Canada's Wonderland Discussion Thread

[robbalvey]

I am still putting money on that this ride was not originally planned for Canada's Wonderland. I just simply do not believe that any parks "long-term plan" would have called for two rides, which are so similar (and they ARE very similar, don't even try to sell me the 'this ride is very different than Behemoth BS'), and so expensive, to be built back-to-back.

 

I'm guessing that this ride was originally meant to go into another CF parks long-term capital plan, but it didn't pan out, and at the 11th hour they needed to find a home for this coaster. And for many reasons, CW was a perfect fit. And trust me, this kind of thing happens ALL THE TIME!

 

While I'm never going to be "disappointed" to see a new ride built, if this actually WAS part of the parks long-term plan, I personally do not think this ride is a good fit for this park, and something like a "Maverick" would have been a much more intelligent choice. But let's hope a ride like that might actually be in their 5-year plan!

 

--Robb "This looks like every other B&M hyper to me...just taller. Where is the outside the box part? I don't see it. " Alvey

Edited August 18, 2011 by robbalvey

[DannyBoy]

^^^You guys analyze and dumb down the GP way too much. They aren't that stupid and they wouldn't think a B&M flyer is the same as Tomb Raider. Its not like they are a bunch of idiots, they can tell differences between 2 things. Cool ride brah. Just...the experience seems way too close to Behemoth and actually, Behemoth looks a lot better.

 

I'm not calling them idiots, just unknowing on this subject. They don't analyze rides to the level we do. The majority just go to the park, ride the rides, eat some funnel cake and go home happy. I've showed several local non-enthusiasts friends of mine Raptor (CP) and, without fail, the first thing they say is "Oh, that's like Top Gun (CW SLC)." Remember, this is the Toronto area GP. I have no doubt that the Ohio, SoCal and Florida GP, who are a stone's throw from 3 or 4 major parks, are more educated in the coaster realm.

[AJClarke0912]

As for this being too similar to Behemoth....again the GP here has a very limited scope as far as coaster knowledge. If they put in a B&M flyer, they'd think it was the same as the terrible Tomb Raider/Time Warp. If they put in a B&M invert they'd think it was the same as the terrible Top Gun/Flight Deck.

I wouldn't say that's true. They may not know the manufacturer or anything like that, but they DO generally know what ride is more fun and which one is smoother. So that's not really a valid argument.

 

The thing that is true is that the GP won't be "complaining"...they'll just think it's awesome. But if they had something like Intimidator 305, they'd be able to tell a pretty decent difference between that and Behemoth. Some would probably call it "super-intense". With this next addition, they'll still think it's extreme (since they usually don't know of the Intamin counterpart), but I can predict that a lot of people will say that "it's like JUST like Behemoth (or "that one over there"), only even BIGGER!". That doesn't mean they don't like it or are disappointed, but they will sense a similarity. If people at Holiday World say that The Legend is "just like The Raven but bigger" (even though it really isn't quite like that), then I'm sure they will categorize Behemoth and Leviathan similarly.

[Ian_D]

My thoughts...

 

Am I unimpressed by the layout, old train design and no tunnels or splashdowns? Yup. Do I think B&M should have gone a little bit taller and longer to break some records? Definitely. Am I surprised that they didn't? No.

 

That being said, I think this ride has the potential to be amazing, and it probably will be. The name Laviathan is really kick a@$ and should fit well in the Medieval Faire section of the park.

 

I'm still pretty excited about it. So much so that I bought a 2012 season pass this morning. So there, Cedar Fair, mission accomplished!

 

[CoasterLine]

And by the way, the reason that they only went 306 feet probably has more to do with the 28 million dollar price tag than the height of Millennium Force.

 

Well, I don't think that the extra 5 feet would have cost that much money. So, it all comes down to protecting Cedar Fair's crown park, Cedar Point.

