Holiday World (HW) Discussion Thread

[Vonni]

It has been rumored that the park has 3 big projects for the next 3 years. Lets say that one of them is a steel coaster. Would you rather see the park put off building a steel coaster and commit that money to getting the Voyage fixed? Lets say that they hire RMC and purchase their pre-fab topper track for the whole ride with RMC trains. They would not change the layout or design, just simply replace all the track. Would you rather see that happen to the Voyage or the park add a steel coaster? I know this is all hypothetical, but its something I've been thinking about.

 

 

I vote new steel

[gerstlaueringvar]

^First Butterfly in US?

[Koasterking48]

I guess I'm part of the apparently small group of enthusiasts that feel wooden coasters are supposed to be rough, and I like it that way. Also, I'm going to go all fan boy on you for a minute...I do not want RMC anywhere near The Voyage! This is one coaster I DO NOT want converted! Thats my piece.

There is a HUGE difference between a wooden roller coaster feeling like a wooden roller coaster, and a wooden roller coaster BEATING THE LIVING SH1T OUT OF YOU!!!!

 

I can handle a wooden roller coaster that rides "rough around the edges", but if the types of beatings I've received on The Voyage or Hades 360 is your thing, knock yourself out! (literally!) I won't be riding and I certainly won't be putting my child on the ride!

 

--Robb

 

I've never understood the "wooden coasters are supposed to be rough" mentality, either. I think the amazing and smooth airtime you get on rides like Balder and El Toro would change a lot of minds. Leaving a wood coaster with a headache and major spine adjustment is not my idea of "fun."

Yes I also don't get people who think that a very VERY rough coaster should continue to stay rough because it's "fun." I understand the older coasters (like pre-1950s) to be rough to some extent, but a 2006 (or 2005 in Hades' case) wood coaster should not be nearly unbearbly rough. What's "fun" about that?!

[Vonni]

I guess I'm part of the apparently small group of enthusiasts that feel wooden coasters are supposed to be rough, and I like it that way. Also, I'm going to go all fan boy on you for a minute...I do not want RMC anywhere near The Voyage! This is one coaster I DO NOT want converted! Thats my piece.

There is a HUGE difference between a wooden roller coaster feeling like a wooden roller coaster, and a wooden roller coaster BEATING THE LIVING SH1T OUT OF YOU!!!!

 

I can handle a wooden roller coaster that rides "rough around the edges", but if the types of beatings I've received on The Voyage or Hades 360 is your thing, knock yourself out! (literally!) I won't be riding and I certainly won't be putting my child on the ride!

 

--Robb

 

I've never understood the "wooden coasters are supposed to be rough" mentality, either. I think the amazing and smooth airtime you get on rides like Balder and El Toro would change a lot of minds. Leaving a wood coaster with a headache and major spine adjustment is not my idea of "fun."

Yes I also don't get people who think that a very VERY rough coaster should continue to stay rough because it's "fun." I understand the older coasters (like pre-1950s) to be rough to some extent, but a 2006 (or 2005 in Hades' case) wood coaster should not be nearly unbearbly rough. What's "fun" about that?!

 

The thing is, I do not find The Voyage unbearbly rough. I thought The legend was more rough than The Voyage, and that still was not that bad! Remember, this is all just my opinion. Everyone rides differently.

[ZeroGravity55]

^ I don't think The Legend is rough, it just has some very strong laterals that make it seem rough. I personally think the turn that is next to the lift on The Legend is one of the most laterally aggressive turns out there.

Edited August 19, 2013 by ZeroGravity55

[Woodie Warrior]

I don't care who does it, I just want Holiday World to find a company that can make Voyage a smooth, world-class coaster.

[Joe Cool]

Should of just gone with Intamin.

[Justice]

Should of just gone with Intamin.

At least The Voyage is still open...

[michaellynn4]

The thing is, I do not find The Voyage unbearbly rough. I thought The legend was more rough than The Voyage, and that still was not that bad! Remember, this is all just my opinion. Everyone rides differently.

