandates in the country for months and months. When will masks start working? 

Here's some random night shots from Taste of Merry Farm.   Camp Snoopy looked the best at night, imo.  I guess I like the lights up the trees thing the best.      The Bear-Y Tales

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"Popular" is a word that is hard to define since none of us are members of KBF management. They'd be the ones with the guest survey information or information on how many riders it gets each year.

 

That being said, again, assuming the rumor is true...I can promise you they have enough space for whatever it is they want to replace it with. That is what people get paid a lot of money to figure out for them. Using my amateur google earth skills, shuffling some things around in Camp Snoopy, using the backstage space behind Monte, and strategically placing footers/track on walkways/weaving through Jaguar could easily leave them enough room for a larger compact ride such as an El Loco, Premier Sky Rocket, Maurer Sohne Sky Loop, or S&S Freespin.

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I'm confused, shouldn't the fact that they're giving the ride a fresh coat of paint solidify the fact that it's not going anywhere for the foreseeable future? They wouldn't dump money into aesthetic improvements if the ride was on the chopping block.

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I'm just playing devils advocate and assuming the rumor is true. I personally don't believe with Matt Ouimet in charge the ride will leave anytime soon (he's big on nostalgia being part of the KBF experience), but I also don't think it is such a crazy idea to remove it either.

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I'm just playing devils advocate and assuming the rumor is true. I personally don't believe with Matt Ouimet in charge the ride will leave anytime soon (he's big on nostalgia being part of the KBF experience), but I also don't think it is such a crazy idea to remove it either.

 

Gotcha. I kind of disagree with you on the fact that it's not a crazy idea to remove it though. None of us have any information about operating costs or ridership numbers but it's such an incredibly compact ride that it seems like it would be kind of nuts to remove it unless ridership is tremendously low or operating costs are tremendously high. Could they fit something like a Free Spin or Tempesto clone there? Sure, but they could easily find another spot to put one of them too that wouldn't require them removing anything. I do understand that a lot of parks like to remove costly rides when adding new ones even when it's not really in the way of the new ride to help offset the operating costs (take Space Spiral being removed for Gatekeeper at Cedar Point for example), but I feel like this park is so landlocked and compact that they wouldn't want to remove a coaster unless it's incredibly unpopular or takes up a large amount of expansion room (I'm looking at you Boomerang).

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I'm just playing devils advocate and assuming the rumor is true. I personally don't believe with Matt Ouimet in charge the ride will leave anytime soon (he's big on nostalgia being part of the KBF experience), but I also don't think it is such a crazy idea to remove it either.

 

Gotcha. I kind of disagree with you on the fact that it's not a crazy idea to remove it though. None of us have any information about operating costs or ridership numbers but it's such an incredibly compact ride that it seems like it would be kind of nuts to remove it unless ridership is tremendously low or operating costs are tremendously high. Could they fit something like a Free Spin or Tempesto clone there? Sure, but they could easily find another spot to put one of them too that wouldn't require them removing anything. I do understand that a lot of parks like to remove costly rides when adding new ones even when it's not really in the way of the new ride to help offset the operating costs (take Space Spiral being removed for Gatekeeper at Cedar Point for example), but I feel like this park is so landlocked and compact that they wouldn't want to remove a coaster unless it's incredibly unpopular or takes up a large amount of expansion room (I'm looking at you Boomerang).

 

Outside of operating costs and ridership numbers, ya gotta remember that if Knott's doesn't remove Montezuma then Dorney will never get get Laser's Revenge in 2018.........

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I'm just playing devils advocate and assuming the rumor is true. I personally don't believe with Matt Ouimet in charge the ride will leave anytime soon (he's big on nostalgia being part of the KBF experience), but I also don't think it is such a crazy idea to remove it either.

