The Knott's Berry Farm (KBF) Discussion Thread

[Nrthwnd]

^ Yes well, the next time I actually get a burger that actually resembles what they show on tv or in an ad,

including it's height, I'll think of Mrs. Knotts and that luscious "fantasy" food setting, heh.

[laqueefa]

it never looks like this!

 

 

The only time it's ever looked like this is when I plate it myself during the Haunt Boo-ffet.

[Bubba83]

Just curious how long the lines are typically in December for Ghostrider and Xcelerator mid-day on a Saturday. I'll be there this Saturday and would like to know what to expect.

[SoCalJasonland]

Just curious how long the lines are typically in December for Ghostrider and Xcelerator mid-day on a Saturday. I'll be there this Saturday and would like to know what to expect.

 

I usually just go in the park on the weekends to walk around and ride the coasters during the week. With that, the Knott's app usually shows 1 hr 30 min to 2 hours for Ghostrider and approx 30 - 60 min for Xcelerator, Silver Bullet and most of the other popular coasters. Ghostrider, even with two trains, still only pulls about 400 to 500 people per hour so the line doesn't move fast.

[SFMMGeek27]

Just curious how long the lines are typically in December for Ghostrider and Xcelerator mid-day on a Saturday. I'll be there this Saturday and would like to know what to expect.

 

I usually just go in the park on the weekends to walk around and ride the coasters during the week. With that, the Knott's app usually shows 1 hr 30 min to 2 hours for Ghostrider and approx 30 - 60 min for Xcelerator, Silver Bullet and most of the other popular coasters. Ghostrider, even with two trains, still only pulls about 400 to 500 people per hour so the line doesn't move fast.

 

Why is the capacity so low? It seems like it would be almost double that.

[SoCalJasonland]

Just curious how long the lines are typically in December for Ghostrider and Xcelerator mid-day on a Saturday. I'll be there this Saturday and would like to know what to expect.

 

I usually just go in the park on the weekends to walk around and ride the coasters during the week. With that, the Knott's app usually shows 1 hr 30 min to 2 hours for Ghostrider and approx 30 - 60 min for Xcelerator, Silver Bullet and most of the other popular coasters. Ghostrider, even with two trains, still only pulls about 400 to 500 people per hour so the line doesn't move fast.

 

Why is the capacity so low? It seems like it would be almost double that.

 

The dispatch time per train even with two trains running is every 3 to 4 minutes which gives you approx 15 to 20 dispatches per hour times the average riders per train to get capacity. I am guessing about 20 people per train with single riders and occasional missed rows. With one train running it is more like 6 to 7 minutes per dispatch and good luck getting 10 trains out per hour. The ride is long, the break run is long and slow, and they don't dispatch with two trains until the other train returns to the brake run.

[SoCalJasonland]

Just curious how long the lines are typically in December for Ghostrider and Xcelerator mid-day on a Saturday. I'll be there this Saturday and would like to know what to expect.

 

I usually just go in the park on the weekends to walk around and ride the coasters during the week. With that, the Knott's app usually shows 1 hr 30 min to 2 hours for Ghostrider and approx 30 - 60 min for Xcelerator, Silver Bullet and most of the other popular coasters. Ghostrider, even with two trains, still only pulls about 400 to 500 people per hour so the line doesn't move fast.

 

Why is the capacity so low? It seems like it would be almost double that.

 

Double post for some reason.

[CrazedZooChimp]

Just curious how long the lines are typically in December for Ghostrider and Xcelerator mid-day on a Saturday. I'll be there this Saturday and would like to know what to expect.

 

I usually just go in the park on the weekends to walk around and ride the coasters during the week. With that, the Knott's app usually shows 1 hr 30 min to 2 hours for Ghostrider and approx 30 - 60 min for Xcelerator, Silver Bullet and most of the other popular coasters. Ghostrider, even with two trains, still only pulls about 400 to 500 people per hour so the line doesn't move fast.

 

Why is the capacity so low? It seems like it would be almost double that.

 

The dispatch time per train even with two trains running is every 3 to 4 minutes which gives you approx 15 to 20 dispatches per hour times the average riders per train to get capacity. I am guessing about 20 people per train with single riders and occasional missed rows. With one train running it is more like 6 to 7 minutes per dispatch and good luck getting 10 trains out per hour. The ride is long, the break run is long and slow, and they don't dispatch with two trains until the other train returns to the brake run.

 

They really should add a single rider line...

[Arthur_Seaton]

They really should add a single rider line...

