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Holiday World (HW) Discussion Thread


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4 words. I Trust Holiday World.

 

I have 3 words. Rocky Mountain It.

 

I agree with this. I liked Voyage a lot in the spring of 2009, but was shocked at how rough it was in August 2010. Maybe Topper Track can help.

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Holiday World posted a clue as to next year's theme in their HWN Facebook group... I couldn't pass up the opportunity...

My tips are that you really don’t need two full days in the park if they’re running rides at full capacity, but they probably won’t be next year in time for the event given the vaccine schedule.

Many have seen our theme for HoliWood Nights 2021: The Wizard of Ahhh...hs. But did you know we're doing some major work on one of our wooden coasters in 2021? It's more than 500 feet of eight layers

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4 words. I Trust Holiday World.

 

I have 3 words. Rocky Mountain It.

 

totally agree... imagine how much more awesome the Voyage would be with a nice smooth steel topper track.

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I Won't lie I would LOVE to see it get the RMC Treatment! I just don't want to get my hopes up! Although it may be worth it due to maintenance issues alone! It's really hard to say whats going to happen. Honestly Holiday World may not even know what they plan to do yet!

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4 words. I Trust Holiday World.

 

I have 3 words. Rocky Mountain It.

 

Agreed.

 

While I loved the water park, the cleanliness & overall atmosphere of the park, it wouldn't be quite enough to get me back there in the near future (unless I was on a TPR road trip). RMC for the Voyage on the other hand would definitely seal the deal on a return trip down the road.

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Wasn't there rumors of Rocky Mountain's involvement a few years back when Holiday World's name was spotted on their client list? I believe Holiday World confirmed they did have some conversations but that nothing was coming from it... Sounds like a perfect time for some more conversations.

 

I can only imagine parks are taking notice that they can have Rocky Mountain come out and give new life to rides and save on future maintence vs buying an relatively unproven train design and as we have seen with Hades where track was replaced (final helix comes to mind) Timberliners don't stop the need for regular upkeep.

 

As I said in the Mt Olympus thread Hades trains seemed to bounce all over the place and the amount of plastic didn't seem to provide a solid design to absorb all the vibrations - I'm no engineer so I'm guessing here but I'm not sure a light design like Timberliners can handle the big forces.

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4 words. I Trust Holiday World.

 

I have 3 words. Rocky Mountain It.

Let me throw another bizarre curveball at this discussion....

 

Rocky Mountain is only one company, and every company has their capacity limits of how much work they can produce in one year.

 

We've seen other wood coaster companies offer new products including producing their own trains (Millennium Flyers, Timberliners, etc), new track features (90 degree turns, inversions, high-fives, etc), so how much longer do you think it might be until one of these companies starts taking a close look at what RMC is doing (and even Intamin for that matter), and starts to offer their own version of the topper track or even take a stab at RMC's track style?

 

Intamin has had great success with their wooden track style. Cordes not so much, but RMC has certainly risen out with a product that everyone really has fallen in love with.

 

Like it or not, at some point, some of the other wood coaster companies might have to follow suit with their own version. (I'm sure a little bit of the inspiration for what RMC is doing must have come from them building El Toro and T-Express?)

 

So it makes you wonder what will happen next...

 

--Robb "Isn't there a part of you that would LOVE to see all wooden coasters ride like an Intamin or RMC?" Alvey

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^ I think we're at the parks where parks have to go with one of the newer style wooden coasters from RMC or Intamin that can be a little crazier but don't require crazy maintenance...or you go with a GCI which are not as thrilling. The Dinn/CCI/TGG model of building crazy wooden coasters using older methods has now proven to be a long term failure.

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I could be wrong, but would adding topper track create too stiff of a riding surface? Remember, Voyage is steel-structured. Those woodies sometimes seem to amplify the potholes, etc., because there is not as much give in the structure under the track.

 

There are other traditional wood track solutions here. Voyage was glass-smooth the first year (most woodies are!), so there is the proof. There are also other trains for wood coasters out there... The PTCs on the ride are still semi-frankensteined designs (even thought they were originally built like they are) with the heavy ratchet lap bar mechanisms in them... very heavy cars.

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Is there a single old-school designed wooden coaster over 75 feet tall that hasn't become a maintenance issue or extremely rough?

 

Phoenix. With all the new hot coasters that have come and gone, Phoenix has never left the top 5 and pretty much any list.

 

And I'll have to say the CP Blue Streak was close-perfection as well, up until 1995. To the point there was rarely even new wood needed. Look at all the wacked-out extra supports on it now.

