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Dollywood Discussion Thread

P. 791: Big Bear Mountain family coaster announced for 2023!

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19 hours ago, prozach626 said:

Sir... I think you've had too much cinnamon bread. You're drunk.

Yes, I suppose suggesting that replacing Lighting Rod with a more reliable coaster (eventually) is a completely drunken & insane idea.

*confused*

 

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7 hours ago, tndank said:

Twisted Timbers and LR use the same trains.  They are friendly folks for the most part and will try to help get you verified.  

Cool. I fit on TT a few weeks ago but it was tight. 

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5 hours ago, DollyWould said:

Yes, I suppose suggesting that replacing Lighting Rod with a more reliable coaster (eventually) is a completely drunken & insane idea.

*confused*

 

You said a B&M Hyprer by 2025. That would mean starting now, probably start clearing next year.

They need to fix Lightning Rod to better handle the heat.
I can't get https://www.dollywoodwaittimes.com/ to load very fast, but I recall March - May was pretty good, then things started getting hot.
 

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That is the stupidest excuse-valid or not- that a coaster can’t run when it’s hot. Kings Island has a LIM launched outdoor coaster that pretty much run all day, every day, 3 trains. I know. It’s not wood, it’s not up a hill (it’s a launch straight into a climbing helix) but seriously? “We can effectively run this because it’s hot…in the South… in the summer”? Dollywood got screwed by RMC on this deal. 

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^  RMC didn't design the launch motors IIRC.  Meanwhile SFOT is closing Mr Freeze every day from 2p to 8p due to Texas' godawful electric grid.  Long story short, maybe electromagnetic launches are a bad idea these days?  Let's go back to flywheels.

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3 hours ago, prozach626 said:

I would have thought all of that new track would have fixed everything.

Fixed a different issue. Track not handling the forces and excessive wear/maintenance on the trains.

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19 hours ago, KBrylczyk said:

^  RMC didn't design the launch motors IIRC. 

As I recall it was Velocity Magnetics, and their first coaster launch system.
https://www.velocitymagnetics.com/no-brakes-on-growth-at-velocity-magnetics/

Their Projects page list 4 coasters. 3 of them are braking systems. LR is the only launch.
https://projects.velocitymagnetics.com/

There was something else about the system too.  I think it was using a storage system because getting enough power to directly drive the launch in to the park was problematic.

The description for their LR video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FDJBWQnrfs mentions it.

[quote]This launch draws approximately 2.5 megawatts over a 5 second period of time from our ION-Vault system which re-charges every 100 seconds, and does this approximately 40,000 times per year with no maintenance to the ION-Vault system over the past four (4) years of operation.[/quote]


Interestingly (or is it telling?) there is no link to info on the ION-Vault or the Ion Energy™ Launch System on their site.
The ION Energy site https://www.ionenergyinc.com/ doesn't mention it either.

 

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1 hour ago, jarmor said:

So a poorly engineered coaster with a faulty launch system. . .

Seems the forces in some areas were higher than modeling showed. 
Don't think anyone has ever called RMC a company with poor engineering.
This was new territory, and lots of lessons learned.


I wouldn't call the system faulty, just not reliable in the environment.
Like a sports car. Again, new territory. Pushing a system well beyond previous limits. This was the first, and so far only VM launched coaster.


LR's issues are minor compared to some military projects I've been involved with.

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Let me preface, I love RMC coasters. 

Now,

What was the new territory?  All of their coasters have forces, negative and positive so what is so new about this one?  They had already did wood on wood, steel on wood, steel on steel so what was the new territory they faced with Lightning Rod?

 

If something is not reliable, it has faults.  If it has faults, it's faulty.

fault·y

/ˈfôltē/

Learn to pronounce

adjective

working badly or unreliably because of imperfections.

"a car with faulty brakes"

So, as I was saying. . . Poorly engineered coaster with a faulty launch system.

Who Knows Idk GIF

 

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19 minutes ago, jarmor said:

Let me preface, I love RMC coasters. 

Now,

What was the new territory? 

You love their rides then claim they are poorly engineered.

The speed and weight of the trains exceeded the stresses modeled. Hence the change from topper track to I-Box in the higher stress areas.

And they have changed the wheels several times (different materials) due to them wearing differently than in other uses.

Something about the ride is (was?) causing it to perform a lot different than expected and different than other coasters RMC designed/built.

I'm an Electrical Engineer, not Mechanical, so I have very limited understanding of the forces and modeling done.  But what I do understand and see with their rides says something is vastly different with LR and they have struggled to figure it out. Not sure they have solved or not, but the track change was a big change to deal with it.

