The Knott's Berry Farm (KBF) Discussion Thread

[tkkyj]

^Where is that press release? Or was it on TV or something?

 

http://www.redding.com/news/2009/sep/22/weaverville-boy-injured-in-knotts-berry-farm/

 

Soon after the ride started its uphill climb, a cable snapped, slicing through the front of the faux car, Morgan said.

 

The wire also sliced through Kyle's left calf, Morgan said.

 

"He's going to be out of it for a while," Morgan said of the boy's injuries.

[Tmcdllr]

I think TTD and KK use two cables for the launch and I'm guessing this one uses one? If that's the case, maybe it should be changed to 2 so the load can be shared by both cables instead of having it all on one. And the fact that these cables are supposed to be good for a year and this one did not last a year points to a defective cable, possibly, in which case the cable supplier should be looked at. Another possibility is that the cable got damaged somehow without notice until this happened.

[fpsphil]

Xcelerator uses 2 pull cables and one return cable like king da ka and ttd

[Bolliger&Mabillard]

I urge you all to take this with a grain of salt...I'm glad I rode Xcelerator with lapbars...because now...

[Calicoasters]

^The ride's restraint system will not be changed.

[G-Force!]

^I second that.

 

The cable has nothing to do with the restraints of the ride. In my opinion, if anything does get modified, I believe it may have to do with how the cable itself is inspected. As far as a complete design change, you can probably just throw that out the window right now.

[themeparkman25]

tkkyj-Thank you for that link. It helps to know that knowledge.

 

I do not understand why the park, and more directly Cedar Fair, have not offered to pay for medical expenses. In an effort to avoid a potentially large lawsuit, one would think that getting on good and working terms with the family would be a priority. Perhaps it is coming, but I just feel like the park should be doing everything they can to ensure the family's sitiation is handled well and the boy gets proper treatment.

 

 

Why are the restraints being brought into this?

[ahecht]

I do not understand why the park, and more directly Cedar Fair, have not offered to pay for medical expenses. In an effort to avoid a potentially large lawsuit, one would think that getting on good and working terms with the family would be a priority. Perhaps it is coming, but I just feel like the park should be doing everything they can to ensure the family's sitiation is handled well and the boy gets proper treatment.

 

Paying medical expenses would imply that Cedar Fair is admitting liability, which could hurt them in a lawsuit or settlement. In any case, as long as the family has health insurance, it would be up to the insurance company to sue Cedar Fair for reimbursement.

[Jew]

^Imply? Perhaps. Written into the contract they give the hospital/family agreeing to pay for medical expenses? Absolutely not. I'm sure if they were to pay for medical expenses, it would be made very clear that it was simply a gesture of good faith and by no means an admission of guilt.

[mcjaco]

I do not understand why the park, and more directly Cedar Fair, have not offered to pay for medical expenses. In an effort to avoid a potentially large lawsuit, one would think that getting on good and working terms with the family would be a priority. Perhaps it is coming, but I just feel like the park should be doing everything they can to ensure the family's sitiation is handled well and the boy gets proper treatment.

 

Paying medical expenses would imply that Cedar Fair is admitting liability, which could hurt them in a lawsuit or settlement. In any case, as long as the family has health insurance, it would be up to the insurance company to sue Cedar Fair for reimbursement.

 

OK, boys and girls, General Liability Policy 101 lesson coming up:

 

Many GL policies have what is called a Medical Payments Coverage. Medical Payments Coverage is a seperate coverage under the policy, that allows the Insured (or the third party administrator handling the claims), to make medical payments to the claimant for any medical bills related to the occurence. However, the Medical Payments Coverage is a NO liability payment. It's a good faith offer, to help the claimant with some of their medical bills.

 

I used to use it as a bargaining chip while I was still investigating a claim. Many times, insurance companies will offer this type of payment even when the insured isn't liable, but they feel a good faith offer is in order. Typically, the set of circumstances are in favor of the claimant, but there is still no liability (like a third party causing an issue, and not the insured in question), or the claimant has made no ridiculous demands, and is easy to work with during the claim investigation.

 

Matt "Insuranz Skillz" Jacobs

[Jerrykoala2112]

I saw a picture of the front cart. The cable slices right through it.

 

If Excelerator got OTSR's...umm, Then I would be speechless. No one feel out of the ride like Perious Plunge, forget the name, so I wouldn't see why they would get them....

[Tmcdllr]

Who said anything about changing the restraints, there is absolutely no need to. I think what will change is the cable inspection procedure/schedule and maybe a different or stronger cable. If park maintenance is not at fault the cable supplier might be looked at. Does anyone know if since these types of rides have been installed and with the instances of problems with the cables, has Intamin changed the recommendation regarding when the cables should be replaced? I don't recall hearing anything about it.

