Six Flags [FUN] Corporate Discussion Thread

[coasterbill]

I was disgusted reading that but don't have a twitter account so I didn't have a way to respond until now.

 

First of all, If you're at an amusement park booing a kid for ANY REASON then you are a terrible person. Period. End of story.

Is this (maybe) isolated incident even relevant to this thread? I don't know... some people would feel that it's a microcosm of the company as a whole and I won't necessarily disagree.

 

I feel like the Six Flags business model is to have terrible employees, terrible park atmosphere and terrible operations and add or remove things for no reason with no regard for themes, convenience or logic. In addition to that, they whore themselves out to anyone that is willing to plaster an ad on something in the park while they cut corners wherever possible knowing that as long as they have amazing coasters they can get away with it.

 

Six Flags as a whole is a frustrating company. Luckily Great Adventure is one of my home parks and while they're guilty of almost everything I mentioned they do have a good staff and try to run the rides efficiently for the most part. Some of that may be a result of the staff going above and beyond despite being horribly understaffed though. They have also adopted some new cost cutting measures like closing the water rides early for no reason (and not posting signs) and not filling the courtesy cups of water up more than 2/3 of the way which probably save them very little money and manage to piss a ton of people off (not the courtesy cup thing, that's a minor annoyance but they were turning people away from the log flume in droves because it was a hot, humid night when the line was an hour long when they cut it off).

 

Keep in mind those complaints were about (arguably) the best run park in the chain. Parks like Six Flags New England are exponentially worse. Cedar Fair vs Six Flags is like night and day... I won't even mention Herschend, Disney or Universal.

 

I'll reiterate that I don't think this kind of service is the reason for their major attendance drop because it's been like this for a long time. It may be getting worse but it's always been pretty bad. That being said it can't be helping their image.

[JJLehto]

^I'm not saying Cedar Fair is rude, I just think that they could improve their customer service. I might be a little biased though. Carowinds is my home park. I love it to death. And a majority (90%) of the ride ops and staff are pretty nice. But then there's that 10% that could do their jobs a little better.

 

I don't expect the ride ops to go above and beyond to be friendly, I just want enjoy my visit at the park.

 

 

I understand. I just hate how C.F. seems to be lumped in as a "not as bad" chain when they are 100X superior to S.F. In my mind it's insulting to compare them. As Coasterbill just said, Great Adventure is probably the best of them, and they are so dreadful I haven't even gone in 2 seasons...though that means missing El Toro, KK, Nitro and it's only 45 mins from me. I can't stand it that badly. It's more worth it to drive 2.5 hours to Hershey!

 

Anyway: I am sorry to hear what happened at Great America, truly awful and the fact it happened to a kid...we can brush it off as adults but that just is crushing for a child. Robb is a big name in the park industry, I seriously would not oppose writing to S.F. in large numbers and telling them how they've gone so very wrong. Get the other big guys involved, doubt it'll have much impact but worth a try?

[tarheel1231]

I wouldn't be surprised to hear if a larger person was booed out and had to do the walk of shame. Terrible service.

[Jew]

The people who make these decisions only care about ONE thing: $$$

 

So long as the investors are happy, no changes are going to be made. It will take 3-5 more years of the decline for the financial part to kick in, as cutting costs can only hide things for so long.

[coasterbill]

I'm just going to leave this here. Thanks to Boldikus for the first picture. Keep in mind that once again... Great Adventure has the best operations in the entire chain. I use the Skyride because it's one of the only rides where a picture can illustrate the throughput of a ride.

 

Six Flags Great Adventure's double Skyride with over twice as many cabins as Cedar Point's single Skyride.

 

Cedar Point

[tarheel1231]

Stories like these at Six Flags make me really appreciate those employees that are just begging to take my picture at a Cedar Fair park. I don't want to have my picture taken, but at least they are friendly about it. I have a new-found respect for picture-takers.

