Six Flags [FUN] Corporate Discussion Thread

[coasternut]

Not sure if this applies to this situation. I just wonder if the government - FTC Federal Trade Commission will let this happen. They blocked many mergers as non competitive.

For me this could be a good thing. I have both 6 Flags & Cedar Fair high end passes. We'll see what happens. I may save money.!

[realKyle]

19 minutes ago, coasternut said:

Not sure if this applies to this situation. I just wonder if the government - FTC Federal Trade Commission will let this happen. They blocked many mergers as non competitive.

For me this could be a good thing. I have both 6 Flags & Cedar Fair high end passes. We'll see what happens. I may save money.!

I thought about that too but I think they'll still let it happen being that the company would still have competitors in SeaWorld and Herschend (albeit they own a lot less parks).

[teacherkim]

Not only SeaWorld and Herschend but Disney, Universal, Palace, and the many many individually owned parks, whether it be a family owned park or one owned by a corporation like Hershey. The FTC is going to see that Disney still has more attendance and revenue than all the CF and SF parks together so I don't think they will consider it a monopoly. I mean if Ticketmaster is allowed to continue to exist then this isn't even close to a monopoly and look at how many airline mergers the government has allowed.

[coasternut]

^ I hear what you're saying, but this lady - Lina Khan who is chairman of the FTC is "drunk with power." I hope she stays out of it.

[CedarFlags]

On 11/4/2023 at 9:34 AM, coasternut said:

Not sure if this applies to this situation. I just wonder if the government - FTC Federal Trade Commission will let this happen. They blocked many mergers as non competitive.

For me this could be a good thing. I have both 6 Flags & Cedar Fair high end passes. We'll see what happens. I may save money.!

It's cute that you still have any faith in the FTC to enforce antitrust laws.

[larrygator]

On 11/5/2023 at 12:38 PM, coasternut said:

^ I hear what you're saying, but this lady - Lina Khan who is chairman of the FTC is "drunk with power." I hope she stays out of it.

She won't stay out of it even though it clearly should not be viewed as an issue

[CaptainUnknown]

I'll laugh if any attractions at Canada's Wonderland get the DC branding. The park was used as a filming location for Amazon's The Boys--which largely satirizes DC.

[abovethesink]

21 hours ago, larrygator said:

She won't stay out of it even though it clearly should not be viewed as an issue

There is no ground for the FTC to block the merger. There has to be a legal argument that the chain would be anti-competitive and there isn't one like there is with the big tech companies that the FTC is going after. Whether those arguments against the tech companies are strong enough to be legally valid is beyond the purview of a forum like this, but they are easy to understand and follow with a couple minutes research.

What argument could they put forth about this being anti-competitive? There are the three well documented markets with arguable competitive crossover, but those markets are still saturated with other competitors. No argument there to block the whole merge. Maybe to divest one of the properties, but with all the other nearby competition that would be a tough argument to make. I think the "nightmare" scenario for the new chain is that they have to pick one each of SFMM/Knotts, SFA/KD, and SFGA/Dorney and sell off the other and I would call even that unlikely. 

There is nothing to work with in terms of blocking the whole merger. 

[coasternut]

^ I hope you're right. We'll see..

[michaellynn4]

Six Flags / Cedar Fair is small potatoes compared to what's currently on FTC's plate. The worst case scenario of them possibly selling off 1-2 parks is honestly something they're probably going to do anyway simply to optimize operational resources.

[abovethesink]

My view on this has evolved to basically one smaller concern that impacts manufactures and by extension mostly us coaster nerds. Think about the last decade or so, (not going to worry about an exact window) and compare what coasters Six Flags and Cedar Fair have purchased for their parks. Cedar Fair has, for the most part, gone with the tried and true big manufacturers and their established, proven models. Six Flags has been much more willing, for the most part, to play around with the cheaper and more experimental upstarts. Six Flags may have been moving away from this anyway prior to the merger, but whether they have or not we have lost the reality of two different companies having the potential of having two different minds as to what type of attractions that they want to build.

The big example is RMC. They probably never get off the ground without the penny pinching Six Flags we have known. The chain also tossed up 4D Free Spins, brought back the compressed air launch, worked with Premier Rides, the new Vekoma boomerang model, etc. How much we like these things individually aside, they were decisions Cedar Fair has been much less likely to make. By extension they are decisions that the new combined company would be unlikely to make had they not already happened. Of course, you can easily flip this too. Six Flags wouldn't have done all these Gigas or worked with the more expensive Mack Rides as obvious examples.

The loss isn't specifically the chances that Six Flags has taken, but that we will have lost an entire independent way of thinking about these decisions. Where there were two corporate minds, there is now one. The coasters going into all our regional parks going forward are going to be much more homogenous in nature. Maybe better overall, maybe worse overall, maybe there will be no overall quality change. Either way, there is likely to be less variety. That is a bummer to me.  

[Zand]

53 minutes ago, abovethesink said:

My view on this has evolved to basically one smaller concern that impacts manufactures and by extension mostly us coaster nerds. Think about the last decade or so, (not going to worry about an exact window) and compare what coasters Six Flags and Cedar Fair have purchased for their parks. Cedar Fair has, for the most part, gone with the tried and true big manufacturers and their established, proven models. Six Flags has been much more willing, for the most part, to play around with the cheaper and more experimental upstarts. Six Flags may have been moving away from this anyway prior to the merger, but whether they have or not we have lost the reality of two different companies having the potential of having two different minds as to what type of attractions that they want to build.