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Oh, I wouldn't be surprised if we see some new developments from other wooden coaster manufacturers at this year's IAPPA. Perhaps Gravity Group can put an inversion on a coaster that isn't trying to kill you with the rest of its layout.

 

In short, I think Holiday World has plenty of options when it comes to doing something to Voyage.

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I think we're at the point where the other wooden coaster companies are going to have to come up with their own track design to meet the modern demands of wooden roller coasters. If they don't, they're going to probably find themselves out of business.

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Is there a single old-school designed wooden coaster over 75 feet tall that hasn't become a maintenance issue or extremely rough?

 

Phoenix. With all the new hot coasters that have come and gone, Phoenix has never left the top 5 and pretty much any list.

I think you mis-understood Wes. I think he was asking if there have been any "modern" (like within the last 20 years) woodies that are over 75 feet tall that haven't become a maintenance nightmare for parks?

 

Phoenix doesn't really count as it was built in 1947.

 

--Robb "Unless I totally mis-read was Wes was saying..." Alvey

Edited by robbalvey
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^Ahhh... gotcha. Sorry for the misunderstanding. I was going to say Cyclops, but even that ride has been neglected to the point of pothole city (on the big drop anyway.)

 

^^Newer woodies have really pushed things in terms of speed and intensity of forces. Why not stick with great old designs - Phoenix, Thunderbolt - heck, those rides are ancient, run GREAT and almost EVERYONE who goes to those parks LOVES those rides. Remember, coasters aren't always designed with coaster nerds preferences in mind... Personally, I love the old designs ... and you don't have to worry about the necessity to staple you in a seat. The forces are reasonable and you get TRUE air time (as opposed to "uplift forces" - see El Toro.)

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Also....

Voyage was glass-smooth the first year

And no. No it wasn't. I rode Voyage about 6 weeks after it opened and it was rough even then. Sure, nowhere NEAR as bad as it was when I rode it in 2010, but even opening year I couldn't do more than 3 rides back to back without having to take a break.

 

That ride was NEVER "glass-smooth", I'm sorry.

 

--Robb "Unless your basis for comparison is Hades 360..." Alvey

Edited by robbalvey
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There are still some traditional woodies that I'd consider very smooth... Jack Rabbit, Phoenix, even SFGAm's Viper was running insanely smooth. Voyage was never smooth. It was always insanely "aggressive" and fairly rough in spots. Yes, the smoothest rides on it I ever took was during that opening year and those rides only seemed to degrade over the years.

 

It went from being a coaster I could ride 2-3 times in a row a couple times a day, to a ride that I wished I hadn't even ridden once during a visit to the park.

 

--Robb "Raven is still my favorite coaster at Holiday World!" Alvey

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This may come off as blasphemy:

 

With newer engineering programs creating more aggressive and incredible rides, wood just has its limits. The longest lasting wood coasters were simple out and backs, with minimal curves, except for a handful. Everybody wants to go back and ride the Crystal Beach Cyclone, but I'm sure after 3 weeks of operating, it was as rough as all hell.

 

I really think wood coaster companies should stick with more flowing and graceful designs (Shivering Timbers, Silver Comet, Lightning Racer) than super-aggressive circuits like The Boss, Medusa and others in that category, because they may be great the first year or two, but you can't keep re-tracking them every year.

 

Hopefully train design will continue to evolve into better tracking, more cushioned seating, but that is to be seen. Long gone are the days of NAD trains with big cushey seats that soak up the brunt of the roughness.

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Thanks for the responses. I was just wondering since the only wooden coaster I've ridden with Millennium Flyers was American Thunder. But SFSTL definitely keeps that track smooth, so that is probably why I like them so much.

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I like to see the park purchase a set of RMC trains for the ride and start putting on topper track a little at a time. I think the the earliest will see anything done will be 2015, but whatever the park chooses to do, I'll be supportive and understanding.

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^ To be fair, no one knows if RMC trains are a solution either. There is only one set of them on a ride that was specifically designed with them in mind. Everyone thought GCI trains would "fix" Wildcat and Gwazi, and they didn't really help (other than make the trains a bit more comfortable), and Timberliners didn't help the rough sections of Hades.

 

BUT. Both of those styles of trains work AMAZING for rides that were designed with them in mind.

 

I really think that if a park wants to REALLY fix a ride, they need to do a full re-track over ONE off season, and then maybe try putting on a different train. But who's to say that new train won't tear of the ride just as much as a PTC and in 3 years you'll wind up having to do a complete re-track again?

Edited by robbalvey
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