larrygator Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Gerstlauer's brochure for the trains confirm what we already knew: redundant hydraulic cylinders for redundancy. It doesn't matter what the brochure says and and doesn't matter whether the train actually came back into the station with the lap bar down. There will be people (legislators, safety advocates, general public, Six Flags lawyers) calling for a visible second restraint in the form of a seat belt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougMJr Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Pandemonium is OPEN Good news. Hopefully iRattler opens soon-ish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoasterLover Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 I wish that someone who actually knew how roller coasters work saw the incident, so we would have more of an idea of what really happened. Unfortunately, even if someone knew what to look for, I doubt they would have seen anything. Unless you were riding right next to her and watching her restraint the entire time, you wouldn't really be able to truly know if she just "slipped" out or if there was some sort of failure. Additionally, given the location and height of where the incident allegedly happened, it would be difficult for anyone off the ride, even if they were watching the train closely, to be able to say anything definitive. In previous incidents similar to this, investigators have always been able to find a root cause of the tragedy. Hopefully, this incident will be no different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterkid124 Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 I don't see why seatbelts weren't installed in the first place. I understand that it's for more airtime, but if I ran a theme park, I wouldn't want to take a chance. Accidents can happen at any time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmicha Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 ^Seatbelts are added for redundancy. The restraints already have built in redundancy. There really isn't an actual need for seatbelts on most coasters these days other than to appease lawyers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougMJr Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 ^Seatbelts are added for redundancy. The restraints already have built in redundancy. There really isn't an actual need for seatbelts on most coasters these days other than to appease lawyers. The only argument I can make for seatbelts is that they serve a redundancy purpose should the lap bar not be fastened properly. I know that the lab par has built in redundancy should there be a mechanical failure, but the seatbelt is there should the lab bar not be fastened properly. Point being, we have entered the "YOLO" age where people turn off their brains as soon as they enter the park. Combine that with ride-ops making minimum wage and that one "bad seed" who doesn't do his/her job properly and the seatbelt is your last line of defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArgoZ Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Maybe now, people will understand SkyRush. The restraints will tighten as the ride continues, thus sometimes making it a little uncomfortable near the end. But how can you safely deliver such violent (I think fun) airtime with out such an aggressive restaint system? I worry about the industry when this happens. Company's must still deliver airtime. I hate to think IRat would have to suffer any consequences due to the NTAG tragedy. It's such a great ride and I want to see more RMC transformations. There is so many wood coasters out there that could be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAL Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 I don't see why seatbelts weren't installed in the first place. I understand that it's for more airtime, but if I ran a theme park, I wouldn't want to take a chance. Accidents can happen at any time. Throughput. Capacity. Redundant seat belts reduce them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generic Name Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Saw this on CNN and with CNN being CNN I decided to turn here because people here know about coasters more than most of the people on CNN. In any case, it's a terrible tragedy that this happened, and my thoughts are with the family and the park. I don't know if this has been mentioned, but who will be conducting the investigation? The NTSB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry_Gumball Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 I don't see why seatbelts weren't installed in the first place. I understand that it's for more airtime, but if I ran a theme park, I wouldn't want to take a chance. Accidents can happen at any time. Throughput. Capacity. Redundant seat belts reduce them. Further adding to it...the ever-so-exciting Grizzly at CGA not only features a lapbar, but also has a normal seatbelt for each guest, plus a redundancy belt to ensure lapbar is closed. All of this equals out to long 5-minute dispatch times. Ironically, Grizzly is probably the last coaster I would think of that needs extra redundancy as one could probably safely ride that with probably simple buzz bars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterkid124 Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Saw this on CNN and with CNN being CNN I decided to turn here because people here know about coasters more than most of the people on CNN. In any case, it's a terrible tragedy that this happened, and my thoughts are with the family and the park. I don't know if this has been mentioned, but who will be conducting the investigation? The NTSB? I assume that based on past incidents, the investigation will be between the park, Arlington PD, and the state's amusement ride department. