Walt Disney World Epcot Discussion Thread

[coasterfreak101]

Overall, I'm SURE they haven't gotten to this point without heavily discussing "How to mitigate people trying to sneak past the system."

 

You make it an all-in-one card/pass. You need it to enter any building within the park (shows/rides/restaurants/restrooms) or the red warning lights go off. Problem solved.

 

I highly doubt that. All that does is create an inconvenience for guests, who now have to pull their tickets out every time they want to do something. And families with three kids running around to find the closest bathroom aren't going to go for that.

 

Honestly, I think it's going to work exactly like how the self-checkout machines at a (at least my) grocery store work - there's an attendant monitoring each set of four machines or so, and it's up to them to keep tabs on everyone. The self-checkouts I worked at had a central station that kept track of everyone's orders. So you give an employee an iPad that's linked to their set of machines and you're good.

[robbalvey]

Overall, I'm SURE they haven't gotten to this point without heavily discussing "How to mitigate people trying to sneak past the system."

 

You make it an all-in-one card/pass. You need it to enter any building within the park (shows/rides/restaurants/restrooms) or the red warning lights go off. Problem solved.

 

I highly doubt that. All that does is create an inconvenience for guests, who now have to pull their tickets out every time they want to do something. And families with three kids running around to find the closest bathroom aren't going to go for that

I don't think you quite understand how RFID works. In theory, you wouldn't have to pull your card out for anything. And if/when you do, the transaction is by far quicker and easier.

 

Have you ever watched in most train/subway stations in the world, when people "tap their wallet" against the RFID system to gain very quick entry into the station? That's exactly what this is. Watch:

 

Do you know how something like the "SunPass" or any other toll booth system that you put in your car that automatically clicks you through when you drive through the toll? That's exactly what this is.

 

And if it's tuned correctly, you could, in theory, just need to "walk up" to a fastpass machine, and it automatically prints you a fastpass if you have your ticket in your pocket. or you could just simply tap your wallet against the machine without having to insert any tickets at all.

 

Again, I don't think many of you are thinking the "bigger picture" in this system. It goes well beyond just having a system for park entry. Literally, that's where this system "starts" and the potential for it is so much more.

[CoasterGuy06]

Have you ever watched in most train/subway stations in the world, when people "tap their wallet" against the RFID system to gain very quick entry into the station? That's exactly what this is.

 

When I lived in a dorm our student IDs worked like this in order to unlock the dorm door. It always cracked me up when guys that were tall enough would just walk up to the scanner and swipe their butts across the scanner

[coasterfreak101]

^^No, I completely understand. I didn't realize that you could use them from your pockets. I always assumed that it was different technology in my EZ-Pass than is in these newer cards and such. And we have RFID chips in our SmarTrip cards for the DC Metro, but you still have to pull them out to use them. Same with the Exxon Tiger cards and things like that.

 

And I completely understand that this is going to be widespread - it amazes me that we'll be able to walk in to a park with our ticket, and use that ticket at registers and to get FastPasses and so forth. I was just saying that the idea of having to tap it to a machine every time I want to walk in to a building is excessive, and if they don't pick up from your pocket, inconvenient. The whole point of my post was really just to offer another way for them to keep people from skipping the entrance machines.

[WFChris]

This is definitely a good step for Disney, especially with future FP integration and possibly a credit card link (or at least a way to preload it like a gift card). The current FP system is seeming more and more dated as I see RFID systems expand elsewhere. I find myself 'swiping' less and less, and 'tapping' a heck of a lot more.

 

This system will definitely require a staff presence though, as a red mickey is hardly going to stop somebody from coming in. They use the RFID system on the LA Metro rail unsupervised, and I can assure you the system is losing millions on people not tapping when they go through the gate. They are still issuing paper tickets AND tap, and if you have a paper ticket you do nothing...you just walk through the gate. If you have tap, you tap and go, but you REALLY don't have to.

 

It will be very exciting seeing what Disney's take on the whole system will be and how it will affect crowd management over time!

[Chroniq]

Since some people may have missed this- Once the system is fully implemented it won't even be a ticket. You'll wear a (rfid embedded) wristband to interact with basically every facet of theme park or hotel. So, Larry actually makes a great point (once the infrastructure is completed).

