S&S Sansei Discussion Thread

[BeemerBoy]

Not to mention the fact that the first person to reply was Robb, who did not call BS on the report. I guess that fact went totally unnoticed too. If anyone was gonna dispute the claim, you'd think it would be the owner of the site, and probably one of the most respected people in here.

[ECZenith]

I'm not saying you're a liar when I say I'll believe it when I see it from them, it's such a big thing to happen, and at this point you never know what could happen. Even at the last minute, a string could be pulled to get S&S out of the water.

 

I don't associate post count with trust, and you are probably right about this... it's just such big news it's hard to believe. First Huss... now S&S, I'm telling you that 4D is CURSED man!!!

 

Oh, and BTW, welcome aboard.

[kennywood!007]

I hope this isn't true. Well I hope it turns out in a different positive way. I wanted to see more air powerd coasters (Hypersonic XLC). I've always wondered what other layouts the could make, maybe inversions.

[CoasterExpert13]

I believe ya pdon...it sure got quiet on here after his last post!

 

Anyhow...it would totally suck if S&S were sold or if bankrupcy happens. They have alot of really great rides. From what i've seen, their drop towers and various other rides have been selling like hotcakes. But hey, they could have already been down in the dumps with money problems...which would makes sense if Eejanaika and the rides they've sold recently don't help to save the company.

 

Hopefully, a miracle will happen...a sad site to see such a great company fall victim to money problems.

[pdon]

I'm not saying you're a liar when I say I'll believe it when I see it from them, it's such a big thing to happen, and at this point you never know what could happen. Even at the last minute, a string could be pulled to get S&S out of the water.

 

Oh, and BTW, welcome aboard.

 

Thank you.

 

As I said in the origonal post, the investors are looking for a buyer as well, but the reality is that Kathy has drawn up bankruptcy papers four times in the last week for the investors. This tells me that bankruptcy is a very real possibility to escape debt. They keep adding and subtracting assets from the paper work as they get info on possible payment from parks that have not yet paid for recent installations. If S&S fails it will be because they haven't been payed for recent rides that have not "functioned properly" according to the parks. Remember that Vekoma filed for bankruptcy as well earlier for similar reasons, so S&S may still operate, but only time will tell. Getting parks to pay for their rides is apparently a very difficult proposition.

 

I may find out more this weekend as I am going to see two more employees, but at this point, information is not coming from the investors, who will ultimately decide S&S's fate.

 

Someone mentioned earlier that Stan was at the Cedar Point ride opening. This all happened in the last two weeks, so that ride opening pre-dates the bankruptcy. Stan was removed as president as a result of whatever has led the company into potential bankruptcy.

[robbalvey]

Those of you who are "doubting" and calling this BS, where is your information that backs up your claim?

 

And yes, to whoever said "Robb was one of the first to respond and he didn't call it B.S." is totally correct.

 

I'm not confirming or denying, but if I thought it was really far-fetched based on who I talk to on a regular basis, and keep in mind I talk to people in the amusement business EVERY SINGLE DAY, I would have said something.

 

--Robb

[ECZenith]

Oh man, and I just noticed he's a pats fan too! Already off on a good note. Where is the respect people?

[Calaway Park]

OMG.. I seriousely pray to god this isnt true... I'll miss my double shots WAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH

[chaos]

Well, when Arrow went bankrupt, they became part of S&S. Hopefully now another company will do the same for S&S.

[Johnny Upsidedown]

Well, when Arrow went bankrupt, they became part of S&S. Hopefully now another company will do the same for S&S.

 

Add in CCI, wasnt it Dinn that backrupted CCI and became park of S&S.

 

It will be interesting to see if the company is sold or closed for good.

 

Maybe a buyout from emplyees, like the recent purchase of Larson Int. in Plainview Tx.

More on that here http://www.amusementtoday.com/

 

Jeff Novotny purchases Larson International Inc.(AUG 10, 2006) - Jeff Novotny, president and COO of Larson International Inc., has purchased the Plainview, Texas-based ride manufacturing company from founder Walter F. Larson. Novotny has been an engineer with Larson International, which manufactures the Super Loops, Star Dancer and Flying Scooters among other popular rides, for 18 years.

[Coasterphreak]

Looking back on what S&S has been doing, I'm honestly not that surprised. The company rose on the popularity of their drop towers, but sales of those dropped off after a few years because unlike roller coasters, each park only wants one tower/drop ride. The space shot rides have been plagued with problems, and many of their innovations (air launched coasters, and more recently the flyswatter and screamin squirrel) never took off. Yeah, they probably made a decent profit off Ej, but a company can't float on a single installation and the sale of Ej probably didn't even repay what they spent aquiring arrow, considering the fact that they don't seem to have built any other rides off the assets from that purchase. The screaming swings are slowly taking off, but they're not appearing to be the super hits that the drop towers were and from what pdon says they haven't been getting paid reliably for the rides they have put up.

[Carnage]

Hopefully it all works out. I'd really like to see more of their wood coasters. After riding Avalanche I'd like to see what they can do.

 

The problem about their drop towers is that nearly every park has one. There's not a whole lot of parks left that's going to be lining up to buy one.

[coaster1]

State Fair of Texas just bought a Screamin' Swing from S&S as well .. I think Chapter 11 would be a good thing IF they are hurting ... at least they can still operate under protection while getting things in line.

[pvcoasterguy]

Very interesting.