 

Gotcha. I kind of disagree with you on the fact that it's not a crazy idea to remove it though. None of us have any information about operating costs or ridership numbers but it's such an incredibly compact ride that it seems like it would be kind of nuts to remove it unless ridership is tremendously low or operating costs are tremendously high. Could they fit something like a Free Spin or Tempesto clone there? Sure, but they could easily find another spot to put one of them too that wouldn't require them removing anything. I do understand that a lot of parks like to remove costly rides when adding new ones even when it's not really in the way of the new ride to help offset the operating costs (take Space Spiral being removed for Gatekeeper at Cedar Point for example), but I feel like this park is so landlocked and compact that they wouldn't want to remove a coaster unless it's incredibly unpopular or takes up a large amount of expansion room (I'm looking at you Boomerang).

 

Yeah, it's all speculation. My thoughts are that if you could "upgrade" (entirely subjective to us as coaster nerds---since most of us think it's still a good ride) to a newer ride that still fits within the compact footprint of Monte, why waste space elsewhere?

 

Adding to the "we're all coaster nerds speculating" discussion: without proper manufacturer support, God forbid if something were to go wrong....Cedar Fair is on the hook. That could be one of the many determining factors.

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I'm confused, shouldn't the fact that they're giving the ride a fresh coat of paint solidify the fact that it's not going anywhere for the foreseeable future? They wouldn't dump money into aesthetic improvements if the ride was on the chopping block.

 

My guess is that Monte got painted because it looked so faded and sat right behind the new Sol Spin ride so they are trying to make the area look nicer. There were a couple rumors floating around that Monte or Boomerang was being removed for the next coaster but neither seems to have been conformed by anyone. We are just having fun speculating at this point and it could be a couple of years before we get a new coaster anyway. Knott's has saved rides like GhostRider, Log Ride, Mine Train and Sky Cabin and did a decent job but they have largely run out of space so at some point they will remove again.

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My guess is that Monte got painted because it looked so faded and sat right behind the new Sol Spin ride so they are trying to make the area look nicer.

 

Sure, but I still don't see them painting it if they were planning to remove it in the near future. That makes absolutely no sense, whatsoever.

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Sure, but I still don't see them painting it if they were planning to remove it in the near future. That makes absolutely no sense, whatsoever.

 

I don't know, based on the cost analysis provided in the Darien Lake forum, painting coasters is a steal:

 

I had some spare time and I know some people here talked about Ride Of Steel being being repainted. I just calculated how much it would cost to repaint Ride Of Steel. It would take about 62 gallons of paint the track and about another 60 to paint the supports. So, assuming they are using Sherwin Williams brand paint, it is $45 per gallon. So, 45 multiplied by 122 is 5,490. Thus it will cost $5,490 to repaint Ride Of Steel. I simply put this here FYI (and I had the miracle of having that much spare time).
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My guess is that Monte got painted because it looked so faded and sat right behind the new Sol Spin ride so they are trying to make the area look nicer.

 

Sure, but I still don't see them painting it if they were planning to remove it in the near future. That makes absolutely no sense, whatsoever.

 

Thunder Road's retracking establishes precedence. I hope Monte stays at Knotts until I can get out there, otherwise I'd love to see it at Knoebels.

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I don't know; retracking a coaster is pretty cheap too. According to decks.com's cost calculator, Thunder Road, which is 7,638 feet of track, would need 1,458 12 foot 2x6's. Now there are 8 layers of wood, so that's 11,664 2x6's. Lowe's has these for $13.77 each, so that's $160,613.28

 

Sources:

www.decks.com/calculators/floor/

www.lowes.com/pd/Top-Choice-Common-2-in-x-6-in-x-12-ft-Actual-1-5-in-x-5-5-in-x-12-ft-Pressure-Treated-Lumber/50017294

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Thunder Road's retracking establishes precedence.

