Canada's Wonderland Discussion Thread

[Kumbarider1993]

Yea the ending looked a little half baked, but then again they're already spending 28 million. Imagine adding another section of track to weave through after a MCBR. Steel is not cheap.

 

Still though, why not put the brake run closer to the station level instead of spend more money and have a huge raised ramp? This reminds me a lot of the corkscrews on Vortex @ King's Island. Just one of those Wtf moments on a coaster.

[Kumbarider1993]

Another curiosity of mine is at the bottom of the first drop, there's a ditch, is this going to be filled with water for a "splashdown" effect? The vids/pics show just a concrete hole...

 

Perhaps they couldn't build the drop as high as they wanted, so the used the Riverview park trick and lowered it below ground level?

[harper83087]

^Possibly. Though a splashdown at the start of the ride would be unique and kind of symbolize the start of your battle with Leviathan But I guess that would also slow the train a bit too.

[lankanboy101]

Another curiosity of mine is at the bottom of the first drop, there's a ditch, is this going to be filled with water for a "splashdown" effect? The vids/pics show just a concrete hole...

 

The Ditch is a Ditch, if it was going to be a splash down, they would have made it clear in the rendering. The only purpose of the ditch was probably to increase the drop of the ride without increasing the height (like Goliath and Bizarro) so it breaks a record.

[Jcoaster]

I think its awesome that B&M has finally decided to dive into the world of Giga coasters. As far as Canada's Wonderland and CF's decision making goes....WHAT THE HELL were they thinking? I don't understand having both Behemoth and this coaster in the same park. If i'm part of the GP whats going on in my mind is "Why ride Behemoth when I can ride the bigger, badder version on the other side of the park?"

[coasterfreak101]

I can somewhat justify the brake run for people - the first flat section is built above Dragon's Fire. Now, I think it would've been really nice to see a small, elevated bump down and back up, still above the coaster already there, and then the slanted brake run.

 

Also, what I've mentioned before is that the first flat brake section probably acts as a block section, allowing the next train to crest the lift hill safely. If that's the case, the three trains can run smoothly, with one on the downhill section of brakes, one nearing the crest of the lift, and one in the station being boarded.

[Zpoon]

A good way of justifying the long brake run is the lack of need for an MCBR. If you really think about it it was either have an MCBR somewhere in the track eliminating an element or just have one long brake run that also functions as the MCBR. (I'm talking about train clearances, not brakes or trims)

 

Also for the people who think Behemoth will die now because of this, I don't think that will happen. I know of a LOT of people whom have yet to ride it because they're too scared and they're working their way up. There will still be a crowd that will ride it now that there is more of a gradient.

Edited August 18, 2011 by Zpoon

[Jive]

I'm guessing that the long brake run is due to the fact that they're running 3 trains without a mid-course. It probably costs as two blocks in the computer.

 

EDIT: Looks like a couple of people beat me to it.

Edited August 18, 2011 by Jive

[asimowalk]

Another curiosity of mine is at the bottom of the first drop, there's a ditch, is this going to be filled with water for a "splashdown" effect? The vids/pics show just a concrete hole...

 

The Ditch is a Ditch, if it was going to be a splash down, they would have made it clear in the rendering. The only purpose of the ditch was probably to increase the drop of the ride without increasing the height (like Goliath and Bizarro) so it breaks a record.

I'm kind of expecting the ditch to be equipped with fog machines or at least smart lighting... As far as CF concrete jokes go, I still can't see them leaving it looking like a parking lot coaster.

Edited August 18, 2011 by asimowalk

[Jds03]

For what it's worth... Speaking with a few different members of park management this morning about the planning of this ride, it appears this ride was always intended to end up at Canada's Wonderland. Each of them mentioned that the planning stages of this coaster basically started around the year Behemoth opened. Whether you want to believe or not, that's the info I was provided with this morning.

 

I can kind of see this, but only in a very basic sense, as in " We were hoping to add a "Milennium" to our collection in a few years, now that we have a hyper". Other than that, i think the specifics of how cooperate went about fulfilling that were more like Robb said, otherwise we probably wouldn't be looking at this whole "Behemoth 2" debate.

 

I highly doubt the management would be able to say " we want a bigger, faster version of the last ride, please give us 28 million dollars, kthxbia"

 

Clearly a ride of this scale was mostly a cooperate plan, aided by input by park management over how the last ride went. And judging by how well Behemoth went over at the park, i could see management making plans for a Giga coaster in the future, and after CF made I305 they were obviously one of the possible parks CF was looking at for the next giga. What probably happened was Cedar Fair was pleased with i305 but happier with their past three installations of B&M mega coasters, so they approached B&M to make their next Giga coaster and B&M worked with this request while cooperate figured out which of several parks needed it most.

Edited August 18, 2011 by Jds03

[pcwarryk]

New poster, long-time CW fanboy.

