Kings Dominion (KD) Discussion Thread

[boldikus]

What is this Lightning Racer is rough crap? We rode it in late October and while it felt more out of control than usual we (the missus and I, and she is a complainer) both thought it was smooth as ever and one of our favorite rides we've had on it.

[Vonni]

^ I'm jealous

 

I'm jealous you have Outlaw Run.

 

 

Yes I am very happy about that. It's my number one coaster!

[Jason Maier]

You know . . . I may very well switch my Season Pass for 2019 to King's Dominion/Cedar Fair.

 

The last time I actually went to KD was for a summer camp day trip in '94 (I was 13 at the time).

 

It's only a 2 hour drive to KD for me (depending on Beltway traffic and such)

[Rayj]

With the addition of Twisted Timbers, is KD the 3rd best Cedar Fair park?

[Password121]

With the addition of Twisted Timbers, is KD the 3rd best Cedar Fair park?

I feel like it just completely depends on what people are looking for, so to throw out "Now it's the third best" seems pretty arbitrary. If people are more into atmosphere, short lines, and family rides, Kings Dominion is better than Cedar Point. It's all personal opinion.

[ytterbiumanalyst]

With the addition of Twisted Timbers, is KD the 3rd best Cedar Fair park?

It's definitely in the top 3 Cedar Fair parks I've never visited.

 

Yes, there are exactly 3 Cedar Fair parks I've never visited.

[Rayj]

With the addition of Twisted Timbers, is KD the 3rd best Cedar Fair park?

I feel like it just completely depends on what people are looking for, so to throw out "Now it's the third best" seems pretty arbitrary. If people are more into atmosphere, short lines, and family rides, Kings Dominion is better than Cedar Point. It's all personal opinion.

I guess my question was too broad, how about “3rd best cedar fair park” in terms of it’s coaster collection or top 3.

[KICoasterkev]

Every time I see updates on this I think "Holy F*ck this is in the same park as Intimidator".

 

This park's coaster lineup is going to be nuts next season. Despite the fact that it's market share doesn't warrant it at all, they'll probably have the best lineup in the entire chain after Cedar Point plus a kick a** drop tower, giant Frisbee, classic flyers and an amazing log flume. It's kind of ridiculous (in a good way).

 

Yes, I know the Kings Island people are coming. You can argue that, but I strongly disagree even without Twisted Timbers.

 

Why do you think they get this much investment, when its not warranted? Is it because of the competition in the area? Or because its the sister park of Kings Island, to try and keep it on KI's level?

[boldikus]

With the addition of Twisted Timbers, is KD the 3rd best Cedar Fair park?

 

This is completely and totally subjective. What do you look for in a park? Do you only care about coasters? Do you have kids and therefore need plenty of family rides for your whole pack to enjoy? Is themeing important to you? Atmosphere? Landscaping? Great food?

 

There's really no such thing as "what is the best" of anything because everyone is different and will have a different response to this question based on what makes a park the best to them.

 

Personally, I've only been to 3 CF Parks - Dorney, Cedar Point and Kings Dominion, so I don't have as much to compare to as others, but Cedar Point has the best coaster lineup imo, very closely followed by KD, and Dorney trailing far far behind. But CP I feel has a great thrill ride collection while KD's lineup is more well rounded for families. Both have a great flat collection. And I much prefer the landscaping/atmosphere/general vibe of Kings Dominion to the sterile midways and clean lines of Cedar Point.

 

I know some people actually prefer to go to Kings Island over Cedar Point and some will tell you they much prefer the atmosphere of Knotts over any of the CF parks. My point is everyone will have a different answer to this question.

 

Or because its the sister park of Kings Island, to try and keep it on KI's level?

[bill_s]

[..quotes..]

Why do you think they get this much investment, when its not warranted? Is it because of the competition in the area? Or because its the sister park of Kings Island, to try and keep it on KI's level?

