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Cedar Point (CP) Discussion Thread

P. 1989: Wicked Twister's permanent closure announced!

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Wild Eagle was much more forceful than I was expecting it to be, maybe Gatekeeper will be similar.

See, and I found Wild Eagle to be one of the most force less B&Ms to date. To be fair, I thought the ride was better than I thought it was going to be, and had "fun" riding it, but I really felt it had zero forces in it and was PERFECT for the general public.

 

I want my B&Ms to be like Kumba, Nemesis, Pyrenees, Katun, and Dragons... Where you hit the brake run and need to catch your breath. I can only name a couple of B&Ms in the past decade that are like this.

 

--Robb "I get it though, I'm not their core audience." Alvey

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Wild Eagle was much more forceful than I was expecting it to be, maybe Gatekeeper will be similar.

See, and I found Wild Eagle to be one of the most force less B&Ms to date. To be fair, I thought the ride was better than I thought it was going to be, and had "fun" riding it, but I really felt it had zero forces in it and was PERFECT for the general public.

 

The GP ate up "the eagle" as they called it. It was enjoyable but overall force less but the view of the mountains was incredible!

 

EDIT: Is it just me or does the first drop into the Immelman look VERY intense?

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I can't wait until they add the Immelman turn-around since you don't see many B&Ms entering them from the top and the train seems to flow beautifully through it.

I don't mean to get all technical but a that's considered a Dive loop (opposite of an Immelman). According to CP's press release they call it a Inclined Dive Loop – a tight, 180-degree turnaround pushes riders through an overbanked turn and rockets them back towards the station.

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See, and I found Wild Eagle to be one of the most force less B&Ms to date. To be fair, I thought the ride was better than I thought it was going to be, and had "fun" riding it, but I really felt it had zero forces in it and was PERFECT for the general public.

 

I want my B&Ms to be like Kumba, Nemesis, Pyrenees, Katun, and Dragons... Where you hit the brake run and need to catch your breath. I can only name a couple of B&Ms in the past decade that are like this.

 

--Robb "I get it though, I'm not their core audience." Alvey

 

Yeah, I went in expecting it to be completely force-less and very tame, and came away think the slight positive G's on the drop and loop were surprising. Overall my feeling were the same as yours though, fun ride, but nothing terribly memorable or top-10 worthy. Give me Kumba and Raptor all day.

 

I wonder if the Wingrider Trains are even capable of "old school" B&M forces?

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1. I'd guess around 220-230 ft

2. What part of it? The length of the catchcar track, the length before the train begins to go vertical, the length the train actually spends accelerating (from the beginning to the catchcar brakes)...

 

^This

The train uses somewhere around 320-350 feet to accelerate (No way to be really sure unless you show up with a ruler...) by my guess. This is the distance from the catchcar's starting point to the brakes used to stop it. Also, yes the ride senses the speed of acceleration, and the system shuts down when it senses it is going too fast, however the way it regulates launch speed is by setting an initial amount of power before every launch, then shuts down when the catchcar reaches its brakes. Yes there is a safety system in case it does launch too fast, but the ride typically uses the same distance for launch. Also, depending on all kinds of weather or misc things, the ride can launch between 112 and 122 mph to make sure it crests the top at a decent speed. (This is all to the best of my knowledge. The park reprograms rides a lot so it may change even from year to year.)

 

You just proved it yourself. Even though Batman is a VERY intense, action packed ride, you would still take "one of the most boring coasters you've ever been on" over it.

 

And that's why the majority of B&M's offerings the last ten years have been huge hits for parks and the general public, but pretty lame for the rest of us who actually like a roller coaster with a bit of punch and power to it.

THIS. I've been so disappointed by B&Ms latest stuff. I'd rather ride Raptor over most of the inverts I've been on. (Still waiting on the Florida inverts!) I know so many people rave about Alpengeist, but I found it to be kinda force-less as well. The ride is just big, and that's the gimmick. To me, the time between elements on it made the ride seem sluggish, despite its size. Same with wing riders. They're just different and that's the gimmick. I really hope GK turns out to prove me wrong, but all I see in it is a large, fun, force-less gimmick.

Edited by coasterlover420
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^^Then you would end up with something like Baco, being extremely rough and unridable to some people. I actually think that the wing riders should be more of a "Wee Im flying through the air!" even if that means less forces than normal coasters to get that smooth flying feeling, Instead of the "riding a jackhammer in the middle of an earthquake" feeling that Baco has with its more intense forces. Don't get me wrong, my top 3 are Skyrush, Kumba, and Intimidator 305, so I *love love* forceful ejector-air rides and do find the newer B&M's forceless (Intimidator is at my home park ), its just not quite what a wingrider is meant to be.

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I thought Wild Eagle wasn't all that forceful, but I found it to be a really nice experience. The ride was beautiful, the trains are humongous, it flows through the elements so nicely, it's an all-around good package. I LOVE straight drops on rides with no floor (inverts and wing coasters) so Wild Eagle's drop was one of my favorites. That said, I'm looking forward to GateKeeper's airtime hill. GateKeeper is going to be a hit for the park no matter what. That's for sure.