[coasterkid124]

I would have to agree that Six Flags needs to turn around their attitude. I'm glad that they released their evil clutch from Darien Lake when they did.

 

I had a similar incident with an employee about 8 years ago at Darien Lake. My nephew was tall enough to ride a Top Spin with a 55" requirement, but the op at Ride of Steel said he was too short for the 54" requirement. He literally pushed the height bar up so it was too big for my nephew to meet the requirement. There was no wristband policy or anything at the time, so he didn't get to ride.

 

But we got the last laugh when Six Flags sold the park at the end of the season.

 

Now back on topic, guys like Reid-Anderson only care about the money and building bigger, while their debt rises too. Then they cry in the corner and jack up parking costs another $20. These are pathetic men with about as good of customer service skills to run a Big Boy drive-thru. The park needs people like the folks at Herschend. They have clean, friendly parks that don't care only about the money.

[Lightnin Loops]

I'm just going to leave this here. Thanks to Boldikus for the first picture. Keep in mind that once again... Great Adventure has the best operations in the entire chain. I use the Skyride because it's one of the only rides where a picture can illustrate the throughput of a ride.

 

Six Flags Great Adventure's double Skyride with over twice as many cabins as Cedar Point's single Skyride.

 

Cedar Point

 

The one thing I find strange with SFGadv skyride lately is; my last like 10 visits the past month, they have only been using 1 side of the skyride, and the que in the middle of the day was full on most of the visits. At the beginning of the season when the park was empty, they were running both side of the skyride, go figure. Just you normal SF operations. CLUELESS

[tarheel1231]

If theme parks were restaurants:

 

Herschel = Chick Fil-A (Even though some of the things Mr. Truett Cathy said are pretty bad, these restaurants have good service).

 

Cedar Fair = Taco Bell (They may not have a very good selection, but they do know customer service).

 

Six Flags = Mall Food Court (There may be a few good places, but overall, it's dirty, and the workers treat you like crap).

[SteveStL]

I think SF should break up in Regions - West, Central and East. Each region can focus on a smaller amount of parks each with its own needs (SFMM has different needs then SFSTL, etc). Then I believe you may see some positive results.

[coasterkid124]

I think SF should break up in Regions - West, Central and East. Each region can focus on a smaller amount of parks each with its own needs (SFMM has different needs then SFSTL, etc). Then I believe you may see some positive results.

 

I think that this is a good idea, as it will put a larger magnifying glass on the little things. But for this to work, new people will need to still be put in charge.

[Rollercoaster Rider]

I wouldn't mind keeping Jim Reid Anderson and CFO to make sure the company stays financially better and getting a new CEO to decide attractions (I originally thought Jack Falfas aka Mr. Knott's Berry Farm or the dude that was groomed to replace Kinzel) and park operations.

[booink]

That's a pretty interessing thread ! I have to say that SteveSTL's idea sounds like a very good one to me, because focusing on a little number of parks would greatly improve the park's quality in general (in my opinion). Of course I'm extremely biased because those are the two parks closest to me, but La Ronde and the Great Escape are not really treated equally in comparison to, let's say, Great America or Magic Mountain... Of course those parks don't have the same needs at all, so dividing the chain into regions would help to solve that problem, because less parks to focus on must bring better, reflected decisions.

 

Also, I agree that customer service could really be better. Ironically, I used to think La Ronde had one of the worst in the chain, but I saw a slight improvement this year. I don't know if it's a new person in the park's administration or something else, but the employees seems less depressed about their jobs then they did on previous years.

Seeing stories like Robb's and Kristen's is sad, and I think that, for example, if they have to deny someone from a ride they could do it in a diplomatic way instead of laughing at the kids. The ride opps could also use a bit more of their judgement; if a kid has been on 2-3 rides with the same height restriction and was allowed to ride, than I guess that kid is fine for riding any ride with that "X" height restriction, am I right ?