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singemfrc Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Further adding to it...the ever-so-exciting Grizzly at CGA not only features a lapbar, but also has a normal seatbelt for each guest, plus a redundancy belt to ensure lapbar is closed. All of this equals out to long 5-minute dispatch times. Ironically, Grizzly is probably the last coaster I would think of that needs extra redundancy as one could probably safely ride that with probably simple buzz bars.I feel like I could ride Grizzly sitting on the front of the train, (not that I would ever seriously attempt such a thing, Im such saying, it's a very tame ride). It just occurred to me that Gold Striker has redundant seat belts, which I think is interesting because it is a brand new ride only open for a couple months. Admittedly I don't know a whole lot about the mechanics of the restraints, so I'm curious given that it's a new ride if there's something different about Gold Striker's restraints where it would need the seat belt, or if it was just a choice that GCI or CGA made to add them regardless, it certainly adds a bit to the dispatch times on just about any coaster. Grizzly is an extreme example of slow dispatches though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krandor Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 As if the point didn't need to be proven on how much misinformation is out there, I went on tritter just now. Saw 2 different comments saying somebody fell off iron rattler at fiesta texas and my favorite was a tweet that went "It is called texas giant, but it isn't actually in texas" ugh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goatdan Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 I know that no one is listening to the wait suggestion, but a lot of the comments are strange. Not that I think anyone will listen to me but... Seat belts on coasters are almost always used not as a redundant safety system, but instead as an indicator on rides about if the rider can safely be restrained by the harness. I could cite examples, but I doubt anyone would read it. Instead, I propose parks wrap all riders in bubble wrap and bungee cord them into place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TyRush Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Does NTAG have 1 or 2 locking systems per seat? Skyrush has 2 hydraulic locking things per each seat. I assume one is back up for the other. And it has a seatbelt as well, which i have seen twice a larger guest couldnt buckle the belt to the bar and they made them exit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry_Gumball Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 I know that no one is listening to the wait suggestion, but a lot of the comments are strange. Not that I think anyone will listen to me but... Seat belts on coasters are almost always used not as a redundant safety system, but instead as an indicator on rides about if the rider can safely be restrained by the harness. I could cite examples, but I doubt anyone would read it. Which is why I pointed out Grizzly and it's infamous lapbar seatbelt. I know on the Morgan trains it's running, there's a little window on the bottom side of the train that changes color when lapbar is closed (single position, all or nothing kind of lock). The additional seatbelt is used to indicate that the restraints are fully down (and the length of the belt to the lapbar *just* makes it...honestly, it's a little tough to reach the buckle). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Geek Mojo Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 It's very sad to hear this news. But what makes it worse is hearing news report stuff that isn't true. It just feeds into peoples phobias about coasters because they make them sound like a death trap. Yeah, a person died, and it's horrible...but what about the thousands of other riders that rode it safely? If it was a heavy/large woman that was thrown out because her restraint wasn't secure then they need to make a change and stop letting heavy/large people on these rides. I've seen multiple people take the walk of shame because they couldn't squeeze into the restraint correctly and that's after the operators struggled to fasten them in. I say to hell with that. If you got to struggle, send them walking and don't even try to let them ride cause it may just save their life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon8899 Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 ^^Gerstlauer trains/cars mostly use LED that light green if the restraint is locked. Schwarzkopf used orange/green lights (Nessie) or a security circuit were the operator can only launch the ride if all lapbars are locked. But like riding a train or flying a plane accidents can always happen and we accept it every day as we use different kinds of transportation. Now it's time to wait until the investigation is done to determine: - if the rider was able to ride and behaving properly during fasten of the restraint and during the ride - if the attendant / operator checked the resteaints / systems correctly - if all maintenece schedules were fulfilled and spare parts were bought according to manufacturers specs - if a single part of the restraint failed due to a single production/material error - this would be the definition of a "tragic" accident - if the part failed due to wrong/faulty calculations during initial planning/construction - this would be a design error Most accidents here in the last years were due to single material or production faults - like a refurbished Schwarzkopf Monster III two years ago in Bremen were a gondola broke loose due to a welding error. This even happened despite our regular TÜV tests of the ride. After the ride was fixed it is again on the carnival circuit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopThrill182 Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 I, too, am frustrated by how willing the GP seems to be in swallowing up these ostensibly erroneous news stories. I've already had a few friends / family members, who know I'm an amusement park fan, ask me if I've heard how "the ride operator didn't check the woman's restraint" or that "the ride operator dispatched