[Six Flags Enthuseast]

It sounds like most of the accidents involving cables (mainly on Dragster) were at low speeds and were probably caused by the initial thrust of the launch. Since those accidents were less severe, they probably just did maintainence a little more often. Since this was a high speed cable 'shattering' they'd probably do some more investigation in to what exactly happened. I'm pretty sure they are going to replace the front car of the red train because of the damage, plus any other parts damaged in the accident. I wonder if they will repaint it....? I can only dream...

 

^^Yeah, probably no need for OTSR's.

[Bolliger&Mabillard]

^^I did. And I stand by that claim. If the train sustained damage that requires it to be replaced, Intamin discontinued the lapbar style rocket trains. I don't know if that will happen. But to not consider it as a possibility would be kinda...

[fpsphil]

i think they will simply rebuild the front car, its made of pretty strong steel. The main damage that the front car endured appeared to be from the cable going through the fiberglass which is a easy replacement

[Dietcokevan]

If they do go with new trains, it doesn't mean OTSRs, couldn't the U-Bar style work on Xcelerator?

[coaster_pimp]

Scenario: KBF adds OTSR's to Accelerator

 

Reaction: CF and KBF get tested positive for crack.

[Tmcdllr]

So IF the restraints were changed they would all have to be changed on all the trains, very costly and I don't see that happening even if they are discontinued. Why go through the expense of replacing them all when you only maybe need to replace a few. Even if they couldn't get them from Intamin why couldn't someone else make them? Would be far less expensive and they would just need to be made up to Intamin specs. Mix-n-match, sure no problem.

[Crazy4Coasters!]

It sounds like most of the accidents involving cables (mainly on Dragster) were at low speeds and were probably caused by the initial thrust of the launch. Since those accidents were less severe, they probably just did maintainence a little more often. Since this was a high speed cable 'shattering' they'd probably do some more investigation in to what exactly happened. I'm pretty sure they are going to replace the front car of the red train because of the damage, plus any other parts damaged in the accident. I wonder if they will repaint it....? I can only dream...

 

I don't mean to bust your chops buddy but after reading your post a picture I had on my computer came to mind!

[Six Flags Enthuseast]

^Actually, that's kinda funny.

[Bolliger&Mabillard]

So IF the restraints were changed they would all have to be changed on all the trains, very costly and I don't see that happening even if they are discontinued. Why go through the expense of replacing them all when you only maybe need to replace a few. Even if they couldn't get them from Intamin why couldn't someone else make them? Would be far less expensive and they would just need to be made up to Intamin specs. Mix-n-match, sure no problem.

 

Funny thing about that is...you can't put anything on a ride that the manufacturer doesn't apporve of. And if these new restraints were to be outsourced by a contractor, Intamin wouldn't make any money from that...would they? And as an added bonus, the minute a park uses ANY component that a manufacturer didn't give a personal "thumbs up" on, it washes their hands off any liability. Now folks, keep in mind I don't necessarily think this is the case. Just a possibility. More restrictive procedures have been implemented before and I would not rule this one out.

[Crazy4Coasters!]

^^ That's good buddy, It just made me remember about the picture when I read your post. Just glad you have a sense of humor.

[Tmcdllr]

^^That is a very good point and it answers my question, thanks.

[Medusa1861]

So IF the restraints were changed they would all have to be changed on all the trains, very costly and I don't see that happening even if they are discontinued. Why go through the expense of replacing them all when you only maybe need to replace a few. Even if they couldn't get them from Intamin why couldn't someone else make them? Would be far less expensive and they would just need to be made up to Intamin specs. Mix-n-match, sure no problem.

 

Funny thing about that is...you can't put anything on a ride that the manufacturer doesn't apporve of. And if these new restraints were to be outsourced by a contractor, Intamin wouldn't make any money from that...would they? And as an added bonus, the minute a park uses ANY component that a manufacturer didn't give a personal "thumbs up" on, it washes their hands off any liability. Now folks, keep in mind I don't necessarily think this is the case. Just a possibility. More restrictive procedures have been implemented before and I would not rule this one out.

 

I'm pretty sure you can modify your product like that and that it doesn't wash the manufacture's hands of any liability. Just taking a legal environments course, and having done modifications my car. It only removes them of any liability if what you have done to the product is what cause the incident. In the case of new restraints. Assuming it was an outside modification. Intamin might be able to partially get away with the liability of injury to the passengers. But they are still liable for the whole cable snap thing.

[Bolliger&Mabillard]

^After reading that a second time, I completely had to reword my post....Of course it voids liability. The first thing Intamin (or anyone for that matter) would say is that they are no longer liable for anything. In the same way electronics say "Warranty void if seal is broken", Any modifications, no matter how insignificant they may seem, would still create a conflict should any problems. Say for example the park gets restraints no approved by Intamin. Intamin assumes no liability for the restraints. A year later there is a seat malfunction. Let's say the seat needed to be altered to conform to new, unapproved retraints. Is Intamin still liable? I didn't think so either.