 

Competition was a factor for sure. For years, there was a stable stand-off between BGW and KD, it was fairly well established that KD had more coasters but BGW was a nicer park. But then they reached a point that BGW had 3 B&Ms that were arguably better than anything at KD and KD had no B&Ms, and many were saying BGW was the better coaster park as well (some still do). If this had been allowed to stand, KD would be going the way of SFA by now. Even after adding Dominator in 2008 (at the expense of Hypersonic), there were times I expected to see tumbleweeds blowing across the empty asphalt in 2009. So they added I305 which was a huge step. I think that was part of a 5 year plan of improvements but went in the first year of it, so it's taking a while (including the loss of 2 coasters, although I'd argue that Hurler was lost in 2010 with the trim brake) to add another coaster even with a budget solution.

 

 

NEWS

 

Looking around the net, short bit of news is the peak side of the Volcano is covered with scaffolding. There was a little at the top last year, and some work done without scaffolds at the back, but this looks big.

 

Twisted Timbers trackwork is almost done, with the overbank turn over halfway and the only other missing track the spot for the crane to pass thru.

 

The "Cutback" element on TT is fascinating to me and I have spent a good while analyzing it. From overhead, it actually looks like the track curves opposite of the overall curve right in the middle of the inversion. What I think is happening there is the train/rider heartline goes in a straight line in overhead view for a length, but the twisting activity during that makes it so the track following it curves. There is a slight bend between the mini-hills before and after the Cutback and the rest of the coaster as well, the Cutback itself is not as wide as the original curve nor does it include a full 180 degrees of turn as part of it. However, a lot of the remaining 155 degrees or so of curve is compressed into two curves forming the entrance and exit to the cutback that look quite small and lightly banked. The mini hills sort of cut a straight line across the curve of the wide footers towards the center of the curve and then heading back out towards the outside -- the footers start to turn quite far away, on the original ride there was a very parabolicly smoothed entry for what it was worth.

 

This is another variation on the "stall" element. On Goliath and T Colossus there is a twist to upside down, the twisting movement is forced to a stop, and then there is maybe 2 seconds of complete forcelessness. With Wicked Cyclone the stall has only an instant of forcelessness and a slightly longer time of low twisting forces only; it is also asymmetrical with a tall steep entrance. TT's is a lot flatter and symmetrical, as well as bigger and faster, but will probably only have an instant of forcelessness, or 2 (symmetry), or maybe even that whole section will be weightless with a constant very gentle twist acceleration. Entering the element is a curve to the right and up with a clockwise twist. At approx. the time it reaches sideways the twist acceleration stops and shortly after there appears to be a rather defined point that 3 things happen: The twist begins to decelerate, the rider heartline ceases to curve in the horizontal dimensions, and the heartline takes on a weightlessness-generating hill shape. The twist reaches a stop and reverses at the dead center of the inversion and the element concludes by a reversal of how it started.

[ytterbiumanalyst]

I know some people actually prefer to go to Kings Island over Cedar Point and some will tell you they much prefer the atmosphere of Knotts over any of the CF parks. My point is everyone will have a different answer to this question.

 

Seriously, though, while Cedar Point has some of the very best coasters anywhere, for food quality, atmosphere, and non-coaster rides, Kings Island and Knott's are both better. Knott's best coaster is boysenberry pie, and they have one of the best non-Disney dark rides and one of the best log flumes anywhere. If you're there for coasters and nothing else, well, Cedar Point's your place. But for me, there's only place where I can get a boysenberry beer then ride a f*cking stagecoach.

[KICoasterkev]

^^Good to hear the history of why it got more investment, and glad they put the 5 year plan into place at the time they did! The next 5 year plan looks to be shaping up to be a great time for KD as well! Twisted Timbers can't get here soon enough!

[SLCHeadache]

[..quotes..]

Why do you think they get this much investment, when its not warranted? Is it because of the competition in the area? Or because its the sister park of Kings Island, to try and keep it on KI's level?

