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The Knott's Berry Farm (KBF) Discussion Thread

P. 639: Montezooma's Revenge major renovations announced!

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I visited the park two days ago and did some asking around. According to the guy who does the voice in the Jail, Xcelerator will most likely be down for a month or more so probably no Haunt for it. It's in need of repair, but the main reason is because of the state investigation, which according to him has not started yet and "you know the state, they'll get to it when they get to it". So I'm guessing that the ride can not technically open until the state deems it safe to open again and who knows how long that will be...

 

Also, I got multiple vantage points looking at the launch track and the catch car was about 3/4 of the way up the launch and there was a type of scaffolding on the track sitting over it. Just past the station, one of the break fins was bent at the tip. Also, the launch cable was inside the housing in the track, but I'm guessing that maintenance or somebody might have moved the cable since the accident. I'm not really sure what any of this proves or means but it's what I saw.

 

I must say that when I first saw the video I thought, "cable snap, that's it" but I didn't see the seat jerk and didn't really notice the smoke either. But now it seems that it was much more serious then just the cable snapping.

 

I hope that the riders are okay and they get the correct compensation for their traumatic experience.

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You can't really cover the catch car trough, because then there'd be no way for it to connect to the train...and even so, with the force the cable has on it mid launch, it would just shred through te covering anyway...

 

What Intamin could do is partially cover the catch-car trough and leave a thin slit down the center for the catch. Of course, this would necessitate a complete redesign of the catch-car system, but it would help contain the cable and catch-car in case of a cable failure.

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^Like have the width of the slit for the catch that would be narrower than the actual cable? That way if it did pop it wouldn't fit out? Image how much force though that would have to be contained by a relatively thing strip of metal. If the cable snapped and warped that piece of metal you would have to completely rehab that piece of track to fix it.

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Yes but Intamin needs to find a way to make those cables more durable, or well have another SFKK disaster (i.e. the girl that lost her feet) on their hands. That should be their main concern!

 

It freaks me out that these cables have broken more within the last couple years or so. Like just a few weeks after the SFKK incident, THE SAME TYPE OF DROP RIDE some where in Spain (Pretty sure its at Port Adventura) the cable snap! Now I dont know the intervals between replacing cables, but something has to change with those Cables

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^Like have the width of the slit for the catch that would be narrower than the actual cable? That way if it did pop it wouldn't fit out? Image how much force though that would have to be contained by a relatively thing strip of metal.

 

The slit doesn't have to be narrower than the cable. Remember, when a cable breaks it snaps back and bunches up, so even partially covering the top of the trough would probably prevent the cable from escaping. The idea is to make it statistically unlikely for the cable to pop out, not impossible.

 

If the cable snapped and warped that piece of metal you would have to completely rehab that piece of track to fix it.

 

Better that than a lawsuit.

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I don't understand why everyone thinks these people deserve monetary compensation from a lawsuit. They weren't actually injured were they? If they were injured, then sure.

 

But compensating the "victims" for getting a nice scare on a roller coaster? Isn't that the purpose of the ride in the first place?

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^A controlled scare yes. A "sorry folks...it's never done that before" scare not so much.

 

However I do agree with you. I think in situations like these medical bills and maybe lost wages should be about it. If there were no severe injuries, maybe a couple of free tickets back...if they'd go.

 

On a "non-Xcelerator" topic, I went to the park today to pick up my Haunt Shirt, and saw the progress of Ghostrider. New wood on the airtime hill and High-Beach. Should provide a noticable difference. Hope it's ready by Thursday.

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However I do agree with you. I think in situations like these medical bills and maybe lost wages should be about it. If there were no severe injuries, maybe a couple of free tickets back...if they'd go.

 

Actually, I'm totally fine with "pain and suffering" awards if there are actual injuries. It's just in a case where there aren't any actual injuries, I'm not sure what they'd be suing for.

 

Plenty of people have *almost* wrecked into me while driving and I had to swerve to miss them. Doesn't mean I'm entitled to money for them for almost killing/injuring me.

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The bent brake fin is interesting. Cable could have snapped hitting and bending that fin because during the launch after the train passes that block the fins raise back up, (all the other stuff happened), then as the train was slowly rolling back to the station hit the bent brake fin which stopped it suddenly. That would at least explain the sudden stop. As far as the seat moving I see that only as a result of the sudden stop and it 'giving' a little, not being broken, but I wasn't there. And the smoke people are eluding to could be a result of the cable snapping and laying across the track and as the train came back either it got caught with the wheels or was dragged under the train and the friction being generated from the dragging caused the smoke. The point during the rollback while the train is still going pretty fast and where you start to see smoke it looks like the train hit something, like I said could have been cable debris, and it looks like that it APPEARS the seats move but it is only the train jumping because it hits or runs over something. My guess would be the train ran over something on the side the kid was sitting on. Too bad the video quality wasn't better because as the train is coming back down the top hat you can see the launch track on there is a dark area on it which, if you watch closely, is right about the area the train appears to jump and you see the smoke.