 

You don't think it would cost that much more, based on what? This not only would increase the lift height, but drop height, which means faster speed which effects the size and spans of further elements, and overall track length, let alone space it would take up, with more footers, etc. I could go on. More steel, more land, more construction = more money. I could easily see the extra 5 feet in height to overall cost .5 to 1 million dollars more.

[Electerik]

Either it matters what enthusiasts think or it doesn't. If it does, then we should be honest. If it doesn't, then we might as well be. Maybe at some free media day thing, we should be diplomatic. But here? The general public doesn't read these boards. Do the parks? Probably. But think of it this way: Maybe they use what we say to help figure out how to advertise these things. (Or maybe they don't. My point is: Honesty is still the best policy.)

 

Also, page after page of "this looks awesome" is boring and pointless to read. I'd much rather debate whether some new ride is too much this or too little that. In fact, the only thing I really get tired of reading is, "Stop complaining!"

 

In any case, I'm still trying to figure out why Holiday World would add The Legend. I mean, it's the same type of roller coaster from the same manufacturer as Raven. They're even the same color! Idiots!

[supertrooper]

I'm going to assume that this did not meet the criteria to have CW included on the "New Hotness" trip next year or any sort of "LeviaBash" for that matter?

 

I'd still like to ride it, but I was hoping I would be amazed by the announcement when I got up this morning. I wasn't.

[BeemerBoy]

$28 million could've bought dueling mega-lites.

[robbalvey]

Here's a fun little thread to get you all thinking: http://www.themeparkreview.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=60240

[DannyBoy]

Either it matters what enthusiasts think or it doesn't. If it does, then we should be honest. If it doesn't, then we might as well be. Maybe at some free media day thing, we should be diplomatic. But here? The general public doesn't read these boards. Do the parks? Probably. But think of it this way: Maybe they use what we say to help figure out how to advertise these things. (Or maybe they don't. My point is: Honesty is still the best policy.)

 

Also, page after page of "this looks awesome" is boring and pointless to read. I'd much rather debate whether some new ride is too much this or too little that. In fact, the only thing I really get tired of reading is, "Stop complaining!"

 

In any case, I'm still trying to figure out why Holiday World would add The Legend. I mean, it's the same type of roller coaster from the same manufacturer as Raven. They're even the same color! Idiots!

 

Very well put, Erik. You're exactly right in that die-hard customers will provide the best feedback. What can I say, I'm a "glass half full" guy

[RoCo]

It really does sort of feel like Christmas morning when you wake up and there's that really big box under the tree with your name on it, and you rip it open because you've been waiting for that super-deluxe Hot Wheels set for, like, a million years, and finally, it's here, YOU KNOW IT IS!

 

And then it turns out to be a Hot Wheels set, but not that one with the two double-decker speed launchers, just the normal one, which is STILL REALLY COOL, but not that one you were hoping for.

 

And you want to be grateful, because you'd look like a total a-hole being sullen about it... but still...

[Real]

^^^You guys analyze and dumb down the GP way too much. They aren't that stupid and they wouldn't think a B&M flyer is the same as Tomb Raider. Its not like they are a bunch of idiots, they can tell differences between 2 things. Cool ride brah. Just...the experience seems way too close to Behemoth and actually, Behemoth looks a lot better.

 

I'm not calling them idiots, just unknowing on this subject. They don't analyze rides to the level we do. The majority just go to the park, ride the rides, eat some funnel cake and go home happy. I've showed several local non-enthusiasts friends of mine Raptor (CP) and, without fail, the first thing they say is "Oh, that's like Top Gun (CW SLC)." Remember, this is the Toronto area GP. I have no doubt that the Ohio, SoCal and Florida GP, who are a stone's throw from 3 or 4 major parks, are more educated in the coaster realm.

 

Weird because Ive had the opposite experience. But even if they "thought" it was the same thing, they would STILL go to the park, ride it and be like OMFG thats not the same. Your point doesnt include the fact that new rides still draw people in, especially locals who probably make it at least once a year trip. So while from a video it may look the same, they arent going to not go just because of that. Its a new ride, people go to ride new rides.

