Canada's Wonderland Discussion Thread

[cfc]

Anyways, this is the first time I ever heard this much complaining about a coaster that is over a mile long.

 

Have you heard of a little ride called "The Ultimate" in the UK?

 

I now return you to the CW thread, which is already in progress. I'm sure Leviathan will be a very enjoyable ride; hey, I'm a fan of the old Morgan hypers, too (lumbering beasts that they are).

[Hilltopper39]

I will say that the whole Leviathian project did seem a bit odd from the beginning. These days most parks tease a major new ride announcement for a little while before the announcement is made, CW just kind of announced it out of the blue one day fairly late in the season if I remember correctly. That combined with the fact that this ride is VERY really similar to Behemoth still makes me think that this project might have been originally intended for a different park that for whatever reason fell through at the last minute and ha to be built elsewhere. That might also explain the crazy brake run, maybe the original design did have a few more hills but the design had to be modified at the last minute to fit the space at CW. Just a theory, refute it all you want (and I'm sure you will), but this installation was always kind of odd to me.

 

Still looks like a great ride that the GP will love.

[cfc]

^When it comes right down to it, the main idea is to get people through the turnstiles, and I imagine this ride will be a big draw for an already popular park.

[Skycoastin Steve]

^^There was prep work going on around Dragon Fire for most of (if not all) the 2011 season. This wasn't a last second decision to put the ride in.

[larrygator]

Canada's Wonderland is the most visited regional park. They needed a high capacity coaster from a company with a record of little dowtime. That's what they got.

[BeemerBoy]

I don't get b&M lately. They put mid course brakes on their hypers and then put garbage after them. The early Hypers like Nitro and Apollos Chariot had great second halfs. Behemoth and Intimidator have terrible after brake sections and Leviathons is the biggest joke of all. Its obivous that they originally had designed a different ending at some point. The entrance to the final brakes was once an MCBR in the design process.

 

On a separate note, riding one of their rides like Kumba and then riding one of their new wingriders is depressing. Kumba is so intense and fast paced. I love it. The wingriders are lame in my opinion. Even riding on of the newer floorlesses is tame compared to Kumba. They made much more intense loopers in the 90's. Chang/Green Lantern is one of the last ones before they started stretching out transitions between elements and making them even more oversized. I am actually glad my home park got a used older B&M instead of the new one.

Bolliger & Mabillard Inc.

Chemin des Dailles 31

CH-1870 MONTHEY

SWITZERLAND

 

You should write them and tell them what keeps you up at night. I hear enthusiast letters are what's gonna power the future generation of B&M brake runs.

[Hilltopper39]

I know it wasn't a last second decision to build the ride, I just found the timing of announcement process to be odd. I don't remember there being any teasers online, or any signs in the park or really any significant rumors about it or anything prior to the announcement. When was the last time you remember there being a major coaster installed at a park that didn't have any significant rumors or any type of lead up the to announcement?

 

Leviathan should be a huge success, it just felt like there might have been a little more to the story as to why they decided to build the first B&M Giga coaster at Canada's Wonderland.

[rollin_n_coastin]

Wow, a very entertaining read over the past few pages!

 

I guess enthusiasts, despite the name, are never 100% enthused. That’s totally fine if a speed coaster isn’t your thing. I just find it funny when people try to create some sort of frankencoaster by adding out of place elements that have already been designed into Behemoth.

 

The coaster, as of this past Friday, opened about 18 months to the day they started planning and designing it specifically for Wonderland. There’s got to be a good reason for the brake run that I’m sure an engineer from B&M would be happy to answer that one day.

 

I spoke to a few people who were at the corporate bank days this past weekend and no matter the age, the huge smiles and excitement while they talked about Leviathan are a pretty good indicator of how the majority of park guests will react. It is a phenomenal addition to the park, just as i305 and Millennium Force were at other Cedar Fair parks. This ride will take your breath away just looking at it while walking up to the front gate, just as Behemoth does as you drive by it for what seems like forever getting to the parking lot.