 

And I do believe the reason why wingriders won't ever be too forceful is just because of stress on the frame. When you have something that sticks out, like seats on a wing coaster, you can only support it from one side, reducing the amount of forces it can take. I don't know if this is the reason or not, but it's just a thought.

 

Side note about B&M's being forceless lately: Leviathan pulled some strong G's at the bottom of the drop and through that first overbank. If you were in the back seat, you'd get some nice ejector air on the drop. The speed hill after that is pretty nice too. After that, it kind of meanders around, but it shows B&M can still make a stellar ride with nice forces. While we won't see as many forceful coasters like those from the earlier days, I would bet that sometime B&M will make something pretty intense again.

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^^^Correct, the ride will fault if the catch car travels too far into its brakes. It's called an over-travel/over-speed. XC @ KBF had this issue mostly during the summer due to heat. That's why towards park closing (Usually starting 15-20 minutes prior to closing)the Ops @ XC are supposed to leave 1 car empty for a few dispatches and then 2 cars empty for a few dispatches that way the computer notices the weight differences so when an empty train is dispatched at the end of the night it will not fault.

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Raptor is my mother's favorite ride at Cedar Point, when we went to BGW over the summer we rode Alpengeist. After it was over she just looked at me and said, "That was underwhelming". I'm not sure if its just that she's been to a fair share of parks and enjoys the forces, but she is pretty much GP level and she noticed that it was rather forceless. I'm not so sure the GP doesn't dislike the intense rides necessarily, but that they don't really feel the need to re-ride the more intense rides like we do. I can ride I305 for hours on end and love it. My family though? They love it, but they have to catch their breath afterwards.

 

To those who have ridden B&M wing riders: Can you really compare the experiences of an invert to a wingrider? Are they really that similar?

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I don't feel like they are very similar at all. The only similarity is the fact your feet dangle. Having nothing above or below you makes it feel much more open around you. From the inverts I've ridden, they seem to be more on the intense side comparatively to a wing-rider. Like somebody previously mentioned, a wing-rider is a really good experience. One big thing I noticed was the difference of how the forces affected you depending on which side you were on, plus whatever part of the element you were in.

 

For me, they both have a place in the industry. They each have their own things that make them unique enough to both be there.

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^That's pretty much my opinion on Wing Coasters. I doubt that they're meant to have those intense forces, it seems to be the closest thing B&M has to a "family" coaster but is still marketable as a thrill ride. Made to to give the sensation of flight, with a mix of mild thrills, an overall "fun" coaster design with nothing to intense. Which is good news for B&M, they can finally sell outside the "big thrill ride" market.

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Wing coasters are great for re-rides, both because they're smooth and not ultra intense but also to test all of the seats to see how they are all different. I've only ridden Wild Eagle which was great (but not a top ten coaster) and it was designed to encourage riders to try all of the different points of the train. Coasters that encourage re-rides are ideal for Return on Investment.

 

Gatekeeper looks like it will be a little more intense than Eagle. When I rode Dollywood's "Barnstormer" Screaming Swing it reached the peak and then slowed down immediately. Cedar Point had theirs run a couple swings at peak height.

 

I think the width of the trains probably limits how intense the forces can get. It also limits the amount of "heartlining" the ride can do.

 

I hope Gatekeeper's air time hill is more than a mild float ...

 

Raptor is my favorite B&M inverted, it almost has airtime on the first drop and has a nice mix of elements. (Alpengeist, Afterburn, Flight Deck, 3 Batmen, Great Bear, Talon, Silver Bullet are the others I've been on).

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I can't wait until they add the Immelman turn-around since you don't see many B&Ms entering them from the top and the train seems to flow beautifully through it.

I don't mean to get all technical but a that's considered a Dive loop (opposite of an Immelman). According to CP's press release they call it a Inclined Dive Loop – a tight, 180-degree turnaround pushes riders through an overbanked turn and rockets them back towards the station.

Inclined Dive Loop, so would it technically be considered an inversion?

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I can't wait until they add the Immelman turn-around since you don't see many B&Ms entering them from the top and the train seems to flow beautifully through it.

I don't mean to get all technical but a that's considered a Dive loop (opposite of an Immelman). According to CP's press release they call it a Inclined Dive Loop – a tight, 180-degree turnaround pushes riders through an overbanked turn and rockets them back towards the station.

Inclined Dive Loop, so would it technically be considered an inversion?

If they count it as one on Hydra, then im certain this one will be called an inversion. Right after that turn around when it goes into the second "through the keyhole" inversion i watch the pov and it seems as if its a sort of straight away for a bit until the roll. I wonder if it will seem as long while onride as it does watching the animation. But then again animations dont always really show the rides true finish, either way this will be a nice ride.

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