[robbalvey]

^ From what I understand, the wristband is more of an upcharge, and something you can customize. Much like those lanyard holders, etc. I fully expect to see people with limited edition wristbands, customized ones, etc, etc.....

[Chroniq]

^Robb, I've heard that wristbands will be the default ticket media, but you'll be able to buy customized/limited edition/duffy versions if you wish..The wristband thing is really good business for Disney as it makes people a lot more comfortable with using their rfid tag to do things like purchase goods or use photopass (the thinking is that if it is on your wrist you can't lose it) . This method also ensures the chips will have beter "line of sight" for the readers once it's implemented on rides or entryways.

 

 

Chris "I could be completely wrong" Connolly

[kennywood_racer]

This sounds like it will be a great addition.

 

My only question after my trip to WDW, is how will this work with the dining plans?

[sfga2008]

This sounds like it will be a great addition.

 

My only question after my trip to WDW, is how will this work with the dining plans?

 

I doubt the fundamentals of the program would change, only that to deduct from your dining plan the RFID on your Key to the World would be used instead of a physical scan/swipe.

 

^Robb, I've heard that wristbands will be the default ticket media, but you'll be able to buy customized/limited edition/duffy versions if you wish..The wristband thing is really good business for Disney as it makes people a lot more comfortable with using their rfid tag to do things like purchase goods or use photopass (the thinking is that if it is on your wrist you can't lose it) . This method also ensures the chips will have beter "line of sight" for the readers once it's implemented on rides or entryways.

 

 

Chris "I could be completely wrong" Connolly

 

It would be way to early for Disney to completely change access media types overnight. AFAIK wristbands have not even been used in a public test. I would imagine a mix of both in the future would be the most likely scenario as Robb suggested. Wristbands would be an attractive upcharge for their convenience. Renderings on the internet offer photos that showed more "stylish" wristbands that appeared to be removable and more durable than the plastic ones used by Great Wolf Lodge.

 

On a side note, Cast Member ID's Now have RFID in them allowing access to some office door's and more recently Epcot's back stage entrance requires you to tap your ID to gain access. It's use is not wide spread yet but is gaining prominence in backstage areas as well.

[AmyUD06]

My initial thought with this was 'How Many Jobs are going to get cut as the result of this thing?' Its like when the Indy Toll Roads installed the ATM-like Machines to collect the tolls - it saves money, but costs a lot of humans their jobs.

 

I'm glad I'm not the only one who had this thought. Initially, as seen, the staffing levels probably won't change much...but once they get the kinks worked out of the system there will be a lot of positions that no longer have a use.

 

Plus, I know the technology has gotten a lot cheaper, but there is no way that RFIDs are cheaper than paper or plastic cardstock. Guess Disney isn't feeling the crunch like almost every other player in the industry, or they're counting on the offset from decreased labor costs.

[jray21]

^While this may affect a few jobs here and there, I would not be surprised if the installation of readers and other networking create a few jobs as well. The installation alone of card readers at food locations, shops, and other places will surely need some addition labor, assuming the system includes those items. Just my opinion, but I also don't think Disney is looking so much at the decrease in labor hours as a major benefit as much as the increase in spending by guests (easier to pay with a card/wristband versus cash), and the massive marketing data they can tap into.

 

I absolutely loved the Suica cards in Japan. They are so easy to use, and very convenient. If anyone will do it right, it's Disney. Really excited to see how much they expand this.

 

It will be interesting how they decide to keep unauthorized people out. The one small benefit to the current system is that they automatically lock after each guest and can help prevent, or slow down, a massive rush of the gates, were that ever to occur(the Hippo Preservation Society Occupy Protests come to mind ). I'm sure Disney has a plan in place, it will just be interesting to see how it works (of course, it may be a special security process that they don't want to get out). I am really excited for this.

 

Another major hidden advantage is the massive amount of data Disney will able to make the parks better with. While some people may not like that they may be able to track everything you do, I think it's good because it will probably mean special offers that I would actually be interested in! Also, they would easily be able to see where people go, and at what times, and could create a better flow through the park, better entertainment schedules, etc. They could also easily link it to an app or phone and give you instant specials or suggestions. For example, lets say your at Downtown Disney before La Nouba starts and they have some empty seats. They could see you are there, and text you a special price. Some of these things are currently possible, but RFID really makes it easier and more exact. Of course I have absolutely no clue how far it will go, but those are just a few of the possibilities. Knowing Disney, I expect it to be a major game changer as things are added and the system is expanded.