 

Kind of, but if I remember correctly what was still 3-4 years before the removal of the ride (correct me if I'm wrong). More importantly though (if my timeline is correct) it happened well before the park, county and city worked out a deal that ended with the park receiving almost a million dollars in incentives for their ambitious $50 million expansion. Had that never happened it's possible that the water park expansion wouldn't have been as ambitious. Maybe it would have, but a lot of things happened at Carowinds between the decision to re-track Thunder Road and it's eventual removal that were unique to that park. It was also located on a prime piece of real estate and seemed to have very low ridership compared to the other rides in the park. At the same time, the Carowinds water park was almost comically under-sized and crappy. The removal of Thunder Road was a no-brainer.

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Thunder Road's retracking establishes precedence.

 

Kind of, but if I remember correctly what was still 3-4 years before the removal of the ride (correct me if I'm wrong). More importantly though (if my timeline is correct) it happened well before the park, county and city worked out a deal that ended with the park receiving almost a million dollars in incentives for their ambitious $50 million expansion. Had that never happened it's possible that the water park expansion wouldn't have been as ambitious. Maybe it would have, but a lot of things happened at Carowinds between the decision to re-track Thunder Road and it's eventual removal that were unique to that park. It was also located on a prime piece of real estate and seemed to have very low ridership compared to the other rides in the park. At the same time, the Carowinds water park was almost comically under-sized and crappy. The removal of Thunder Road was a no-brainer.

 

I think you hit the nail on the head. Thunder Road was on prime real estate, while Monte most definitely is not.

 

I'm not totally sure how I feel about the orange considering the park has a plethora of orange rides, but I'll save my judgement for when the ride is completely re-painted. So glad to see it receive some much-needed love.

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Thunder Road's retracking establishes precedence.

 

Kind of, but if I remember correctly what was still 3-4 years before the removal of the ride (correct me if I'm wrong). More importantly though (if my timeline is correct) it happened well before the park, county and city worked out a deal that ended with the park receiving almost a million dollars in incentives for their ambitious $50 million expansion. Had that never happened it's possible that the water park expansion wouldn't have been as ambitious. Maybe it would have, but a lot of things happened at Carowinds between the decision to re-track Thunder Road and it's eventual removal that were unique to that park. It was also located on a prime piece of real estate and seemed to have very low ridership compared to the other rides in the park. At the same time, the Carowinds water park was almost comically under-sized and crappy. The removal of Thunder Road was a no-brainer.

 

I think you hit the nail on the head. Thunder Road was on prime real estate, while Monte most definitely is not.

 

98% of precedence revoked. That 2% is in case it does (hopefully not) get removed/relocated.

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Thunder Road's retracking establishes precedence.

 

Kind of, but if I remember correctly what was still 3-4 years before the removal of the ride (correct me if I'm wrong). More importantly though (if my timeline is correct) it happened well before the park, county and city worked out a deal that ended with the park receiving almost a million dollars in incentives for their ambitious $50 million expansion. Had that never happened it's possible that the water park expansion wouldn't have been as ambitious. Maybe it would have, but a lot of things happened at Carowinds between the decision to re-track Thunder Road and it's eventual removal that were unique to that park. It was also located on a prime piece of real estate and seemed to have very low ridership compared to the other rides in the park. At the same time, the Carowinds water park was almost comically under-sized and crappy. The removal of Thunder Road was a no-brainer.

 

I think you hit the nail on the head. Thunder Road was on prime real estate, while Monte most definitely is not.

 

98% of precedence revoked. That 2% is in case it does (hopefully not) get removed/relocated.

 

Then I'll use Rolling Thunder (at SFGAdv) as a precedent. It ran like crap for well over a decade. Then they finally got it right with the retrack, only to remove it within one year. Granted it was nowhere as popular as Montezooma's Revenge. And I'm not buying the need for a path to Zumanjaro, they could have fit a path in without taking out Rolling Thunder.

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Weren't the issues with Rolling Thunder more structural in nature? From what I understand, the right side couldn't reopen without significant repairs to the structure, and management felt it was more cost-effective to remove the coaster rather than repair it.

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