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E-stopped worked exactly as it was designed, it cut all power to the brakes forcing them to pop up and slowed the train down before it hit the block before it. In this case it was passed (or on) the damaged section of the cable/launch sled which has nothing to do with the smoke or the kids seat being misaligned.

 

And if you can make it without freaking out then more power to you. And if not I'll make fun of you on the internet.

 

WTF???? Dude, you do NOT know what happened. You don't. So just stop. While I am sure that your friends/family are certainly impressed with your knowledge of coasters and your ability to watch 1 minute silent videos and makes judgments, a lot of people are not. Myself included.

 

I have seen Xcelerator rollback tons of times and have never seen the freakin' seat move and smoke come out! So just stop with your "I am an expert and can stay calm" crap. Guaranteed this is traumatic for these people, so have a little respect, or restraint or something. You're really sounding like a douche.

 

You probably don't care and were merely trying to insult me, but my interest to this hobby is mostly contained within this site unless I rarely happen to be out with other coaster nerds; I have far more pressing issues within my life that need more of my attention then roller coasters or accidents within the amusement park industry. I apologize if you misread my post, and you feel the need to be so hostile toward me, but that's ok I understand I come off a bit strong and I once again apologize, but I do think you missed the point I was trying to make with the first half of the post. I also apologize for trying to give reference for where I am coming from for my opinions I am being attacked for and I hope you do realize I feel as if I was being attacked leading me to act irrational and word things differently then I should have to get my opinion across.

 

That said I do feel compelled to point out that in that statement you quoted of me I was just trying to say the E-stop worked exactly as it should have, nothing malicious aside from the snide remark I made at the bottom of that particular post which I intended as a joke about the previous misconceptions about my posts. Now there are other issues which did interfere with the ride, but the rides program did exactly as it was intended when an E-Stop is triggered for whatever reason. The smoke, misaligned seat and sudden short stop are not part of the normal operation but is irrelevant to whether an e-stop failed as it was carried out to the best of the rides program. I will admit I did step out of my bounds as I was not completely aware of Xcelerator's set up, but as a former ride op on Top Thrill Dragster for a couple of years I do have limited knowledge of the hydraulic launch system as well as Intamin's use of safety features on their Accelerator roller coasters. It has been a while since I have visited Knott's Berry Farm (about three years now), so I was basing my observation on my experience with TTD.

 

I wish all injured parties a speedy recovery and that has always been in my posts since my first post about the incident.

 

 

So if you had debris falling on your face you would just sit there and remain calm while trying to dodge losing an eye?

 

ADMIN EDIT: It's OK to disagree. Name calling, however, is not. Please keep this conversation civil. Thank you.

Chuck

 

I did not see before the edit so I don't know what you said, but I would also like to apologize to you for getting to the point were you felt you needed to insult me. I would just like to point out that while I would not be completely passive, there would be no time for anyone to protect themselves from the impact of the shredded cables upon launching. And even after the ride came to a stop, I would wager that I would remain more calm then the passengers in the video mostly from the fact that I would know what was happening.

 

 

 

 

 

I feel this should be the end of this and if anyone else has further qualms about my posts or my opinions, I do implore that you do private Message me instead of attacking me in this thread as I feel this has gone on longer then it should and is now bordering on going off topic about disagreeing with my opinions.

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Alright take it for what it's worth, I'm 99% sure this is bogus, but a lead is a lead when in mystery. (Though I did find it on a youtube comment... )

im watching this video in aw because those two ppl are russel(the adult)and kyle(thid)they are father and son and russel is my moms co-worker ......russel is currently ok,nothins wrong with him and kyles leg is all effed up,he has several large sutres in his leg and sever burn marks
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Knotts is not going to get closed down for this but honestly, I am glad this Video got out as otherwise they would have tried to cover it up, which certainly would not have helped at all

 

This way a detailed investigation will be launched so something like this will hopefully not happen again

 

I mean, the seat tilted at the end to the side, cables/debris flying all around. On this one the park really got lucky as a lot and I mean A LOT worse could have happend

 

A detailed investigation would have happened no matter what the outcome of this accident was or whether or not video was released. Do you think the park or manufacturer would really just shrug their shoulders and continue business as usual and hope it doesn't happen again?