Part of the problem is the station layout. Ideally, they'd benefit from a grouper as the area in front of the gates bottlenecks and people can't access open seats. Plus, there's a different path for the last two seats that people seem oblivious to, so the ride ops often have to pull people from the gates and stick them in the back — otherwise it runs empty. Capacity has been atrocious since the reboot -- not that is was ever fantastic before -- but if they're just running one train, it takes like 30 minutes just to get through two small switchbacks.

[MrSum1_55]

Why does it take them that long to load Millenium Flyer trains? Even Magic Mountain can load Apocalypse faster than that. The Gold Striker crew is usually pretty good at not stacking as well.

 

Why is it that a park in the same chain that operates on a lower budget can dispatch the same exact coaster train in consistently under 2 minutes, while I have been hearing reports of 4 minute dispatches at Knott's?

[Arthur_Seaton]

Why does it take them that long to load Millenium Flyer trains? Even Magic Mountain can load Apocalypse faster than that. The Gold Striker crew is usually pretty good at not stacking as well.

 

Why is it that a park in the same chain that operates on a lower budget can dispatch the same exact coaster train in consistently under 2 minutes, while I have been hearing reports of 4 minute dispatches at Knott's?

 

It may have something to do with staffing / security checks, but in the last few times I've visited and ridden, it seems to be partly due to the station design (the general congestion but also the fact that there are designated cubbies for bags whereas on Apocalypse, people just leave their stuff by the that wall next to the train). On Ghost Rider, the riders who just exited the train are milling about on the platform, grabbing their stuff while the next train's riders are waiting for them to finish so the ride op can slide the partition across and let them put their stuff in the other side. Aside from that, I've observed a surprising amount of "walks of shame" and people just hanging out on the station platform rather than boarding the train or exiting. So I think it's a combination of things, but the glacial dispatches combined with long ride, that ridiculously slow new braking system, station design, and the GP's lack of basic awareness all work against efficiency. Apocalypse usually has several staff members in the line on busy days grouping the crowd before it enters the building, so the station is never really that crowded. Ghost Rider's station is always congested.

[DoubleDown]

Capacity didn't seem to be THAT much of an issue back in the rides heyday. Yeah there has always been congestion where the turnstyle is because the dumb GP doesn't know the proper time to go through it, and they don't pay attention to rows that aren't filled, but it is the ride ops jobs to get people moving THROUGH that turnstyle when they see that seats aren't being filled. It's not THAT hard of a job to do. They seem to be perfectly capable of yelling at people when they're sitting on the handrails, but they're incapable of telling them to go through the turnstyle?

 

They really should add a single rider line...

 

There is a stairway leading up the loading side of the station where the back of the trains are that I could see being used as a single rider line. Basically right where the Ride OP controls are. I seem to remember going that way several times when the park was empty, to skip the entire long winded line. There's a gate right there in the station. I'm trying to think how to enter those stairs, but you can clearly see them on Google Maps.

 

In the case of low capacity maybe it would have been better to have a block brake where they originally were above the station, after the turnaround, just so they don't have to wait for that train to make it all the way around the circuit. But just keep the brakes there as an emergency, and otherwise, keep them off.

 

I don't know, again, it makes no sense to me that you could have a park like Cedar Point in the same chain that perfects these kinds of issues, then have Knott's staff just look the other way. It seems so Magic-Mountain-esque. Less time in line means spending more money on food, souvenirs, etc.

 

One thing I remember about the ride waiting in the station was as soon as you heard the rumble of the train above the station on the turnaround, they'd dispatch the train. Didn't Ghostrider used to run 3 trains on busy Friday and Saturday nights? Or maybe I'm imagining it.

[Canobie Coaster]

When I visited the park at the end of June, I went on a weekday. GhostRider was closed for the first 2-3 hours. Once I saw it running, I ran over and the wait started in the downstairs shed. It took an hour and a half to get through the queue with 2 trains running. I attributed that to the ride having just returned from the reboot, but it seems that it hasn't gotten any better. I absolutely loved the ride and would have wanted to ride it a second time, but it wouldn't have been possible without risking missing my flight home.

[Freestyle23]

Just got to the park. The whole bottom queue is filled for Ghost rider...?

[Arthur_Seaton]

In the case of low capacity maybe it would have been better to have a block brake where they originally were above the station, after the turnaround, just so they don't have to wait for that train to make it all the way around the circuit. But just keep the brakes there as an emergency, and otherwise, keep them off.