[DJeXeL]

I am still putting money on that this ride was not originally planned for Canada's Wonderland. I just simply do not believe that any parks "long-term plan" would have called for two rides, which are so similar (and they ARE very similar, don't even try to sell me the 'this ride is very different than Behemoth BS'), and so expensive, to be built back-to-back.

 

I'm guessing that this ride was originally meant to go into another CF parks long-term capital plan, but it didn't pan out, and at the 11th hour they needed to find a home for this coaster. And for many reasons, CW was a perfect fit. And trust me, this kind of thing happens ALL THE TIME!

 

While I'm never going to be "disappointed" to see a new ride built, if this actually WAS part of the parks long-term plan, I personally do not think this ride is a good fit for this park, and something like a "Maverick" would have been a much more intelligent choice. But let's hope a ride like that might actually be in their 5-year plan!

 

--Robb "This looks like every other B&M hyper to me...just taller. Where is the outside the box part? I don't see it. " Alvey

 

Exactly! This ride is EXTREMELY redundant with Behemoth there. Period! I don't care how any fanboy tries to justify it.

By "outside of the box" I mean at least B&M is willing to build taller than 239'.

[CorkscrewFoley]

I will admit i was a little underwhelmed from the layout, this was while I was looking for the video, and had the just like behemoth mentality. Then I watched the video, yes, they're both Beemers and are out and backs--this is where it ends. There's more elements to Levi than Behemoth. Now the question remians, will this be a fun ride, absolutely! Will I want to ride it? You bet your @$$ I do!

[robbalvey]

Its a new ride, people go to ride new rides.

Exactly. The GP will go ride it regardless. And, if it turns out to be a GOOD ride, they will love it, regardless if it's very similar to the other ride across the park. That being said, I'm a person who prefers a bit more variety, and on top of that, hasn't been "wowed" by anything B&M has done lately. Of course, THAT being said, the only B&M hyper built in the past 10 years I felt was really notable was Behemoth.

 

I will always reserve judgement on something until I ride it, but I can still have hoped that this ride would have offered more variety for the park.

 

--Robb "Still betting this ride was originally meant for another CF park...." Alvey

[RoCo]

Now the question remains, will this be a fun ride, absolutely! Will I want to ride it? You bet your @$$ I do!

 

Should have added this myself: Totally agreed. A B&M giga is still a great thing.

[CorkscrewFoley]

Now the question remains, will this be a fun ride, absolutely! Will I want to ride it? You bet your @$$ I do!

 

Should have added this myself: Totally agreed. A B&M giga is still a great thing.

 

Exactly! A frakking B&M Giga for pete sake. I'm an Intamin fan boy, and I was impressed Walter and Claude took the dive. Still, some of the complaints remind me of a spoiled child complaining that his big Xmas gift wasn't what he wanted...

[DJeXeL]

^^^^I'm with you on the "meant for another park notion" but what park? It would be redundant in all CF parks. Only exceptions would be MIA, KBF and CGA which you cant for so many reasons....noise, height restrictions etc.......

 

MIA - Little too pricey of an addition for that park

KBF - Maybe but not with that layout

Edited August 18, 2011 by DJeXeL

[CorkscrewFoley]

Its a new ride, people go to ride new rides.

Exactly. The GP will go ride it regardless. And, if it turns out to be a GOOD ride, they will love it, regardless if it's very similar to the other ride across the park. That being said, I'm a person who prefers a bit more variety, and on top of that, hasn't been "wowed" by anything B&M has done lately. Of course, THAT being said, the only B&M hyper built in the past 10 years I felt was really notable was Behemoth.

 

I will always reserve judgement on something until I ride it, but I can still have hoped that this ride would have offered more variety for the park.

 

--Robb "Still betting this ride was originally meant for another CF park...." Alvey

 

Robb, I wish more people thought like you about not passing judgment until they've ridden it.