[jonnyfingers]

As someone who deals with RFID everyday I'm delighted to see it in use at Epcot. There are huge pros, if it's done right you wont even have to retrieve your ticket from your pocket for the reader to be able to read the tag. A good example is any running event where all the runners have a chip on their ankle and just have to run over a reader mat to be scanned. It does seem like Disney, by going with tag readers that look like those at subway stations, are not going down this route. I'm not sure how sensitive these readers are but if they're like similar ones I've seen you'll have to be within a foot at least for the tag to read. Maybe this will be improved on in the future.

 

Another pro is what can be done with a tag assigned to a person. The tag itself will just hold an ID number that will be in a database. When the tag reads the ID it looks up that record in the database and the system can then access whatever information is stored there. It's what's in that database that makes it so powerful. The possibilities are endless. It could hold personal information, medical information, it could (and looks like it will be) linked to a debit/credit card, or Disney credit account, that you could use to pay for items. You can add permissions to access certain areas/doors. It could be used with the fastpass system. Really anything about yourself could be linked to your account, and your RFID tag will give the system access to that.

 

For the park they could also track people as they walk through the park. It could be used to calculate real-time, accurate queue times, it could be used for metrics to measure the popularity of rides and areas of the park? It could log all the meals being eaten by people to work out what's popular/unpopular.

 

If you go down the route of a personalised account for each person attending the park the possibilities really are endless. For now I could see the personalised approach being taken only for those with annual passes. The only think you'd need would be enough tags and enough readers to read those tags. But the beauty for regular park-goers is that you can re-use the RFID tags. So they could buy a ticket "tag", it gets written with their unique ID number, that ID number has certain data assigned to it on a database such as park access permisions, the park-goer uses the tag all day to do whatever they can do with it. And as they leave the park they just put that tag in a bin for used tags and they're used again the next day.

 

As for the pros, the main one is the difficulty restricting entry for those who don't have an RFID tag, or have an expired ticket. The beauty of RFID means that you can just walk over or near a tag reader and it scans you. However it usually uses this scan to open a locked door. If you don't have permission you don't get in. How will Disney police this if there is nothing to stop someone just walking through?

 

Also if Disney go down the personalised route it brings up security concerns. People may not be comfortable with having their information stored, or by getting tracked as they walk through the park. Also if you bring in financial interactions using your tag you would need to tie it in with some sort of personalised pin to avoid fraud. It would be easy for someone to steal someones ticket and use that to pay for things. It would also be possible to make your own tags, if you knew what needed to be programmed on it, so this would have to be in some sort of secure format.

 

But for me the pros far outweigh the cons and I can't wait to make a trip back to Epcot in the future if this system is still in place.

[Garet]

Overall, I'm SURE they haven't gotten to this point without heavily discussing "How to mitigate people trying to sneak past the system."

 

You make it an all-in-one card/pass. You need it to enter any building within the park (shows/rides/restaurants/restrooms) or the red warning lights go off. Problem solved.

 

I have to agree, wristbands fine but tickets can be an issue, i have a season pass for both Lotte World and Everland and you have to show it at every ride since they also offer entry only passes for people who don't want to ride... not so bad when the season passes are on lanyards but the amount of times people don't realise or forget between rides and have to spend 2 minutes searching their pockets and wallets before they can enter each queue/show does hold up the lines a bit.

[Swimace]

I was at Epcot yesterday and thought it was really cool! I didn't use them for my entry, but my friend had a normal park ticket and he got in the park really quickly. Hopefully we'll see this rfid system become integrated with the fastpass system and eventually with the attractions themselves. I hate how slow some people are at getting through the normal turnstiles, so I thought this was a cool way to get people into the park faster.

[Hilltopper39]

This seems like a great idea and the whole RFID technology in general certainly has lots of possibility. I've always found Disney Parks to be overall absolutely the most efficient in the industry when it comes to front entrance gate operations (even without the RFID), but other parks in Orlando tend to struggle in that area compared to Disney. SeaWorld and Busch Gardens specifically always seem to have a very slow entrance process even with a small crowd, wit ha large crowd I've waited up to half an hour to get through the gate before. It will be interesting to see if this technology take off across the industry (after Disney has mastered it of course).