 

I respect your opinion, but I completely disagree. I recently finished a two-week, eight-park road trip with Holiday World as one of the stops. Voyage is, in my opinion, as rough as everyone is making it out to be.

 

I rode it three times that day. First ride I took everything in, noticed the roughness, but was too focused on some of the other elements (layout, airtime, length, etc) from my first-ever ride on it to generate an educated opinion. The second ride was much different; the entire last half of the coaster was entirely unenjoyable for me because I had to firmly brace myself and ride as defensively as possible to minimize the amount of pain both the track and PTC trains were inflicting on my legs. I decided to ride it one last time before I left since I didn't know when I'd be back to Indiana; it was by far the worst ride of the three. I again could not enjoy the second half of the ride because every twist and turn jarred the lower half of my body. By the time we got to the brake run, I was struggling to regain control of my breath; the Voyage literally knocked the friggin' wind out of me. By that point, I had it. I got one final ride on Raven as a palate cleanser to remind me what a good wooden coaster should be and left.

 

The best way to describe Voyage (other than spine-rattingly rough) is "frustrating". I was so incredibly frustrated with my experience on this coaster. Whenever I reflect on our trip to HW and my rides on Voyage, all I can think about is how much squandered potential there is. Unfortunately, all of those twists, turns, hills and airtime are overshadowed by the bruises I had on my legs. If RMC or any other company can smoothen this thing out and make it enjoyable again (get rid of those damn trains, too), the Voyage could easily be one of my favorite wooden coasters (and this is coming from someone who lives a couple minutes from El Toro, my current #1). All it is now is frustrating.

[jk1w]

^Bruises are one thing, think about all the neck and back problems/injuries this thing has caused

 

Now granted like you said this thing has potential and is a wonderful looking coaster, but I agree it is just to much, I also felt it left me and probably many others exhausted.

 

The last time I was there, with my now ex gf; she loved the ride and had me re-ride the Voyage 9 times in a row cause the park was empty as it was the opening weekend. Worst decision ever, now I have neck problems I fear from to much bracing; but my other conclusion is on that note that I might have actually hurt my neck on the revolution ride of theirs by the Liberty Launch.

 

Anyway RMC, or who ever touches this coaster needs to smooth it out. Like others have said, the layout is perfectly fine and might be more fun with it smoothed out. Now I have rode on the Boss and Ninja (yes steel vs wood) many times at SFStL as they are my home town park, and so I know a little about rough as they can be on occasion.

[Jew]

You get what you pay for. Much like the larger CCI woodies have problems, it seems like the Gravity Group rides suffer from the same problems. When dealing with such a large structure, it probably isn't a good idea to use the cheaper southern yellow pine.

[DirkFunk]

Times change. If the Riverside Cyclone or Texas Cyclone suddenly appeared in prime year one form, internet enthusiasts would probably hate them because of the start-stop pacing and violence of the rides doesn't match what it means to be a smooth wood coaster in the year 2013. Some people aren't going to like Voyage and barring the ride being completely redone to remove a huge number of lateral forces, they can make the track of any substance and it won't matter as long as steel wheeled wood coaster cars are rolling over it and not bleeding speed like they would with poly wheels for the 2nd half. That doesn't make those people wrong.

 

The question earlier in thread about "what old time style wood coaster built over 75 ft wasn't a maintenance nightmare?" is a faulty one. It assumes that being a "maintenance nightmare" is the sort of definition that hasn't changed with time either. Most parks with a wood coaster have a corporate overlord and most have steel coasters as their primary drawing attraction now. Costs are going to be cut and what would be considered "standard" 50 years ago isn't going to be approached that way anymore. Maybe it is that those rides are obsolete, but then they aren't any more obsolete than rides without 85 different restraints, fun houses, dark rides without guns, and so on at the regional park level.