[robbalvey]

^^^^I'm with you on the "meant for another park notion" but what park? It would be redundant in all CF parks. Only exceptions would be MIA, KBF and CGA which you cant for so many reasons....noise height restrictions etc.......

 

MIA - Little too pricey of an addition for that park

KBF - Maybe but not with that layout

If KBF was going to build it outside the park, like they did with GhostRider, or like they are doing with the installation at CW, they could have made it work.

 

And yes, it would have been more redundant at other CF parks, but would have made more SENSE at at park like Valleyfair, Dorney, or Worlds of Fun, who got their last "non-looping mega coaster" more than 10 years ago.

[Zpoon]

Now that it's sunken in I do have to ay I'm disappointed with the complete absence of theming. I thought for sure the digging construction they were doing after the first drop would have been a splashdown or SOMETHING. Not a concrete ditch. Even the station looks generic as hell. Perhaps come May they'll add something.

[DannyBoy]

^^^You guys analyze and dumb down the GP way too much. They aren't that stupid and they wouldn't think a B&M flyer is the same as Tomb Raider. Its not like they are a bunch of idiots, they can tell differences between 2 things. Cool ride brah. Just...the experience seems way too close to Behemoth and actually, Behemoth looks a lot better.

 

I'm not calling them idiots, just unknowing on this subject. They don't analyze rides to the level we do. The majority just go to the park, ride the rides, eat some funnel cake and go home happy. I've showed several local non-enthusiasts friends of mine Raptor (CP) and, without fail, the first thing they say is "Oh, that's like Top Gun (CW SLC)." Remember, this is the Toronto area GP. I have no doubt that the Ohio, SoCal and Florida GP, who are a stone's throw from 3 or 4 major parks, are more educated in the coaster realm.

 

Weird because Ive had the opposite experience. But even if they "thought" it was the same thing, they would STILL go to the park, ride it and be like OMFG thats not the same. Your point doesnt include the fact that new rides still draw people in, especially locals who probably make it at least once a year trip. So while from a video it may look the same, they arent going to not go just because of that. Its a new ride, people go to ride new rides.

 

Correct. That exact thing has happened. The same people have come to CP with me, rode Raptor and basically said "that destroys Top Gun". New rides do draw people in, except a new type of ride may have a better effect. Granted, Leviathan is quite similar to Behemoth. In my opinion, CF just went with bigger and faster (or were forced to, if Robb's hunch is correct) in this case rather than radically different in order to avoid too-much-too-soon in this market. CW is doing gangbusters as far as attendance goes. My belief is that we'll see a couple of different styles of coasters hit CW over the next 10 years.

[coasterfreak101]

You figure that KD and KI's last major installations were a giga and a B&M hyper, respectively. I doubt Valleyfair is in the market for such a huge ride, and Michigan's Adventure and CGA are getting the short end of the Cedar Fair stick. Cedar Point doesn't need this, and Dorney's already getting a new ride - what's left? Knott's and Canada's Wonderland. And we were all looking for a giga at Knott's - we assumed Intamin, but who knows now? I wouldn't be surprised, like Robb said, if this was headed there to run along the park border just like it will at CW come next May - until a last-minute corporate decision sent it up to Toronto.

[ernierocker]

I think when the fall and winter goes by and you don't hear a ride announcement at Knotts Berry Farm for a Gigacoaster, you know what happened to it.

 

As far as Leviathan goes, there is really isn't too much more that I can add that hasn't already been said. The ride is tall and fast. It essentially has the same layout as Great American Scream Machine at Six Flags Over Georgia. I would like to think that a 306' tall coaster could/should have a more creative layout. But, in the end, the ride will probably be fun to ride and extremely popular. In the end, that is all that really matters.

[hippidude]

you know regardless of if its similar to behemoth or not it still looks amazing in the sense that its bandm's first giga coaster. if my park had two tall bandm's i would be happy, its just a matter of opinion i guess. i think it looks awesome and i would love to ride it.