Valleyfair (VF) Discussion Thread

[Coasterguy21]

All these posts literally make me LOL!

 

"Won't be renewing my season pass"...Disappointed again"..."Guess I'll just skip this park". Is this a threat or promise? Less lines for those of us that visit then. I'm sure people at corporate right now are going "Crap, we made them mad. Now those few posters on TPR won't be coming next year. That's going to kill our attendance and revenue". They know what they are doing and they have been taking the park in a good direction. It doesn't have to be a frickin' thrill capital. And, news flash, it never will be! Does that make it a bad park? No...it's a really good park still.

 

Seriously guys, did you honestly expect a coaster this year? You're complaining about not getting a coaster since Renegade in 2007 (unless you want to count Cosmic Coaster). There was only a 4 year difference between Steel Venom and Renegade. I get that you are going on 9 years now, but guess what? Valleyfair is in the lower attendance bracket in the chain...1.5 million guests or fewer. There have been MANY MANY parks that get higher attendance numbers than Valleyfair that have waited way longer for coasters.

 

Lets take a look:

-Silver Dollar City pulls in more than 2 million people annually: Not counting the family Grand Exposition Coaster, they waited 12 years between Wildfire & Outlaw Run (2001-2013).

-Holiday World brings in just a little over what Valleyfair brings in and they waited 10 years (2005-2015)

 

Really...what more do you expect? It is what it is and I think garyman hit it on the head that lots of money still has been going into the park.

Edited September 16, 2015 by Coasterguy21

[grsupercity]

Then why not for 2017? None of the larger parks are going to get or need a new coaster. Knotts is going in a different direction, something more family style. Worlds of Fun has been rumored to be the next to receive a a Triotech dark ride. CGA just got GoldStriker. That leaves us, Dorney, and MIA. MIA doesn't attract enough customers and is not placed in enough of a metro location where people from Detroit would come. That leaves us and Dorney, with Dorney going for a GCI wooden coaster. I could see CF go for coasters at both parks, given the relative cheap announcements this year.

 

I bet MIA and VF are a lot closer in attendance then you would think. MIA has been having rapid surges in attendance and are rumored to have hit 1 million this year. All while being a smaller park with less expenses. I do think out of most parks that VF is due for a coaster. But being they have easily the weakest water park in the chain, they are also due for a huge waterpark upgrade once the permits are cleared. Dont think im bashing VF in any way. Its a nice little park. They just could use some new slides. and coasters

[ytterbiumanalyst]

Lets take a look:

-Silver Dollar City pulls in more than 2 million people annually: Not counting the family Grand Exposition Coaster, they waited 12 years between Wildfire & Outlaw Run (2001-2013).

-Holiday World brings in just a little over what Valleyfair brings in and they waited 10 years (2005-2015)

 

Don't forget Powder Keg in 2004. That wasn't just a renovation but a totally new coaster. And Voyage was built in 2006. So 9 years for each park.

[Svelure]

The announcement was Flyers and a bike show, wow.........no really that is beyond awesome.

 

I will not be renewing the families season passes for next year, last years lame slides (not everyone likes drops slides) and now a Flyer and bike show, seriously VF is such an underwhelming park it is crazy.

 

I can't believe that VF is hyping up a ride that harkened back to the first days of the park, who cares. Those were really fun 40 years ago, it would be nice if the park would get something really great for once. And no I don't want to hear about last years drop slides or some lame skate coaster. The last coaster at the park was way too long ago.

 

That's my thought, everyone on this thread is excited about this ride, and I'm not sure why. So, I agree with you, except the part about the drop slides, I love drop slides.

[JonnyRCT3]

All these posts literally make me LOL!

 

Lets take a look:

-Silver Dollar City pulls in more than 2 million people annually: Not counting the family Grand Exposition Coaster, they waited 12 years between Wildfire & Outlaw Run (2001-2013).