 

S&S's main product is the drop tower, and those aren't selling anymore. Dondopa and Hypersonic XLC are now incredibly rough, not to mention those rides were very costly. Screamin' Swing is probably the only real product they have right now, and I can't imagine they make a ton of money with those, and parks only want one set of them.

 

I can believe it.

[coasterdude5]

Wow, I guess this is a shock, I thought they were doing great with Eiajanka (sp?) , Powderkeg, and all the swings but I guess they just weren't pulling in enough money.

[TexTitan01]

I can believe it, but I dont want to...

 

Amusement Business are dropping like flies these days, and from what I can see, the only companies that seem to be keeping mainstream are the ones that have a good selection of thills (Intamin, Zamperla, Vekoma, Schwarz), or what they have delivers world class thrill (B&M, GCI, Gravity Group). but either way, they dont branch out on ideas unless they have a dam good understanding of what theyre undertaking, and if its a flop, either financially or publicly; they will pull enough profits by the end of the year to still break even.

 

Whats happening to S&S is too bad, yes; but I dont think they had enough fallback profits to recover from constructing EJ. I just think that you need to be able to have alot of legroom before you try to undertake a project of that magnitude.

 

If the 4D coaster really is cursed, good GOD I hope Intamin survives it.

[kingdanny]

I hope they don't go out of business. Rides like Powder Keg could straighten them out. I still can't beleive they pulled off another 4-D.

[asr]

I can believe it, but I dont want to...

 

Amusement Business are dropping like flies these days, and from what I can see, the only companies that seem to be keeping mainstream are the ones that have a good selection of thills (Intamin, Zamperla, Vekoma, Schwarz), or what they have delivers world class thrill (B&M, GCI, Gravity Group). but either way, they dont branch out on ideas unless they have a dam good understanding of what theyre undertaking, and if its a flop, either financially or publicly; they will pull enough profits by the end of the year to still break even.

 

Whats happening to S&S is too bad, yes; but I dont think they had enough fallback profits to recover from constructing EJ. I just think that you need to be able to have alot of legroom before you try to undertake a project of that magnitude.

 

If the 4D coaster really is cursed, good GOD I hope Intamin survives it.

 

I'm betting they will. The ball coaster I think will get off too a better start then the original 4D concept did. Unlike the 4D, it uses proven technology (LSM propulsion and Free-Spinning cars). All that has too be done is design the layout so it virtually impossible for the spinning too create forces that would be dangerous. That's where it gets tricky.

 

Of course, no one thought Huss or S&S would go under before it happened, did they

[haux]

So what would happen if this is true? Would S&S just go under and another company would supply parts to their rides?

 

I honestly don't see how this could happen. Tower rides sell every year, and their newest batch of rides seems to have done OK. A couple of Screaming Squirrels and some Sky Swatters sold. Did they expect to sell more?

[kenshinmac]

Honestly I was the first to post after Robb and I had no real doubts about this because S&S hasn't had any superstars since the tower... I think the company grew a bit too quickly what with the acquisition of Arrow and so on but it is likely someone else would have taken more of the tower sales if they hadn't grown as fast as they did...

 

I hope S&S isn't finished because the have some really crazy ideas and I think things like the Screaming Squirrel if tweaked would be ideal rides for small parks. I also think that they should look at smaller flats instead of the giants... I mean it seems like Huss and S&S are being done in by trying to focus on the giant flats instead of smaller ones that work for all parks... Giants just don't ever turn into blockbusters... There aren't enough parks that can use the giant flats...

 

Well all that said I honestly hope that they can keep running because the number of American amusement companies seems to pretty low. Beyond everything else I don't want people with crazy ideas to be out of work... These guys need to keep coming up with crazy stuff but maybe on a bit smaller scale...

 

People with connections please tell them our thoughts are with them and we wish them all the best... Hopefully things will work out well and they will be bringing us more insanity soon.

[CoasterFanatic]

The ball coaster I think will get off too a better start then the original 4D concept did

 

But where are the turns?

 

In response to the "BS" accusations, it makes a lot of sense why S&S would be hurting. After the CCI and Arrow buyouts, their debt load must be pretty high. If you aren't performing a super high level, then well ... you know what happens.

 

Put that and the fact that recent swing installations have been plagued with problems (which delays their payments and increases their costs) and you have a company that is waiting for the bottom to drop.

 

It makes perfect sense.

 

In the end, I would only suggest to the next owner (if it comes to that) that he does NOT even attempt to build another 4D.

[smallish]

It is a shame to see coaster and ride making companies go out of business. It seems like there's a lot of competition in that market these days.

[Guy T. Koepp]

This is indeed sad news. I hope that they are able to survive this. I know that there are lots of parks that love the S&S brand name.

 

It is a very competetive market though, IMHO it seems that the overhead of ride manufacturers is pretty high, with the profit margin fairly low. It would think that you need an incredibly high volume of sales, with reliable, non problematic attractions. Like the towers. I think that they may have bust their purse strings with the quick acquisition of Arrow and the wood coaster division. Combine that with the then lack of truly sucessfull product afterward leads to company wide collapse.

 

Just remember, the crazy contraptions that Stan has come up with can still be manufactured by others. So if it's the loss of the rides that you fear. I wouldn't worry too much. There is always someone out there that is able to tweak the idea to make it that much better and more reliable. Isn't that how B&M started?

 

Still, I hope for their sake that this is a temporary setback.

[DATman]

First Huss, now this...

[Jew]

I could definitely see S&S declaring bankruptcy and emerging as a scaled down company focusing on the manufacturing/sales of parts for all their rides (that's where the real money in this industry is!) instead of designing/fabricating rides...