[ZeroGravity55]

The Voyage has to be one of the most controversial coasters out there. I can't think of one ride that causes more debate than this one. It's my favorite ride, but I understand why people hate it. I'm not gonna sit here and say it's smooth, I don't think there is anything the park can do to make it smooth, unless it's a huge remodel with topper track or something like that. Even if they did a full traditional re-track, those PTC's will tear it apart in 3 months. I do believe the park has a few options to fix the ride permanently and I think that is the path they should chose. The Voyage is still my favorite ride because I've had more good rides on it than I've had bad. I will say that most of those bad rides have come since 2010, but I've had none this year. I guess I'll find out how its's running in October.

[prozach626]

So I've read the last 10 pages of Voyage controversy, but has anyone heard anything about any 2014 additions? It seems like HW news is always difficult to find.

[mark549]

I've probably posted this before ...

 

I rode Voyage in May 2011 on a rainy day (off and on) and it was great, my favorite wooden coaster. (I haven't been on El Toro, yet.) Early in the season on a cool day probably made for a good day on it. There was a pothole on the track at the bottom of the first drop, where the ride is fastest. I've been on a few other wood coasters where the biggest bump was the bottom of the first drop, especially Timber Terror at Silverwood. I haven't been on Voyage at the end of a season on a hot dry day.

 

As for Riverside Cyclone and Texas Cyclone, those were great rides in their early days. Only went on them in their early days, I haven't been on "Riverside" Cyclone since it became Six Flags and then reprofiled. I've not heard anything good about Riverside Cyclone in recent years.

 

I love the idea of Topper Track for Voyage and hope that happens.

[Koasterking48]

So I've read the last 10 pages of Voyage controversy, but has anyone heard anything about any 2014 additions? It seems like HW news is always difficult to find.

It's because Holiday World is very good about keeping their projects under wraps, so you won't really know much about it till announcement day. People on TPR claim they have something big within a three year span, but I've not heard or read about that anywhere else but here. And these big projects will most likely not start till 2015 at the earliest.

[ArgoZ]

I remember the first time I rode the famous Voyage in 2009. All the airtime I heard about was true. It blew me away and quickly became one of my top woodies. I decided that El Toro was my favorite woodie only due to the slight roughness on the 2nd half of the Voyage. It's saddens me to hear that it has become much worse since then.

[Barge84]

I've been gone for the last couple of weeks with TPR, so I missed this Timberliner announcement. Just caught up on the thread and thought I'd throw my 2 cents in. Maybe I caught it on a good day, or like Robb told me, maybe it's because I was on Hades 360 a few days before, but I absolutely loved Voyage when I was there last Tuesday. I absolutely hate rough rides because they really bang my legs around (I'm 6'6"), and I can't say that I thought this ride was all that rough. There were a couple of rough parts near the end, but beyond that I was blown away with this ride. I rank it just behind El Toro for my favorite wooden coaster. I had a pretty negative opinion of the ride before I went on it, so I wonder if that had something to do with how much I liked it. I was really worried that it was going to beat the crap out of me, and when it didn't I was really happy. Hopefully Holiday World figures something out so they can keep this thing running as well as possible all the time.

[Vonni]

I've been gone for the last couple of weeks with TPR, so I missed this Timberliner announcement. Just caught up on the thread and thought I'd throw my 2 cents in. Maybe I caught it on a good day, or like Robb told me, maybe it's because I was on Hades 360 a few days before, but I absolutely loved Voyage when I was there last Tuesday. I absolutely hate rough rides because they really bang my legs around (I'm 6'6"), and I can't say that I thought this ride was all that rough. There were a couple of rough parts near the end, but beyond that I was blown away with this ride. I rank it just behind El Toro for my favorite wooden coaster. I had a pretty negative opinion of the ride before I went on it, so I wonder if that had something to do with how much I liked it. I was really worried that it was going to beat the crap out of me, and when it didn't I was really happy. Hopefully Holiday World figures something out so they can keep this thing running as well as possible all the time.

 

 

It was a breath of fresh air to read your post! I'm glad that you and I can share the same opinion of this amazing coaster!

[GayCoasterGuy]

Other than a kick in the gut back in 2011 (the pothole going up the 2nd hill) I would think the Voyage's overall aggressiveness - that was designed into the ride and there from the get get - is what many people don't like. Even in 2006, a double ride was almost too much for me. I need a rest after the ride.