 

19 minutes ago, jarmor said:

If something is not reliable, it has faults.  If it has faults, it's faulty.

So every jet the US military flies is faulty. From the F16 to to F35.
Seriously, go look at the issues the F16 had initially and how much was spent improving it.

They all have high maintenance requirements and generally poor availability rates.

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This is my final comment. . .

Where did I say EVERY RMC is poorly engineered?!?  We are discussing one coaster, Lightning Rod.  I don't know if you are aware but you are giving more and more reasons why this whole project was a clusterphuck from the beginning.  Not sure if you know, but none of what YOU said is normal for a coaster.  If something about THIS one coaster causes it to have far more downtime and have to run on a schedule, then it seems to be some engineering issues.  Not sure if you are an overly dedicated fanboy or what but when you have to take off trains so the ride can work properly then it's an issue.  When you have to retrack virtually the entire ride, and it still isn't working, there's an issue. when you hae to only run it during particular times of the day then there is an issue.

 

And honestly, WTF does a military jet has to do with a roller coaster?!?! Stick to the subject.  I am not going to dollywood for a ride on airforce 1 and the only jet I am interested in riding is Jetstream and Top gun - the jet coaster . . .

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24 minutes ago, jarmor said:

Where did I say EVERY RMC is poorly engineered?!? 

It's the same people engineering in the same way with the same tools for all RMC coasters.
So if one is poorly done they all are.  Right?

Or are you agreeing that something is different that lead to the usually great engineers to miss something?

 

24 minutes ago, jarmor said:

Not sure if you know, but none of what YOU said is normal for a coaster.  If something about THIS one coaster causes it to have far more downtime and have to run on a schedule, then it seems to be some engineering issues.

That's the point. Something is different. Doesn't mean it's poorly engineered, it means something new is affecting it. Something they have not had to account for in the past. And it seems they are still trying to figure it out.

That's sort of how progress happens. The stuff discovered on LR will influence future coasters and make them better because of the lessons learned. 

As an example I'm sure with the data they have now they could build it with topper track and it be fine. But it was cheaper/easier/faster to switch to I-Box than to redo the structure. They will use that data on the next one though and not have to use I-Box.

 

24 minutes ago, jarmor said:

  Not sure if you are an overly dedicated fanboy or what

I'm just someone that understands engineering and how unknown effects can wreak havoc on an otherwise straight forward design. Where the new one looks virtually identical to previous work and something small and seemingly insignificant causes all sort of unforeseen effects. 

I don't condemn the effort because of that.

And heaven forbid there are multiple issues, whether separate or connected (where item A works great, item B works great, together they don't work well).

Fixing the track issues (and likely the wheel maintenance) doesn't resolve all the other issues.
It doesn't change the cooling of the LSMs or make them work less hard in 95 degree heat.
It doesn't resolve nuisance trips of the sensors causing ride shut downs.
 

24 minutes ago, jarmor said:

And honestly, WTF does a military jet has to do with a roller coaster?!?!

Engineering and problematic systems that take years to resolve (and related to my day job)

And like LR they didn't just abandon the project because of those issues, they kept working on them despite calls from the public to give up.
 

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12 hours ago, CaptainUnknown said:

^As long as it's like the one on Tornado at Bakken, I'd be fine with that.

That's actually a chain system.  They were referring to Skyrush's lift that more or less throws the train over the hill.

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16 hours ago, grsupercity said:

Have Intamin install a cable lift and call it a day 

What would that take though? Where to put the equipment, how to route the cable, etc.
How fast can that run?

It's certainly change the character of the ride.

I just wish the companies involved were more open about the issues.
When it rolls out of the station, hits the first LSMs, and does an E-stop, why?
What triggered the stop? A sensor in a car? A track sensor? LSM issue?
 

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50 minutes ago, TEDodd said:

I just wish the companies involved were more open about the issues.
When it rolls out of the station, hits the first LSMs, and does an E-stop, why?
What triggered the stop? A sensor in a car? A track sensor? LSM issue?

Why on earth would they be open to anyone other than the park about the issues? 

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16 hours ago, KBrylczyk said:

^ Holy hell, guy, it was a joke.

A joke? People have been calling for that sort of change since 2016.

 

 

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It’s marketed as an RMC coaster at Dollywood. Therefore those two companies are the ones “responsible” in the public eyes. People need to quit giving RMC a pass. However you want to “spin” it as poorly engineered, experimental, similar to a fighter  jet… whatever. It fails as a reliable, decent capacity coaster when it cost millions of dollars. Great… they keep trying to fix the issue. Woo hoo. They failed to deliver, and they should keep trying, but to make like this altruistic “gift” that the just keep at it is idiocy. 

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