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The Knott's Berry Farm (KBF) Discussion Thread

P. 639: Montezooma's Revenge major renovations announced!

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^^ I think 2007/2008 is the last time the Scrambler was open. I'm guessing it's just been sitting in storage?

 

 

I can confirm this is correct, most of the ride has actually been sitting outdoors except for the cars which were stored inside one of the ghost rider maintenance sheds, I use to walk past it every day on my way to work you can see it from Google maps:

 

https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=205243508764989521639.0004cd7b53bbe0cb97ebf&msa=0&ll=33.842146,-117.998327&spn=0.001972,0.002009

 

 

zoom in all the way between Ghost Rider and the shops ( behind the tree ) you will see the red center piece from the ride and the cars with the rest of the ride are stored across the walkway on the other side of the tree in that first maintenance shed.

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This is basically what was being rumored lately (even the announcement date), so for me there's no anticippointment compared to the Full Throttle announcement. So that's already a plus. I'm still a little disappointed that they didn't go for a more interesting family coaster (a Gerstlauer Bobsled would've been so awesome) and that they didn't opt to put the scrambler back in the box. Before Adventure City closed their mouse, we had 4 wild mice nearby (2 by Mack, now adding a 3rd), plus 2 or 3 more if you count the fairs and 'Raton Loco' down in TJ. But overall I think it's a good choice, and I'm stoked about the flyers, as I said earlier that flyers would be my top choice for the second flatride. They're very rerideable because each ride is unique, a bit of a challenge, and not at all nauseating.

 

Also, I really do like the change in atmosphere shown in the concept art. Previously the boardwalk was a bit too dominated by towering attractions (Sky Cabin, Xcelerator, Supreme Scream, Boomerang, RipTide, ex-Perilous Plunge) with nothing to keep your attention on the ground. This should make the area a lot cozier, going back to a similar layout to before, with a few flats along that stretch of land. It should help make the boardwalk start to match the rest of the park.

 

Regarding their claim of 5 family coasters: "Go Small! Go Knott's!"

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To us big coaster fans it doesn't sound too exciting. But it's a great addition to the park that's lacking family rides....I do find it pointless though for people to argue over theses attractions over what SFMM is doing with Full Throttle.... Thrill rides is what only Six Flags knows how to do. So thats there stragety plan. While at least for Knott's they want to blend a balance of family stuff and thrill rides for both adults and kids. At least out of the 2 parks. Knott's does have the advantage with the familys now.

 

Just my thought

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Even on the family front knotts could have done far better. How about revamping the log ride, ghost town, and mine train attractions and bring them up to the standards of the 21at century? If knotts was targetting family, they shouldnt have put in a coaster at all. The knotts experience is far too shallow and they could and should do far better. Knotts, imo, just completely lacks vision and doesnt reach its full potential.

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To us big coaster fans it doesn't sound too exciting. But it's a great addition to the park that's lacking family rides....I do find it pointless though for people to argue over theses attractions over what SFMM is doing with YOLOcoaster.... Thrill rides is what only Six Flags knows how to do. So thats there stragety plan. While at least for Knott's they want to blend a balance of family stuff and thrill rides for both adults and kids. At least out of the 2 parks. Knott's does have the advantage with the familys now.

 

Just my thought

 

 

Knotts lacks family rides?

 

Jaguar

Mystery Lodge

Big Foot Rapids

Log Ride

Mine Ride

Sierra Side Winder

Pony Express

Hat Dance

Pirate Ship

Ghost Town Train

Sky Tower

Wipe Out

Wave Swinger

 

 

If anything, Knotts has an abundance of family rides and the last 5 years has seen all but one addition be family rides.

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Knott's is doing the opposite of Magic Mountain - and I think that they'll be better off for it.

 

I would much rather go to a super-fun family-oriented park than a coaster-heavy park, which is one of the reasons that I like Knoebels so much. Big coasters are awesome, but it's nice to be able to relax on other rides that aren't nearly as intense/aggressive but still lots of fun.

 

This leads me to believe there is a good chance that this may be a relocation of either Ricochet from KD or Fly from CW (both the same model.) This would explain why they made what would have been a kind of weird choice if they purchased it new.

Coast Rider's layout is a mirror image of those two coasters. Maybe they'll turn all of the track inside-out?

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^^Agree! Even as it was considered cold when I was at SFMM last year I really enjoyed the ride on Log Jammer late midday. And as I gather it can get quite hot up there so I can't understand why they don't put in a new waterride.

 

For Knotts it'll be the second MACK coaster and I think it's a good add - with luck this won't be a standard large park model, maybe the first drop will be similar to the one at Wild Mouse XXL here on the carnival circuit. The only problem with wild mice is their lack of capacity...

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Knott's is doing the opposite of Magic Mountain - and I think that they'll be better off for it.

 

I would much rather go to a super-fun family-oriented park than a coaster-heavy park, which is one of the reasons that I like Knoebels so much. Big coasters are awesome, but it's nice to be able to relax on other rides that aren't nearly as intense/aggressive but still lots of fun.

 

And I would rather have the option of both, like we have. I never get the complaining about what one park adds compared to another. I think it's cool to have completely different options, as opposed to several parks all trying to do the same thing.

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It's not like Knott's is lacking for big thrill rides, either, with Xcelerator, Montezooma's Revenge, Silver Bullet, and for better or worse (mostly the latter), Ghost Rider and Boomerang. I'd say that's a pretty fair average for a park that size.