[Geauga Dog]

Sad to read what happened to Robb and KT at SFGAm. I've always thought that the park was one of the better operated parks in the chain but it seems ever since the incident on NTAG there has been change in the parks chain wide just based on the many trip reports I've read on TPR.

 

I don't think the problem is with the park presidents since they have to answer to corporate but with the direction the chain is going in it may be in its best interest that a shakeup needs to be done at the top level.

 

Is Jay Thomas still a part of the organization? Many people had nothing but good things to say about his tenure at SFMM and I wonder if some would think he'd make a good CEO of the company.

[adamd]

Funny that this article came out later today:

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jim-hill/cedar-fair-ceo-matt-ouime_b_5628758.html?utm_hp_ref=tw

[WFChris]

Just because it's what I do here, I just want to mention that Six Flags Mexico operates efficiently, park staff is awesome, clientele is polite, and the prices are fair. I wonder how they are able to operate this well under the same banner that is the mess we deal with stateside.

 

Perhaps the whole chain needs to take a serious look at how things are run south of the border. Or perhaps they have...and that's why they were rewarded with Medusa, possibly the best new coaster in North America in 2014.

[gecomet92]

I think people are bashing Jim Reid Anderson unfairly. After SFI went bankrupt He was brought in for one reason and one reason only. That is to turn the company around and help them get out of bankruptcy. As far as I see the company is not bankrupt and they are posting strong revune numbers. But corporate really has nothing to do with customer service. What corporate is suppose to do is set the park up with opportunists for the park to do well in terms of capitol investment. What I agree with is ridding the park presidents. Employee training is in their hands. The park president can set the tone of the employees and in tern the park. They obviously haven't done good enough training employees.

[scottiemon]

Here is also something to remember....

People are more likely to post negative things than positive things. Now, I am not a fanboi...but I will share this:

I have a gold membership at SFMM. I have had nothing but positive experiences. I have only been gold for this year, but I have always had a good time, friendly experiences with operators, and "decent" food. Yes, they could do better. But they are sure a lot better than they were years ago, the last time I went to the park with any regularity, and wrote them off.

Since things are improving (IMHO), I remain optimistic that this trend will continue.

[Woodie Warrior]

I honestly think if corporate gave more freedom to each park the chain might improve. For example, I've heard from employees who post in the SFSTL thread that Dave (the park president) has some great ideas that could definitely improve the overall experience (such as shortening long queues, moving the Moon Cars and giving them a longer track, and bringing a few family flats into the park). However from what I hear, corporate makes most of the financial decisions and that is why some of these small improvements never become a reality.

[Jew]

I think people are bashing Jim Reid Anderson unfairly. After SFI went bankrupt He was brought in for one reason and one reason only. That is to turn the company around and help them get out of bankruptcy. As far as I see the company is not bankrupt and they are posting strong revune numbers. But corporate really has nothing to do with customer service. What corporate is suppose to do is set the park up with opportunists for the park to do well in terms of capitol investment. What I agree with is ridding the park presidents. Employee training is in their hands. The park president can set the tone of the employees and in tern the park. They obviously haven't done good enough training employees.

 

Not true at all. Corporate sets the foundation for the culture, operational guidelines, service standards, etc. Park level management then takes that foundation and takes ownership of it in their own ways.

 

I could imagine a Six Flags park president walking into Jim Reid Anderson's office and asking "hey Jim, I'd like to raise the minimum age for ride operators to 18, pay them more than minimum wage, and actually offer them some real benefits like paid sick days/vacation/etc. That will allow us to be more selective in our hiring and get our team members to be engaged and passionate about what they do."

[chargersmichael]

I feel like that if Six Flags was better at trying to get its new additions opened earlier like in April and May...there will be a better result for attendance.