[asimowalk]

I know it wasn't a last second decision to build the ride, I just found the timing of announcement process to be odd. I don't remember there being any teasers online, or any signs in the park or really any significant rumors about it or anything prior to the announcement. When was the last time you remember there being a major coaster installed at a park that didn't have any significant rumors or any type of lead up the to announcement?

 

Leviathan should be a huge success, it just felt like there might have been a little more to the story as to why they decided to build the first B&M Giga coaster at Canada's Wonderland.

From day one, there were talks about something big. IIRC, ground was already broken from opening day last year. There were a couple teasers in park that I'm sure were posted here such as the blatantly visible box with "GC seats" spray painted on it. Of course, there was the leaked renderings the night before the announcement, a trend seen across Cedar Fair parks last year. I do sort of agree in the sense that Wonderland doesn't tease as much or in ways as other parks do. Hell, they used a quote from Dick Kinzel as part of their teasing.

 

As for this whole brake run thing, I don't know why people are coming up with alternate endings. The last time I saw Leviathan was when the lift hill was halfway up and the brake run was completed. I cannot see any more space for track, and I would personally find it terrible having more track hover above Dragon Fire.

[Hilltopper39]

The coaster, as of this past Friday, opened about 18 months to the day they started planning and designing it specifically for Wonderland. There’s got to be a good reason for the brake run that I’m sure an engineer from B&M would be happy to answer that one day.

 

This may very well be 100% true, but I would love to have been a fly on a wall at Cedar Fairs headquarters to hear what was being discussed and planned 19 months ago....

[b&mforever]

There was definitely something that changed over the course of development. The beginning of the brake run is taller than dragon fire which is 78 feet tall. That means this brake run starts even higher than that (closer to 100 feet). Unless there was some weird circumstance where they changed plans they never would have designed the brakerun to start at that height.

 

 

This is higher than most B&M MCBR's.

[Fooz]

I like that the name is "B&Mforever", yet the message is "B&M until ten years ago".

[b&mforever]

I like that the name is "B&Mforever", yet the message is "B&M until ten years ago".

 

Other than B&M's reliability and capacity at this moment Intamin makes more exciting rides at the current time. The B&M loopers they make today are a joke compared to what they used to make. Its the truth. They used to be my favorite company. They make forceless boring rides now for the most part.

[Skycoastin Steve]

[b&mforever]

While I haven't made anything recently, I used to make coasters in nolimit's using mathematical formulas. I actually was very highly rated on coastercrazy.com. I even won medals for multiple coasters which means I was the top rated track of the week. Anyways I never claimed that they should built it exactly as I put it. It was a concept drawing of a basic idea.

[PhantomNick]

^^ THANK YOU!!! Good lord, I don't know what's so hard for him to understand - it WAS designed that way.....deal with it!!

 

If it bothers you that much, b&mforever, then don't ride it. I'm sure there will be plenty of others (myself included) that will gladly take your place in line for Leviathan.

[Skycoastin Steve]

While I haven't made anything recently, I used to make coasters in nolimit's using mathematical formulas. I actually was very highly rated on coastercrazy.com. I even won medals for multiple coasters which means I was the top rated track of the week. Anyways I never claimed that they should built it exactly as I put it. It was a concept drawing of a basic idea.

Why haven't Walter and Claude contacted you yet? It's obvious you're a Level 7 master builder!

[jynx242]

Ugh - this whole break run thingy conversation is making my eyes bleed!!! It is an amazing looking coaster and I look forward to riding it!!

 

I'm glad it's in "good Canada ."

 

David

[Invertalon]

It also may be possibly the brake run is so high due to the heat generated by the wheels. I know people may say MF is just as long without the brake run, but the trains are also not nearly as heavy I would assume (load per wheel). Does anybody know the weight per car section of an Intamin train versus a B&M one?