the train even when the woman said she wasn't secure." If this turns out to be a very careless error on the ride op's part, then fine. But for now, it seems an unwarranted insult to presume the park, park's employees, manufacturer, etc. so incompetent and / or careless. This guest's death is a certain tragedy, but hasty finger pointing seems to do more harm than good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generational Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Personally, I wouldn't put it past the Six Flags employees and attendants to just say that she was fastened to keep the lines and trains moving. People become awfully impatient when waiting on a larger person to be restrained into their seat. During the evening hours, a patron's patience can really wear thin after seven hours of waiting in line, dealing with other park patrons, among other factors. That can probably put a lot of stress on an attendant. But, that's no excuse for completely disregarding the regulations and letting that women ride. The woman who died could have spoken up as well. We'll never know what she was feeling leaving the station of NTAG, but, she must have been feeling some apprehension. Like one report from the Daily News says, everyone was chanting "three, three, three" as to imply that the lap bar needed to click three times. After only hearing one, and letting the ride continue, you have to think that the woman was most likely feeling apprehension to a certain extent. It would have been at that point she could have told the ride attendant to let her off, as she was concerned for her safety. Obviously, we'll never know what she was feeling, but I wouldn't blame Gerstlauer for the possible neglect of an attendant to do the job they are being paid to do. Even if you have the safest trains in the world, with the strictest regulations, it takes the negligence of one to cause calamity. Those are my two cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krandor Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 The woman who died could have spoken up as well. We'll never know what she was feeling leaving the station of NTAG, but, she must have been feeling some apprehension. Like one report from the Daily News says, everyone was chanting "three, three, three" as to imply that the lap bar needed to click three times. After only hearing one, and letting the ride continue, you have to think that the woman was most likely feeling apprehension to a certain extent. It would have been at that point she could have told the ride attendant to let her off, as she was concerned for her safety. But the restraints don't click so the whole story that everybody is feeding off of that she didn't feel secure is suspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanM64 Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Like one report from the Daily News says, everyone was chanting "three, three, three" as to imply that the lap bar needed to click three times. After only hearing one, and letting the ride continue, you have to think that the woman was most likely feeling apprehension to a certain extent. It would have been at that point she could have told the ride attendant to let her off, as she was concerned for her safety. What are you talking about!? It's already heen discussed for about 20 pages that NTAG has hydraulic locking restraints which don't click at all. I'm so tired of people just spreading information when they have no idea what they're talking about. Saying things like this are exactly why there is so much bad information being spread by the media. For (hopefully) the LAST time- STOP TALKING ABOUT CLICKS! THIS RIDE'S RESTRAINTS DON'T HAVE ANY "CLICKS!" /RANT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generational Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 The woman who died could have spoken up as well. We'll never know what she was feeling leaving the station of NTAG, but, she must have been feeling some apprehension. Like one report from the Daily News says, everyone was chanting "three, three, three" as to imply that the lap bar needed to click three times. After only hearing one, and letting the ride continue, you have to think that the woman was most likely feeling apprehension to a certain extent. It would have been at that point she could have told the ride attendant to let her off, as she was concerned for her safety. But the restraints don't click so the whole story that everybody is feeding off of that she didn't feel secure is suspect. Must of been unreliable reports that I read, which at this point, is probably true. Anything at this point is pure speculation. However, just like with what happened with S:ROS at New England, I wouldn't put it passed the attendants to be negligent when it comes to hefty riders. Nine times out of ten, the people who had trouble getting the restraints on properly would come back unscathed, but it takes that one time, and then the crap hits the proverbial fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jew Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Does NTAG have 1 or 2 locking systems per seat? Skyrush has 2 hydraulic locking things per each seat. I assume one is back up for the other. And it has a seatbelt as well, which i have seen twice a larger guest couldnt buckle the belt to the bar and they made them exit. ASTM standards dictate there has to be some sort of redundant mechanism, so there had to have been something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chadster Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Does NTAG have 1 or 2 locking systems per seat? Skyrush has 2 hydraulic locking things per each seat. I assume one is back up for the other. And it has a seatbelt as well, which i have seen twice a larger guest couldnt buckle the belt to the bar and they made them exit. ASTM standards dictate there has to be some sort of redundant mechanism, so there had to have been something. It uses two independent hydraulic cylinders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now