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I think Knott's is generally being smart. It seems to be targeting the "tween" family market: those kids that feel Disney is for babies, but aren't quite ready for Magic Mountain. Plus, I'd almost argue it's a better family park than Disney: it's way more affordable, and there are attractions for nearly every age range. Is it extensive? No, but at least it has it. While I do hope future ride is more thrilling (or a dark ride to replace the KOD space--like that will ever happen, but one can always hope), this is fine in the meantime.

 

I personally enjoy scramblers. I'm just dreading the agonizingly slow, only the operator can open with a foot switch one at a time restraint system they have. Always seemed so unnecessary, and makes the line take forever.

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Lets be honest here. WE DON'T KNOW Their intentions. When Cedar Fair purchased the park from the Knott's family, what was the first thing they did? They literally made a Cedar Point West, Xcelerator, Silver Bullet just to name two additions. What happened to Six Flags during this time in the region?

 

Bottomline, outside of Disneyland, the general area that Knott's caters to doesn't really have a family oriented theme park on the scale of KBF. Its a market that they can tap into and they have. Log Ride to give you an idea, is still very popular because its an attraction the family can enjoy together. Calico Mine Ride the same, and those two are currently the highest capacity attractions in the park, ~1300 Riders and ~1500+ respectively. Granted there is a obviously a nostalgic factor in both those attractions, too.

 

But back to my original point. 5 years of family additions doesn't mean that next year or the year after that something new and thrilling won't be announced. Will it be a Giga? Probably not... but something new, something fresh. Xcelerator = Prototype, Sierra Sidewinder = Something New. Let me ask you this. Would you rather have a Giga that most of us could probably travel to to ride. A mega which us locals can just drive to ride. Knott's is the perfect breeding ground for something new, compact and pretty incredible.

 

You have to think long term when running a business... sometimes. I am pretty sure that is what a conservative company like Cedar Fair is doing, at least on the West coast.

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I disagree that the park isn't too "family oriented." The planned addition is holistically a pretty good move for KBF. But, if we're going to talk about making KBF a "complete" park, then I personally think a GR rehab would really make the park solid. Oh, but whatever happened to wanting to get Timberliners on it?

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Lets be honest here. WE DON'T KNOW Their intentions. When Cedar Fair purchased the park from the Knott's family, what was the first thing they did? They literally made a Cedar Point West, Xcelerator, Silver Bullet just to name two additions.

 

Actually, the first thing they did is promise to complete GhostRider/renovate that section of Ghost Town. That was a project the Knott's family was already working on.

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I don't get why people keep thinking that Knott's has the land to make a giga coaster. I may have never been there, but I have Google Earth and Bing Maps. Knott's is landlocked. And it's not a large park either. Just look at it on Bing Maps:

 

http://www.bing.com/maps/default.aspx?v=2&cp=33.844124~-117.999913&style=h&lvl=17&sp=aN.33.844124_-117.999913_Knott's+Berry+Farm&encType=1

 

It is really freaking cramped for space. Hopefully some of you guys will be able to appreciate Silver Bullet more now because with that lack of land available for it, the designs that B&M could pull off have been extremely limited thanks to what land they can work with.

 

There are several glaring problems with building a giga coaster:

 

Theoretically, this could be built in the park, however, the ride would have to intertwine with virtually everything in the whole park, supports would have to be crazy in order to work, and the atmosphere of the whole park would be ruined (which looks like that they are finally trying to preserve it.) The only real way for a giga coaster to fit in the park would be if the supports were connected to the roofs of the buildings, but since these buildings aren't meant to support such crazy loads, that would mean that a very large portion of the buildings in the park would have to be heavily modified in order to withstand all that steel on top of them. And this would be hard and expensive enough in a place like the Northeast. But this is California, and it's only about an hour or so of a drive away from the San Andreas fault line, so the supports would have to be even beefier so it doesn't collapse during an earthquake (which if this thing collapsed during an earthquake, that would mean an absolute disaster for the park because not only would their largest and most expensive investment be destroyed, all those track pieces that would come crashing down would also destroy a crap ton in the park, because you're basically letting a semi trailer fall up to 300+ feet onto whatever is under it, and since so many of the supports would be attached to the buildings, then a lot of the buildings would be destroyed.

 

Face it: unless Knott's is willing to take out a large portion of their older buildings or rides or somehow is able to buy out the parking lot on the other side of Western Avenue (on the other side of the road that Coast Rider will border) I simply cannot see a giga (or even anything remotely close to that size) coming into the park. And even if that plot of land would be purchased, it would be a very difficult fit and you would still run into a lot of the same problems, added onto requiring land for a SFKK style pedestrian bridge.

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I'm personally happy for KBF. I really really like this addition and it's near perfect for the park. The only thing that bugs me is the choice of coaster. A wild mouse, ehh. Sure it meets the family quota but still, a wild mouse? And it's just like the one at LegoLand. I'm not saying this coaster is terrible in any means, honestly, this looks like one of the better wild mice. Although, MY personal choice would of been a bit different.

 

A small Euro-fighter (70'-90'/no inversions/lab-bar) filled will bunny Hills( ) and "Stengel dive" like elements, and possibly some underwater maneuvers (Vanish!). Something small, compact, Thrilling, relatively-cheap, and still fits within the family market. Again this is MY personal opinion on what could of been done. *Needed to let that one out*

 

But more importantly: I know KBF knows what they're doing. It's going to sell to the GP = Still making money, which is all that matters. If KBF is still doing this good with small additions like this. Then I can see why they don't go with multi-million dollar coasters, there is no need. Again, I'm happy with the addition and think it will make the park a more enjoyable experience. Maybe one day.....just maybe, the west coast can get that Mega-Lite, and taste that ohh-soo-sweet...air-time.

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