-Holiday World brings in just a little over what Valleyfair brings in and they waited 10 years (2005-2015)

 

Really...what more do you expect? It is what it is and I think garyman hit it on the head that lots of money still has been going into the park.

 

A park can go without a specific type of ride an enthusiasts thinks it "needs". Parks simply balance out the types of rides that draw guest to THEIR park. VF has never been a "coaster destination" in any sense, and has always focused on other essentials that has kept the park afloat all this time. Like family and water attractions. There is the occasional coaster, which helps balance out the family with the thrill rides, creating an all-in-one family destination.

 

Why people expect this park to get a coaster every few years is beyond me. Maybe Cedar Point or Magic Mountain, where the money is abundant and coasters have always reigned supreme. Route 76 & the Soak City expansions were rather large, and are both easily a combined $10 million. (The park does spend a lot of money on every type of ride, not just coasters. So it's no surprise that next year will be downsized, investment wise) Why spend the same amount on a single coaster, when you can invest in multiple attractions over 2 years (twice the market exposure) with a much higher marketability & attractiveness to the most essential demographic to the park? When you have rides for families, and waterpark attractions (which are attractive to any age) you can easily draw families that will buy 4-6 tickets and spend money inside the park. As opposed to the two teenagers/adults who buy two tickets to ride the few coasters and leave.

 

This is a business at the end of the day, and apparently VF finds the family market a viable field of investment. Enough so that they've easily invested the cost of 3-4 Renegades (coasters) since 2007 into family based attractions. That speaks volumes in itself as to what keeps bringing in the money.

[jynx242]

Just caught up on this thread and felt the need to add my piece

 

When I visited ValleyFair a few years ago, I found the coaster collection to be lackluster, but REALLY liked the park. I feel that CF and the park are basically going the opposite direction from what they do at Cedar Point. They are making it a really, really nice small park with more of a retro vibe. To that end, they are doing a great job.

 

Flyers can be really great rides. I remember riding the flyers at Carowinds and being encouraged to snap them. If snapping is allowed by VallyFair - these will be a treat.

 

I can, however, understand the frustration felt by enthusiasts and locals about the lack of any new StandOut rides or coasters. To me, the additions of small flats and any additions to a waterpark are always underwhelming. I know that they help out with rounding out a park and that they are necessary - but "family" additions really don't do anything for a large part of the park's demographic. What everyone needs to understand, is that the "family" rides bring in the families which spend a substantially larger amount of money at a park than your average adrenaline junky. These improvements HAVE to be made so that larger thrill rides can be built.

 

Here's hoping to a very successful 2016 for VF and here's hoping for a new thrill ride for 2017.

 

David

[Mossed]

In theory yes, but a ton of those complaints on the Facebook page are from families. Back in 04, it wasn't flyers that got my family out to Cedar Point (many of whom still make frequent trips), it was Top Thrill Dragster. A lot of families want coasters too, and that's what enthusiasts fail to realize.

[Coaster Curt]

Well Coasterguy can laugh about whatever he wants but the fact remains that I won't be buying 5 season passes to VF and won't be dropping $1500.00 there over the course of the season. Now $1500.00 isn't a huge number but honestly I feel as though that expendable income can be used in a variety of other things. Take that amount times a few families and it becomes a decent number that isn't being spent at VF, the park is fine but nothing to entice people to actually make a trip from somewhere else.

[valleyfairfanatic]

I'm baffled with how much hate the flyers are getting when really the posters have never even been on a ride of the sort. I thought they were quite thrilling at Cedar Point

[grsupercity]

There are enthusiasts who love flyers. Like travel the country to ride flyers. There a very solid addition that no one should be mad about.

[madsencarson]

Youtube "snapping flying eagles". They look like a crap ton of fun if you know how to "snap" them! Those vids make me excited for this ride! Someone please tell me the technique for snapping? How do you do it?