 

Yeah, I'm sure the capacity drop has something to do with the removal of that brake. Obviously, we don't know the logic behind it, but that drop that followed the brake became one of the most iconic aspects of the ride because of its intensity. The irony is that today, due to the reduced weight of the new trains (I presume at least), that drop feels surprisingly more tame than before. Even when taken at full speed, it seems to lack any of the gut-churning effect it was so good at producing in the past. There's some ejection in the back seat, but it's nothing like it once was, so slapping a brake back on there for purposes of capacity probably wouldn't affect the way the coaster rides right now. Take one of those ridiculous brakes from the end of the ride, stick it up on the turnaround, and then set it to "off"!

[Arthur_Seaton]

Just got to the park. The whole bottom queue is filled for Ghost rider...?

You mean inside the building or all the way out toward the entrance? Chances are they're not using many switchbacks on the top floor, but still that sounds like it's at least a 90-minute wait if they're only running one train. Hopefully they have two running, then it'll be closer to 60 minutes.

[CedarFlags]

They really should add a single rider line...

Capacity has been atrocious since the reboot -- not that is was ever fantastic before -- but if they're just running one train, it takes like 30 minutes just to get through two small switchbacks.

 

GR with one train is a NIGHTMARE. 4 train wait took 30 minutes. I was getting so mad.

[Freestyle23]

One train, asked an employee if it'll be one train all day and he said yes. Hour 1/2 wait.

[Arthur_Seaton]

One train, asked an employee if it'll be one train all day and he said yes. Hour 1/2 wait.

That sucks. Given how quiet the park can be in the off-season though, I can't blame them for wanting to cut back on operations and staffing and whatnot. The past few times I've been, GR has had a consistently hefty line whereas everything else in the park is a walk-on. Waiting 90-mins for a ride is, ultimately, the norm during the busy season, but it just feels odd when everything else is <10 mins. Of course it's not Knotts' job to pander to the likes of us who'll go on slow days to just marathon the same ride over and over, but I hope they can do something to make the ride a little more efficient in the future. Despite such annoyances, it's still a very good roller coaster.

[SoCalJasonland]

I stopped by Knott's from 11:30 am to 1:30 pm on Friday. First stop was Ghostrider and once I saw the line was out of the station, with both upstairs and downstairs queue utilized and one train operation; I decided to pass. The app showed 100 minutes wait on a weekday at noon with school in session. This ride does not have good capacity. I then walked by Rapids to see it drained. Took a couple of rides on Xcelerator and Silver Bullet. Both had two trains running and short lines except for the front row. I got a couple of rides on La Revolution and took another walk around the park again and left. Nothing new at Wipeout or old Windseeker sight.

Hi Knotts

Line out the door of station, 1 train operation

Wait time around noon 12/09/16

10/27/16 Before

12/09/16 No Water

10/27/16 Before

12/09/16 - Much prettier with water

Xcelerator two trains running - about one train wait for the back

Silver Bullet - 2 trains no wait

[CaptainUnknown]

It always astounds me to see how simply rapids are created on river rapids rides. Has Knotts ever used theirs for Scary Farm maze? I think I heard tale of at least one Six Flags doing this.

[Nrthwnd]

^ I find it fascinating those simple pipes that are attached to the surface of the trough for the "rapids."

As they help create the rapids, them self. So simple. And so effective.

[Comeagain?]

It always astounds me to see how simply rapids are created on river rapids rides. Has Knotts ever used theirs for Scary Farm maze? I think I heard tale of at least one Six Flags doing this.

 

Silverwood used to use their rapids ride for a housed, but it's not as easy as it looks to put an attraction in the trough. And they're naturally designed to retain water and when it rains, it ends up underwater in places.

[DoubleDown]

Did Knott's buy 2 or 3 trains for the Ghostrider refurb?

 

Because running one train at that capacity is about as bad as running X2 that way.

 

I haven't been there since the refurb, but am planning on going there at the end of the month. From what I've heard and seen, I'm pretty disappointed with the way the park has been operating the ride considering beyond the supports, the ride is practically new. It's also a shame RCDB isn't as up to date as they used to be, because typically I'd get this kind of information from there, but there's no information on number of trains at all.

[ytterbiumanalyst]

There are only 2 trains. The mid-course brake was removed because the park simply couldn't dispatch fast enough for 3 trains to make a difference. They did not buy an extra train, so the 2 is all they have. All this information comes from park management during the Ghostrider walkback at WCB.