The big example is RMC. They probably never get off the ground without the penny pinching Six Flags we have known. The chain also tossed up 4D Free Spins, brought back the compressed air launch, worked with Premier Rides, the new Vekoma boomerang model, etc. How much we like these things individually aside, they were decisions Cedar Fair has been much less likely to make. By extension they are decisions that the new combined company would be unlikely to make had they not already happened. Of course, you can easily flip this too. Six Flags wouldn't have done all these Gigas or worked with the more expensive Mack Rides as obvious examples.

The loss isn't specifically the chances that Six Flags has taken, but that we will have lost an entire independent way of thinking about these decisions. Where there were two corporate minds, there is now one. The coasters going into all our regional parks going forward are going to be much more homogenous in nature. Maybe better overall, maybe worse overall, maybe there will be no overall quality change. Either way, there is likely to be less variety. That is a bummer to me.  

I'm sure Valleyfair and Michigan's Adventure (and Dorney before this year) wish they could've had a couple penny pinched Six Flags coasters sent their way in the past 15. I understand that what Cedar Fair gives to its good parks far outweighs what Six Flags has been giving to its big parks the past 10 years. But the have-nots on their end seem to be way bigger "nots" than the Six Flags have-nots (other than SFA of course). Six Flags parks may have been 4-D'd to death but at least it's something.

As great as it would be to get some gigas into places like Magic Mountain and Great Adventure, I think the bigger thing that may come of out of this is maybe the new combined chain will remember the smaller parks exist, regardless of who they choose to work with. But we'll see, could just be status quo also.

[ricklap77]

I think some manufaturers will pay the price for this merger.  

[prozach626]

I just hope Cedar Fair and Six Flags have been paying attention to this thread. Otherwise, they probably never even considered how the FTC will view this merger.

  

On 11/9/2023 at 11:31 AM, Zand said:

but at least it's something.

Six Flags Saint Louis clientele have been neglected repeatedly over that mindset.

[Zand]

2 hours ago, prozach626 said:

SIx Flags Saint Louis clientele have been neglected repeatedly over that mindset.

But how many Cedar Fair parks have gotten something as extensive as a multi-year Carousel project?

[prozach626]

KI said, "Hold my beer," and got theirs finished in an off season. At SFStl: "BUt iTs AlL bEiNg DuNn iN HoUSe N wIlL bE GrAtE!!!"

Two years after restoration: Trashed.

[Zand]

Hey Cedar Fair...you know what Great Adventure needs that you have a few of and would fit in the park perfectly?

One of those sports bar style Chickie's and Pete's.

Make it happen.

[AmyUD06]

5 hours ago, Zand said:

Hey Cedar Fair...you know what Great Adventure needs that you have a few of and would fit in the park perfectly?

One of those sports bar style Chickie's and Pete's.

Make it happen.

A perfect reuse of the mostly-abandoned Best of the West.

Though I would argue that SFGAdv needs less alcohol locations, not more.

[Doppel Looping]

Can we change this thread to:

fun with flags?

[djoles]

On 11/10/2023 at 5:12 PM, Zand said:

But how many Cedar Fair parks have gotten something as extensive as a multi-year Carousel project?

Cedar Fair parks have gotten a couple years of the very immersive experience of Grand Carnivale which is FUN for all!

[tndank]

Starting today, SFoG, Great Adventure, and probably more, have added a $0.99 surcharge to all transactions in the park "due to increase labor and supply costs."  Signs include the poor grammar. 

 

 

[Lotologist492]

On 11/19/2023 at 12:07 AM, tndank said:

Starting today, SFoG, Great Adventure, and probably more, have added a $0.99 surcharge to all transactions in the park "due to increase labor and supply costs."  Signs include the poor grammar. 

 

 

Fortunately for anyone with a dining pass, there is no surcharge, at least no one has mentioned it to me when I pick up my food.  Having said that, this is one of the worst things the park can do.  If they need to raise prices, then raise prices.  Do not just tack on a junk fee.  This is the kind of nonsense we can only hope the Cedar Fair half eliminates soon.

[bert425]

On 11/18/2023 at 11:07 PM, tndank said:

Starting today, SFoG, Great Adventure, and probably more, have added a $0.99 surcharge to all transactions in the park "due to increase labor and supply costs."  Signs include the poor grammar. 

 

 

yup. .it's chain wide.

SFFT just posted pics of the new Holiday meal limited time option (which is a STAGGERING $26). . and insultingly also note the .99 surcharge.

insulting, and crazy and will really affect food sales (at least for those who don't splurge for dining plan).   

now, granted, the food at SFFT has been rather good lately. . but still?  these prices are outrageous.

from Jeffrey's/Parks twitter post, and my feedback to them:

[Doppel Looping]

My dining plan is to eat somewhere else. 

[Zand]

On 11/22/2023 at 2:08 PM, bert425 said:

yup. .it's chain wide.

SFFT just posted pics of the new Holiday meal limited time option (which is a STAGGERING $26). . and insultingly also note the .99 surcharge.

insulting, and crazy and will really affect food sales (at least for those who don't splurge for dining plan).   

now, granted, the food at SFFT has been rather good lately. . but still?  these prices are outrageous.

from Jeffrey's/Parks twitter post, and my feedback to them:

It's crazy. The last couple times I've been to JB's at SFNE, my wife and I ordered two meals and two drinks and they rang up to a total in the neighborhood of $70 before they scanned for the meal plans. Just insane. I also noticed last week at Great Adventure that general parking is up to $45.

I'll milk these $16 per month platinum passes with dining plans as long as I can because I know change is on the horizon with the merger.