[Mossed]

I'm baffled with how much hate the flyers are getting when really the posters have never even been on a ride of the sort. I thought they were quite thrilling at Cedar Point

 

 

Give me the version at Knoebels and I'd agree with you. Best flat ride this side of Demon Drop

[MidwestThemeParks]

 

Lets take a look:

-Silver Dollar City pulls in more than 2 million people annually: Not counting the family Grand Exposition Coaster, they waited 12 years between Wildfire & Outlaw Run (2001-2013).

-Holiday World brings in just a little over what Valleyfair brings in and they waited 10 years (2005-2015)

 

 

Silver Dollar has gotten many more thrill rides in recent years than Valleyfair.

 

SDC

2001- Wildfire

2005- Powder Keg

2006- Grand Exposition- mostly family but some thrill rides like Electro-Spin

2007- Giant Barn Swing

2010- Tom &Huck's RiverBlast - not really a thrill, but anyone can ride and have fun.

2013- Outlaw Run

2015- Fireman's Landing- Again, more family but Firefall provides some thrill

 

VF

2000- Power Tower

2003- Steel Venom

2005- Riptide

2006- Screamin' Swing

2007- Renegade

2014- Northern Lights

 

So, VF really hasn't had a THRILL ride since 2007, nine years ago.

[michaellynn4]

^^ Don't mean to burst your bubble, but the vast majority of new models are built in a manner that prevent snapping. Even if they are capable, parks generally frown upon the art of snapping (except Knoebels), stopping and ejecting riders if they see them do so.

 

Even without snapping, flyers are usually one of my favorite flat rides. The one at Kings Dominion gave me one of the most terrifying rides of my life: first time riding flyers, at night, in the wind and rain, area covered in think fog from fog machines (it was Haunt time). My girlfriend at the time (who had plenty of experience with flyers growing up going to Knoebels) was whipping around in front of me like she had no care in the world. I thought she was nuts.

[Mdcastle]

I've ridden flyers before. It's not that they're a bad ride. It's that there's so many things Valleyfair needs more than a decent flat.

[cake-is-life]

^^ Don't mean to burst your bubble, but the vast majority of new models are built in a manner that prevent snapping. Even if they are capable, parks generally frown upon the art of snapping (except Knoebels), stopping and ejecting riders if they see them do so.

 

As a ride op, depending on the day and if a supervisor was around, I'd probably let people snap to their hearts content. There's worse things to worry about.

[John Peck]

Flyers are actually something that the park will benefit from. What is Valleyfairs closest competitor? Nick U. Some family rides, and some thrill rides, but no flying scooter. What is another close park? Mt Olympus... a bunch of wood coasters, but no GCI twister.

 

Valleyfair are building rides that no other park within 3 hours have. They are building a huge arsenal of mild family rides and they have a handful of true thrill rides on top of that, plus a high potential waterpark once they can expand it.

[PhantomPoster32]

Just remember - if the flyers aren't going to do it for you next summer, you can travel down 35 and ride The Monster at Adventureland

[JonnyRCT3]

I've ridden flyers before. It's not that they're a bad ride. It's that there's so many things Valleyfair needs more than a decent flat.

Apparently the dozen or so people behind such investments with years inside the industry and heavy park management experience seem to differ. It's not like the people behind the scenes who've run the park for years don't know what the park needs. Every park has things it needs to approve upon, and will be dealt with eventually.

 

This isn't RCT3, everything can only be done one step at a time.

[Coaster Curt]

It's great that the park is adding a couple things and obviously have people who know what they are doing.

 

All I am saying is that a bike show and Flyers isn't something that will get me back to the park next year. In my opinion it is a mild park and the thrill rides that are there once ridden a couple hundred times have lost all thrill.

[redfoot12]

I still hope to make it to this park next year, flyers or not. I'm thinking of an expansive trip--VF, Nick, Wisconsin Dells, Adventureland, SFStL, and WoF--all of which will be new to me.

Couple of questions...

Is Arnold's worth going out of the way for?