 

I must admit, I too was disappointed upon reading the Leviathan announcement. Now, I've come to terms with how amazing the addition will be for the park, despite its shortcomings in the themeing, brake run, and similarity-to-Behemoth departments.

 

I think our universal disappointment stems from our belief that this is the be-all-and-end-all for CW. However, if we were to think more long term, I'm sure CF has much more up their sleeve for CW -- Behemoth and Leviathan are just the tipping point. After all, the press release emphasizes CW's new position as a "destination" park, and as suggested earlier in this thread, CF seems to be turning CW into another Cedar Point in "half the time". There is still time and space for a WingRider, a flyer, a dive machine, and more!

 

Now if only they hadn't sold all that land, this "destination" park could've had a hotel too!

 

(Keep in mind however, the land sale awarded Cedar Fair $23 million in 2009 -- how much did Leviathan cost?)...

[Jcoaster]

I'm curious to see how this B&M Giga will ride. Sometimes less is more, it could not be what we expect. After all this is a new concept for B&M.

[coasterbill]

Also for the people who think Behemoth will die now because of this, I don't think that will happen.

 

Does anyone think that will happen? lol

 

First of all I still say the experiences look quite different and I could easily see how people would prefer Behemoth. Plus... now the park has 2 great coasters... if you're spending the whole day I'd imagine you'd ride both multiple times.

[Jerrykoala2112]

I really don't want to think negatively about this ride, it looks pretty pleasant. But I still remember when the renderings of I305 came out and people were beyond disappointed, and now, it seems to be a very well-liked roller coaster. I'm glad they B&M went back to the old style trains.

[Cavs Fan]

I don't think that this ride really filled any of the "holes" in this park. I'm positive that we would have been much happier and supportive of this decision if it was a floorless or an invert or a dive machine. At least in the future the park can get one of those and have the bonus giga coaster. It seems that it kind of just went out of order. I personally think it would have been awesome if CW and B&M could kill two birds with one stone if they had a dive machine giga coaster, but i'm not the smartest guy and I don't even know if that is possible.

 

All of my headscratching aside, I'm pretty pumped for this ride and my first visit to CW and Canada itself next year.

[FeelTheFORCE]

Looks awesome! Can't wait to get there someday!

[XYZ]

Maybe they will use this design to make a similar coaster in Knott's because it seems like the coaster doesn't take up much room. (If this was mentioned, sorry I just can't go through 25 pages.)

 

Also, the price is not extremely high since both Millennium Force & Intimidator 305 costed $25 million and this only costs $28 million. I think the extra cost is because it has 6 large hills while Millennium Force and I305 both have 4.

 

2 things that concern me is the amount of time to reach the top and the short duration from the top of lift to brakes (though I305 is also short like this).

[bumprnugit]

I see Leviathan coming after Behemoth a lot like when a park builds back to back wooden coasters. Holiday World being a good example, Raven, Legend, Voyage... same type of ride but with very different layouts. That's why I'm surprised some people aren't receiving Leviathan well, it's not going to FEEL like Behemoth.

 

Do you really think that? With B&M the last 5-10 years if there's one thing I've come to expect is that the rides will FEEL exactly the same! Goliath, Goliath, Intimidator, and even the older hypers and newer ones, I could close my eyes and have no clue which one is which!

I totally agree with this - I've been on quite a few B&M Hypers now, almost back to back in the past 14 months - Silver Star, Apollo, Nitro, Goliath, Goliath, Intimidator, Diamondback, Hollywood Dream, etc, and Elissa is right, they all feel exactly the same.

 

I too have felt that B&M thrills have become homogenized for quite some time. It's like buying a Big Mac in NY or LA; the corporate ideal is that they will taste the same. However at 300 feet this certainly does look intriguing.

 

Despite some perceived similarities posted elsewhere regarding Behemoth, I think Leviathan will more than cut the muster. And I can only imagine what that first drop will feel like in the back seat!

Edited August 18, 2011 by bumprnugit

[KSo]