[BeemerBoy]

Seems like the only thing slowing you down now is the time it takes you to stop and comment on those hideous cast member shirts. Apparently, the future will never include good fashion sense.

[PriestofSyrinx]

I bet there will be an app for that soon...

 

RFID/NFC is the Future. And its good show to have it in Epcot (with all of that future theme). Nice job TDO. Im actually really excited that I just got accepted to do Main Entrance Operations for the College Program. Hopefully I'll work with this some!

 

Nick "Loves RFID/NFC because his Nexus S has it" Wells.

[Sir Clinksalot]

I have a question ... and forgive me if this has already been brought up (but I didn't see it):

 

If they were giving current people who have a Non-RFID pass a sticker with the RFID in it, how are they indicating when the pass is expired? Was there some kind of thing set up where they were putting in this information?

 

The way it worked before, when you scanned the pass it indicated it's expiration (whether it was an AP or Parkhopper). I saw that they issued new AP's, just wondering what the procedure was for Parkhoppers.

 

Other than that, I'm excited for the future of this technology. Hell, even something like the "Photopass Scanner" on Test Track, and not having to even worry about that but being able to pull up on-ride pictures for all rides after your trip using your ticket. Just having the RFID scanned on your person while on the ride and indicating when you rode, etc.

[SharkTums]

^They scanned your ticket/pass before applying the sticker which I'm sure got all the information squared away.

 

We were an awesome group for them as between all of us we had:

 

- Non-expiring park hopper ticket

- Existing Annual Pass ticket

- Vouchers to get new annual passes

 

So we got to see a lot of the aspects of the new system. The poor woman printing out our new passes was having trouble with the ticket stock jamming the existing machines. Most likely due to the new thicker tickets. It was all fascinating.

[RoCo]

This is very, very cool and it's no surprise that Disney is on the forefront of rolling out this kind of technology.

 

Does some of it freak me out a tiny bit? Yes. How many years from now before we're offered the chance to have an RFID chip implanted under our skin?

 

Still, until then, I'm on board, and really, this gets us one step closer to a cash-less society, too, which will be awesome.

[eddytheviper]

How many years from now before we're offered the chance to have an RFID chip implanted under our skin?

 

I'm... pretty sure there was a news article about some guy having one already under his skin ?

If I recall he was to do with the team inventing it or something, can't find it for the life of me, I just remember it was scanned and it had his blood type and name come up, kinda like one of those chips you put in pets...

 

Anyway, back on track it's all just a fascinating concept, can see some real potential here.

Will also wait to see if they use NFC technology at parks when it becomes more widespread, the whole thing could be brilliant if it's used to it's full potential!

[ernierocker]

Will be interested to see how this develops in the future. And if it can make it easier and faster to get into the Disney parks, I am all for it!

[Chroniq]

Will also wait to see if they use NFC technology at parks when it becomes more widespread, the whole thing could be brilliant if it's used to it's full potential!

 

Since the RFID tags CAN be tied to a payment method, Disney has little reason to implement NFC. For those not familiar, NFC is the technology now being rolled out in certain smart phones (the new google phone has it) as a way to pay for an item using your cellphone. Since NFC prevents Disney from tracking guests locations, spending habits and actions like their proprietary RFID system will be able to, there is little benefit to Disney to push forward quickly with this tech. Of note- currently credit card processors are also charging a premium to process NFC transactions compared to traditional swipes which another deterrent against it .

 

FWIW. Yesterday I said that wristbands will be the default ticketing media in the future. I messed this up. RFID wristsbands will be the default (and free) ticket media for guests staying on property (replacing the "keys to the kingdom")...All other guests will be able to purchase wristsbands if they choose. As previously mentioned, custom/personalized wrist bands will be available to purchase for anyone who wishes to do so.. This rollout and the retrofitting of hotel rooms to support RFID enabled locks is expected to be finished by January 2013.

[ginzo]

I love the idea of an RFID wristband version of the Key to the World. Fumbling around my zippered pockets for park tickets, Fast Passes, credit cards, etc isn't fun. Imagine going all around WDW with just a camera and state ID in your pocket. Awesome.