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I'm really trying to be optimistic but I can't seem to see Xcelerator opening even after Haunt. I really hope I'm wrong and they get it up and running again but my gut is saying otherwise.

 

If you have been to the park recently you would have seen maintenance already working on repairing the ride. Stay Optimistic!

 

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I don't understand why everyone thinks these people deserve monetary compensation from a lawsuit. They weren't actually injured were they? If they were injured, then sure.

 

But compensating the "victims" for getting a nice scare on a roller coaster? Isn't that the purpose of the ride in the first place?

 

For the record I'm not saying that I personally think that they deserve to get any compensation! However I would be shocked if they didn't at least try to sue and make some quick money, that's just how people do things. Even if they're not injured a lot of people see these as opportunities to make some money.

 

We read cases where people recover for slipping on banana peels in train stations. If you can recover from that I'm pretty sure that you can find some way to recover something for having a steel cable explode on you.

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For the record I'm not saying that I personally think that they deserve to get any compensation! However I would be shocked if they didn't at least try to sue and make some quick money, that's just how people do things. Even if they're not injured a lot of people see these as opportunities to make some money.

 

We read cases where people recover for slipping on banana peels in train stations. If you can recover from that I'm pretty sure that you can find some way to recover something for having a steel cable explode on you.

 

And the plaintiffs get paid some token, small amount because it's cheaper than litigating for the company they're suing. A very sad reality of our legal system. It's cheaper to buy people off than to fight their BS cases.

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im surprised this happens. I thought knott's replaced the cable once a year. I know they had just replaced it in spring 08 and I would think that it would have been replaced again this year before the peak seasons.

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And the plaintiffs get paid some token, small amount because it's cheaper than litigating for the company they're suing. A very sad reality of our legal system. It's cheaper to buy people off than to fight their BS cases.

 

That is one of those draw backs, it is cheaper to settle then to bother with litigation. Not to mention that if this were to somehow become a big deal (which I'm sure isn't going to happen) it is terrible press for the park. Better to pay out some incidental sum (My guess is Knott's will offer between $10,000 and $25000 total) to make the situation go away.

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Knotts is not going to get closed down for this but honestly, I am glad this Video got out as otherwise they would have tried to cover it up, which certainly would not have helped at all

 

This way a detailed investigation will be launched so something like this will hopefully not happen again

 

I mean, the seat tilted at the end to the side, cables/debris flying all around. On this one the park really got lucky as a lot and I mean A LOT worse could have happend

 

A detailed investigation would have happened no matter what the outcome of this accident was or whether or not video was released. Do you think the park or manufacturer would really just shrug their shoulders and continue business as usual and hope it doesn't happen again?

 

We wouldn't see the results of the investigation if it didn't make the news. Now media outlets will do all the hard work for us and/or KBF/DOSH will come out with a statement when the investigation is complete. Usually if you wanted to see DOSH ride reports, I believe you would have to go to a DOSH office, pay a fee, fill out an application to get the report, then wait for them to get back to you. Has ANYONE actually bothered to do that unless the accident made the news?

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But we don't deserve to know anything, really. If there was no video, no news report, there STILL would have been an investigation and then what... all goes on as normal. While I will say I feel bad for the boy and his father and hope they will be o.k., I will also say that it would not surprise me in the least if they filed a suit.

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I feel that if there was no video then this story would be dead.

 

That's like saying "if nobody reported the story then there would be no story."

 

Yes, that's true... but...

 

I think there are also people who are somehow offended by the interest in this incident. Maybe you're a Knott's homer or something. I'm not, but I still love Knott's + Intamin + Xcelerator + Cedar Fair. And if you're defending any of them because you have developed some kind of personal investment, I think that's great.

 

However... the video IS shocking. I'm surprised that some people deny that the seat was dislodged. You can measure the distance between either the headrests or the armrests of the two seats from start to finish. They change (good thing no OTSR?).

 

Anyway, I'm sure they will fix it and fix it for good.

 

Top Thrill Dragster is currently still running (from what I've read). Perhaps this problem has already been solved, but not quite applied to Xcelerator. After all, Top Thrill Dragster and Xcelerator are quite different despite their shared lineage. I bet the math says that Xcelerator's cable should long outlast Top Thrill Dragster's without watering or whatever they may be doing to keep it cool.

 

Long live Xcelerator!

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