Is Excalibur still being seen as going away sometime soon?

[VF15]

^

I'm hearing that Excalibur will definitely be back in 2016, but if the permit for the parking lot gets approved, then next year will probably be its final season.

 

Can't really comment on Arnolds Park since I haven't been there yet (hopefully next year), although their wooden coaster (Legend) looks like fun.

[Mdcastle]

I've ridden flyers before. It's not that they're a bad ride. It's that there's so many things Valleyfair needs more than a decent flat.

Apparently the dozen or so people behind such investments with years inside the industry and heavy park management experience seem to differ. It's not like the people behind the scenes who've run the park for years don't know what the park needs. Every park has things it needs to approve upon, and will be dealt with eventually.

 

This isn't RCT3, everything can only be done one step at a time.

 

Getting a little passive aggressive, aren't we? Has a corporation never made a mistake? Or maybe there really have been long lines of people saying that they'll never come back unless the park gets a Larson Flyers.

 

New Coke was made by people with years inside the industry. So was the Arch Deluxe. If they're saving money to build a parking lot maybe anouncing a "meh" flat was the best they could do. For what it costs they certainly can't fix the things that the public perceives are actual problems with the park, but your insulting tone wasn't necessary.

[DILinator]

In theory yes, but a ton of those complaints on the Facebook page are from families. Back in 04, it wasn't flyers that got my family out to Cedar Point (many of whom still make frequent trips), it was Top Thrill Dragster. A lot of families want coasters too, and that's what enthusiasts fail to realize.

 

 

I've said this numerous times, and as a father of four (three of which are avid coaster riders - all under 12), I am certainly qualified to speak on behalf of the "family" contingent. Automatically equating additions like this to being "family friendly", and coaster additions to "not family friendly", is a misnomer. I think maybe "young child friendly" might be a more apt designation. Most of the kids 6-13 I've known and observed over the years, love a good coaster as much as the next enthusiast (well, maybe not that much! )

 

That being said, my kids do really like Flyers (as do I), and I think this is a solid addition for Valleyfair!

 

Has a corporation never made a mistake? Or maybe there really have been long lines of people saying that they'll never come back unless the park gets a Larson Flyers.

 

New Coke was made by people with years inside the industry. So was the Arch Deluxe.

 

This is also something I feel the need to remind people of periodically... One strange tendency I've noticed across most enthusiast sites, is this blind acceptance that corporations like Cedar Fair and Six Flags automatically know better than any of us what is and isn't a good addition to their parks. Obviously, I would agree that most of the time, that is the case. But there are plenty of people out here, with the understanding of the industry, business acumen, as well as innovative park concepts, that would be just as good doing the job of people working for those companies, if not better.

 

If there's one thing I've learned working in the Mental Health field for over 17 years, it's that just because somebody has a higher degree, and a more prestigious position, doesn't mean they are smarter than you, or even better at their job than you would be.

 

Cedar Fair and Six Flags have both made mistakes over the years, some which they have owned up to, others which they have not. It's the nature of business. But to automatically assume everybody in high-up positions there, is smarter about what they're doing than anybody here, is a false assumption, in my opinion, and not something I have seen borne out in my professional career...

 

And again, let me be clear: I do NOT think these Flyers are a mistake on VF or CF's part!

[coasterbill]

Someone please tell me the technique for snapping? How do you do it?

 

For Larson flyers, assuming you're right handed grab the sail with your left hand and turn it at a 23 degree angle until the ride really gets going. Then once it does (still using your left hand) jerk the sail all the way to the right and dive down. Simultaneously with your right hand pull out your iphone and open up "maps". Then type in "Knoebels Amusement Resort". Let it get you directions.

 

While it's calculating the directions do whatever with the sail because seriously who cares... once the ride stops use a key to push in the hole in the ridiculously stupid safety seatbelt so you can get out of the ride, go to the car, don't get a hand stamp on the way out and drive to Knoebels.