 

Competition was a factor for sure. For years, there was a stable stand-off between BGW and KD, it was fairly well established that KD had more coasters but BGW was a nicer park. But then they reached a point that BGW had 3 B&Ms that were arguably better than anything at KD and KD had no B&Ms, and many were saying BGW was the better coaster park as well (some still do). If this had been allowed to stand, KD would be going the way of SFA by now. Even after adding Dominator in 2008 (at the expense of Hypersonic), there were times I expected to see tumbleweeds blowing across the empty asphalt in 2009. So they added I305 which was a huge step. I think that was part of a 5 year plan of improvements but went in the first year of it, so it's taking a while (including the loss of 2 coasters, although I'd argue that Hurler was lost in 2010 with the trim brake) to add another coaster even with a budget solution.

I would argue that the loss of the Big Bad Wolf was another factor in KD catching up to BGW, and that KD had a stronger lineup from 2010-2016 between KD losing only dead weight and BGW adding subpar coasters. InvadR was a worthy addition, and caught KD completely off guard. Twisted Timbers will give KD the edge again and Project Madrid will have to be a coaster to compete.

[bill_s]

^^-- well yeah, but BGW getting weaker wasn't a motivation for KD getting better. In my view, KD still had a better lineup in 2017 as well, if only because all the attention Grizzly and RY have received in the last few years, but it becomes harder to gauge and more of a matter of opinion. I didn't think Shockwave, or Hurler before the 2010 trim brake and being left to rot, weren't dead weight but I understand how it could make KD easier to gauge for most people with a low opinion of those rides. I've said it before that trying to compare better coasters with a park with over twice as many results in a kind of "funny math" and this was especially a problem in 2007 and somewhat in 2008-09 -- which upon further thought tends to confirm whatever one's pre-existing conceptions are. Since I'm a local to KD especially and judge it on its suitability as a home park more than a destination park and that indeed is its strong point, I prefer KD but certainly have loved BGW at times. Having more coasters, even if one was Shockwave, allows more variation in riding them when making short visits since part of that variation means choosing which rides to skip.

[mike541x]

Twisted Timbers' track work is almost done.

 

 

[DoinItForTheFame]

^ It's so beautiful!!!

 

I bet it's going to ride amazingly awesome too!!!

[njcoasterguy34]

I am definitely going to have to plan another trip down to Kings Dominion.

[MiningForGold]

Getting real close to completion!

Edited January 13, 2018 by MiningForGold

[Rayj]

Imagine one side of Rebel Yell going backwards for the 2018 season with the addition of Twisted Timbers. One can only dream...

[boldikus]

Just shared on RMC's FB page.

 

Trackwork is (almost) complete. Are those all new trees they planted in the infield? If so thats friggin awesome, will certainly increase the sense of speed as you fly passed them.

 

Edited January 13, 2018 by boldikus

[thrillseeker4552]

Awesome! That inverted overbank/cutback thing looks so cool.

[njcoasterguy34]

[bill_s]

In my analysis a page or so ago, I was saying the track bends inward outside of the little bunny hops before and after the cutback, making the cutback/curve element narrower than the original curve and less than 180 degrees. Now that they've finished the big overbanked curve I see it is similar in that respect. This makes the overbank make a lot more sense as a smooth overbank can produce more turning force. The ride has been increased in height 28' but the overbank is 15-20' higher than the original curve so it isn't a lot faster. So, a tighter radius makes it not seem weak and overcomes my objection to the original prediction. I can't tell but it may not be as symmetrical as the cutback. As it is, the track looks to come very close to the corner of the station, that projecting bit that looks like a little elevator or something. The exit of the curve comes closer to the turnaround to the lift than originally as well.

 

Looking again at the announcement video, at all 4 slight bends I am talking about they pull away from the on-ride POV at all 4 of them, making it hard to judge anything.

[ytterbiumanalyst]

Those last two photos are very reminiscent of Outlaw Run. Y'all are going to love this.

[Canobie Coaster]

While I think Steel Vengeance is my most anticipated coaster of the year, I don't think this looks far behind. The pacing on this thing looks like it'll be incredible.