As someone with Wonderland as their home park and as an enthusiast who has ridden 570 coasters, I'm fine with this announcement and choice of coaster type for a few reasons. When I saw the layout and specs it looks more similar to a Millennium Force type of coaster (fast and turny) than Behemoth which is more of a hilly airtime type of design, so I think the rides will be different enough to be distinct and enjoyable. I haven't ridden some of the other recent offerings like either of the Intimidators or Diamondback that people are comparing the layout to but I do enjoy Millennium Force whenever I get to Cedar Point. Although, I wouldn't have minded a tunnel or 2 like Millennium Force has. Other than Behemoth, the coaster lineup is very tame for the thrill seeker at this park, so it will be no worse than the second best coaster of the bunch, guaranteed! The wooden coasters are even more pathetic, though, so if I had my say I might have suggested something like a GCI wooden coaster before another steel coaster of any type. I guess I'll still have to go on road trips to Martin's Fantasy Island or Waldameer to get a ride on a decent wooden coaster. Although, I would have had difficulty objecting to a steel coaster like Maverick, as some have suggested here. A floorless or inverted wouldn't be too bad either. I'm not a big fan of the flying coasters or dive machines, so for me Leviathan is a better option than either of those. I like the location on the other side of the park away from where most of the newer rides(Psyclone, Sledge hammer, Time Warp, Backlot Stunt Coaster, Behemoth) have been added, recently. This should help ease some congestion. Right now, I only go to that corner of the park to ride Riptide, the park's topspin. Also, to put this in a historical perspective from a local enthusiast, the Cedar Fair era has already eclipsed the Paramount era. In the 1994-2006 Paramount era (12 years total) the coasters added were Flight Deck, the Fly, Time Warp, and Backlot Stunt Coaster. With only Flight Deck being a coaster of any interest to thrill seekers in that crop. While, in what will be 6 years of Cedar Fair by 2012 the park will have received their 2 biggest, best, and priciest coasters. So, while the announcement might not have been exactly what people were expecting, at least it's a step in the right direction.

[paulm12]

While a bit of a head scratcher at the similarities between Leviathan and Behemoth being installed back to back, what is more funny to me is another blatant example that Paul Rubens is full of crap and that his "expert opinion" can be bought. I'm curious what they had to give him in order for him to say this is the one ride he's most looking forward to next year, when you have two very unique rides opening at both Hershey and Dollywood. Really Paul, a B&M that is a bit taller than the hypercoaster across the park is the one that is your must ride over those other two? Maybe he doesn't think he'll fit into the restraints on the other two, so what he should have said was it's the ride he's most looking forward to that won't cause him to have a restraint non-closure walk of shame. How these parks think this guy's opinon gives any credence to their projects is baffling.

While I don't personally find Paul's comments that valid either, making pot shots about his weight and other childish comments isn't much better than those idiots who hate on TPR and post clueless comments like these.

 

This will be the only warning. Comments like these, which are obvious flame bait, will not be tolerated on this forum.

Lol I was about to get all defensive, then I noticed you weren't even talking about me! Back to the matter at hand, Can we please talk more about the ride (itself)? In terms of layout, speed, future designs. I think the whole "Leviathan is a new Behemoth" argument has been tired out. Finally, might I add that most of B&M's hyper design, while similar, are fitted to maximize space, not to bore you. Parks request this design (I'm speculating here) so they can eventually add new rides because of it's thin footprint, and because they know the design works and is reliable; kinda like why Batman and boomerang are cloned so much. Sticking to something familiar and adding 70' is a good move for B&M, as they're using a formula people like, they know works technically and financially (both initial and in the long run), and is obviously reliable. I think the problem here isn't about the ride not being original, its about the park having two similar coasters, both of which, I think are great.

[Saldek]

Also, the price is not extremely high since both Millennium Force & Intimidator 305 costed $25 million and this only costs $28 million. I think the extra cost is because it has 6 large hills while Millennium Force and I305 both have 4.

 

You really can't compare the price of Millennium Force to Leviathan because the price of steel was a lot cheaper back in 2000 than it is today. If MF were built today it would cost a lot more than its original price over a decade ago.

[XYZ]

It's funny that in biblical terms, the Behemoth is the Land Monster and Leviathan is the Sea Monster. Think of the creatures like the Yin Yang symbol. With Behemoth as the Yin and Leviathan as the Yang (or vice versa).

[adamico2]

It really does sort of feel like Christmas morning when you wake up and there's that really big box under the tree with your name on it, and you rip it open because you've been waiting for that super-deluxe Hot Wheels set for, like, a million years, and finally, it's here, YOU KNOW IT IS!

 

And then it turns out to be a Hot Wheels set, but not that one with the two double-decker speed launchers, just the normal one, which is STILL REALLY COOL, but not that one you were hoping for.

 

And you want to be grateful, because you'd look like a total a-hole being sullen about it... but still...

 

Wow. I don't think you could have possibly summed up my feelings any better. Needless to say, I still really enjoyed playing with that Hot Wheels set and will probably be driving up to Canada this summer. (I just got my Enhanced License!)

[beatle11]

I find it hard to believe that there are so many people here that are at least somewhat disappointed by the announcement. It's a freaking Giga coaster! How many parks have a Giga coaster? It's definitely not what I had expected CW to go for, but I'm definitely happy.

[Kumbarider1993]

Also for the people who think Behemoth will die now because of this, I don't think that will happen.

 

Does anyone think that will happen? lol

 

First of all I still say the experiences look quite different and I could easily see how people would prefer Behemoth. Plus... now the park has 2 great coasters... if you're spending the whole day I'd imagine you'd ride both multiple times.

 

Exactly. Did Millenium Force become any less popular when the Dragster was built? No.