 

When I'm in better shape, I can handle the ride better.

[ZeroGravity55]

So I've read the last 10 pages of Voyage controversy, but has anyone heard anything about any 2014 additions? It seems like HW news is always difficult to find.

 

Paula said on twitter that the park plans on talking about next year sometime next month.

 

And you aren't kidding, Screamscape didn't even have a story about the Timberliners yesterday.

[ZeroGravity55]

People on TPR claim they have something big within a three year span, but I've not heard or read about that anywhere else but here. And these big projects will most likely not start till 2015 at the earliest.

 

Nobody is making it up... http://www.courierpress.com/news/2012/oct/04/no-headline---holidayworld/

 

"We did a great big project for 2012, so there may not be a big project in 2013," Koch said. "But I promise you, there are big, big projects coming for 2014, 2015 and 2016. They are already on the drawing board, but I am sworn to secrecy."

 

Then again, Dan is not in charge, but I really don't think that is going to change any of the future plans.

[ajfelice]

The Voyage was absolutely spectacular during my visit this season! It currently stands as the greatest coaster I have ever ridden, even slightly better than El Toro. I couldn't find a "bad" seat as much as I tried. Rough is not a word I would use to describe The Voyage. Instead, I would definitely say it was forceful in which many transitions really threw you from side to side. However, by no means was The Voyage rough, jarring, shuffling, painful, etc. Comparing it to another amazing woodie, El Toro to me is just as aggressive in which it throws you from side to side in the second half of the ride similar to what Voyage does in the twisted section. The difference is that Voyage has that slight vibration all wooden coasters have compared to the steel coaster feeling El Toro has.

 

Yes, PTCs are not as innovative anymore, and they don't track like some of the modern trains such as Millennium Flyers, but they aren't that bad. Considering the durability PTCs are known to have, I'm maintaining hope that they can someday truly develop something that is durable, innovative, and less stressful on track. I know they have tried to develop a single bench design, and I wish they could go further or have someone at least test out the current single bench design. As of right now, Holiday World or any park with a wooden coaster is limited with options considering that Timberliners still need perfecting on the large scale, Millennium Flyers are only allowed to be used on GCI coasters, Gerstlauer hasn't had a new set of their trains installed on a major woodie in the USA in years, and RMC has yet to use one of their trains on a traditional wood track.

[ZeroGravity55]

^ Did you visit earlier in the year? In May, I thought the coaster was riding like it did in 2006 and 2007. When I was there at the end of June, it had gotten rougher, but I still got some great rides. August is usually the Voyage's worst month of every season. I've yet to ride it in the fall, but I'm going to this year.

[goatdan]

I was there this past Saturday. I was hoping the Timberliners might go live, so I checked Friday night to see if there was any word on them, and found the word they were removed. Missed the whole debate.

 

I try to avoid information about rides that I haven't been on as much as possible, and other then knowing that the Voyage was there, I had not watched any footage or really even looked at many pictures of it. I knew it's reputation for being somewhat rough, and I also knew visiting it at the end of the season would probably amplify that. I was even more concerned when I saw the steel structure, as I can't think of one wooden coaster with a steel structure that hasn't beat the living crud out of me, even when I was told they would be awesome. MegaZeph was probably the crowning achievement of that. I expected the ride to be miserable.

 

Instead, with three backseat rides throughout the day, I didn't find it very rough at all. The airtime was amazing, the laterals were all right and the triple drop in the tunnel was amazing. There were a couple of slightly jarring places after the triple drop, but I never felt like it was unrideable. I found the Legend to be much tougher as a ride because I had to really figure out how to brace myself side-to-side to not go slamming back and forth, and I definitely was riding that thing defensively. I wasn't with the Voyage.

 

Could it use some work? Yeah, but I find that the danger with any wooden coaster that is big. It clearly needs some help thanks to the constant work in the off-seasons, but it isn't currently the beat-the-junk outta you rides that I totally avoid.