[alilstronger]

The structure needs to come from upper management. We have seen time and time again how on Undercover Boss they go into their own company and see that their own procedures and policies are not being enforced. Management needs to be more vigilant about being out and about within their respective companies to make sure rules are being followed and customers are being treated correctly. Many many many times I have been to Six Flags parks and ride employees are having personal conversations about who they are dating, who they think is hot, who is arguing with who, saying personal jokes over the loud speaker and so forth. There are SOME that can be amazing. At times El Toro's staff can really be on and get the trains out of the station ASAP.

 

Six Flags has people applying all the time. It is not like they do not have the ability to get amazing employees. If places like Dollywood, Hersheypark, Disney, Knoebels, and so forth can hire employees that actually want to work there and treat the customers well, then so can Six Flags. They reply to heavily on the fact that when you work there you can go to the park for free. All of the advertising I see around the parks relies on that. I think this should not be the only selling point. I think they should slow down the build up of the parks and start working on the over all experience.

 

There are reasons parks like Dollywood, Hersheypark, Knoebels, Disney, Universal, Holiday World, and so forth can bring in the numbers without having to put in a brand new multi million dollar attraction every year. They start with treating their employees with respect with then trickles down to how the employees treat guest. Also they put a lot of focus on who they hire. When I was at Dollywood I mostly saw older employees not 95% high school and college aged kids who are there just for a paycheck.

 

Six Flags as a company gives us some amazing rides but they need to start realizing the whole experience is not about the rides and that there is so much more. I understand the philosophy of you have to spend money to make money. I agree with that. However, there are ways to spend money that do not include a new multi million dollar coaster or simply shifting rides around to pull in guest.

[gecomet92]

I feel like that if Six Flags was better at trying to get its new additions opened earlier like in April and May...there will be a better result for attendance.

This has always been my argument with SF since new management took over. They choose to open rides later than the park. It really pisses me off when I see radio ad's that say "Come back later for New England Sky Screamer." Thats like a huge slap in the face for people who aren't season pass holders. Look at it this way you have a family of 4 and you don't have season passes and you go to the park once a year. Imagine if they decide to go before they opened a ride, would you be mad? Not everyone is season pass holders and not everyone can just "come back"

 

Six flags in their Ignorance think that opening rides later in the season is just going to make people simply come back later in the season and ride it. But in reality they are just hurting themselves in the early season. People aren't going to simply buy another admission ticket after the rides open, they are just going to wait to visit until after that ride opens which can sometimes be weeks or months after the park opens.

 

The thing that really makes me mad is when you go in the early season before the said new ride opens and the ride looks 100% completed. Like at TGE 2 years ago they opened a larson flying scooters 3 weeks after the park opened. That ride is one of the most simple flat rides out there and on opening day it was 100% completed but the ride area was plastered with signs saying "opening June 3rd or whatever the date was" They even posted a video on FB of the ride testing with people on it weeks before opening.

[SteveStL]

Split it into Regions and re-organize groups of leadership to assess and management Parks within their region. I think Six Flags is too large for one entity (Corporate) to do the job right. The needs and regional cultures of each park are too large and diverse to be handled by one governing body. Create smaller groups of leadership to focus and manage smaller groups of regional parks. Makes sense to me.

[neil009]

It is not like they do not have the ability to get amazing employees. If places like Dollywood, Hersheypark, Disney, Knoebels, and so forth can hire employees that actually want to work there and treat the customers well, then so can Six Flags.

 

 

Hersheypark? Like, the Hersheypark that's in Hershey Pennsylvania? That Hersheypark? Huh.

 

Knoebels though, that I agree with. Even though I'm sure the median age of its employees is much higher than the average corporate park, even among the younger ops there's a consistent air of professionalism I don't see most other places. I would guess it's not just a matter of training or hiring standards, it's a sense of pride in your workplace and a solid understanding of what's expected of you (and of the consequences for not living up to those expectations) that has to start at the very highest level of management. An atmosphere of not caring is contagious, no matter who you've got working there.