 

By ending the ride up high, it gives time for the wheels to cool down a bit while not at a stopped position (avoiding flat spots if the compound is soft), so by having a brake run that constantly moves the train for 30-45 seconds or so, it allows time for the wheel to cool without developing these flat spots. Keep in mind, these "flat spots" can be so small you would never be able to see them. But once these wheels have them, there is now a stress riser that will fail the wheel prematurely. Causing a rough ride and increased maintenance costs.

 

I am not aware of the melting point of these compounds (they could extremely high), and this theory may be completely B.S... But I know rides in the past have had wheel issues with heat, so that is my guess on why the brake run is the way it is. If it would end at a normal height and move to the next block and sit and wait due to the overall shorter time of that block section, they may cause issues to occur. This ride has quite a high average speed along the course, I would assume very similar to MF. But so many other factors come into play then just length and average speed. Load, forces along course, rail material/coatings, etc...

 

Either way and whatever the reason, it don't bother me one bit (brakerun).

[SharkTums]

Just because I've now pretty much given up on this thread, I will throw out my reason for the brake run being so high up...

 

IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE ON TOP OF THE KOD BUILDING AT KNOTTS!!!!!

 

[Synshine]

^If only the geniuses who designed this ride and the business people who paid for this ride had the designing capabilities of a TPR member with Photoshop.

 

 

Soooo quotable.

[simaticable]

Just because I've now pretty much given up on this thread, I will throw out my reason for the brake run being so high up...

 

IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE ON TOP OF THE KOD BUILDING AT KNOTTS!!!!!

 

THIS!!!

[coasterfreak101]

Well Elissa pretty much just won the Internet with that one as far as I'm concerned.

 

There was definitely something that changed over the course of development. The beginning of the brake run is taller than dragon fire which is 78 feet tall. That means this brake run starts even higher than that (closer to 100 feet). Unless there was some weird circumstance where they changed plans they never would have designed the brakerun to start at that height.

 

[super important picture of tall brake run which determines the future of roller coasters]

 

This is higher than most B&M MCBR's.

 

You're kidding, right? You just posted a picture in which the super-tall brake run CLEARLY has something it needs to be built over. And it's taller than most B&M mid-courses because, oh, I don't know, this ride is taller than all of those rides, double or triple a lot of them? And it is the ride's mid-course. Since you're a Paint Engineer, you'd think you would understand that the flat portion of Leviathan's brake run serves as an MCBR to allow another train to crest the lift safely. I guess the degree you have doesn't make that clear.

 

It also doesn't make clear that with a price tag of $28 million, this ride cost more to build for Canada's Wonderland and Cedar Fair than any other "plain" installation I can think of (excluding rides like Verbolten and the Disney/Universal crop, for theming prices), and that every extra bit tacked on to that number is more money that Cedar Fair can no longer provide to another park in the chain for improvements and new attractions.

 

Sit back and realize that another giga just got built and there will probably be more where that came from. Let the brake runs be tall, it really isn't that big of a deal. Especially considering the ride's getting great reviews.

[TPDave]

There was definitely something that changed over the course of development. The beginning of the brake run is taller than dragon fire which is 78 feet tall. That means this brake run starts even higher than that (closer to 100 feet). Unless there was some weird circumstance where they changed plans they never would have designed the brakerun to start at that height.

 

[super important picture of tall brake run which determines the future of roller coasters]

 

This is higher than most B&M MCBR's.

 

You're kidding, right? You just posted a picture in which the super-tall brake run CLEARLY has something it needs to be built over. And it's taller than most B&M mid-courses because, oh, I don't know, this ride is taller than all of those rides, double or triple a lot of them? And it is the ride's mid-course. Since you're a Paint Engineer, you'd think you would understand that the flat portion of Leviathan's brake run serves as an MCBR to allow another train to crest the lift safely. I guess the degree you have doesn't make that clear.

 

The comment might have been ill judged, but chill out a bit with the flaming.

[Hilltopper39]

^

 

Also, a paint engineering degree is a lot harder to get than most people would think.