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SeaWorld Orlando (SWO) Discussion Thread

P. 264: New Howl-O-Scream house, show & bars announced!

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I respect their business decision and hope it works out for the Sea World parks in the long run, but it feels a little like if Disney announced they were going to phase out Mickey Mouse.

 

Except Mickey Mouse is a fictional character and these whales are live creatures in captivity. Not a great analogy. However large we think these pools are, these whales lives are the equivalent to a person being born in a house and then living the rest of their life in one room of that house. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of PETA and thought that Blackfish was ridiculously heavy handed. However, as a compassionate human, it is always a little sad to see animals meant for vast spaces confined to a relatively small living environment.

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I respect their business decision and hope it works out for the Sea World parks in the long run, but it feels a little like if Disney announced they were going to phase out Mickey Mouse.

 

Except Mickey Mouse is a fictional character and these whales are live creatures in captivity. Not a great analogy. However large we think these pools are, these whales lives are the equivalent to a person being born in a house and then living the rest of their life in one room of that house. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of PETA and thought that Blackfish was ridiculously heavy handed. However, as a compassionate human, it is always a little sad to see animals meant for vast spaces confined to a relatively small living environment.

 

I think its more reasonable to see it as the Orcas are becoming the Mickey Mouse. In the hopefully long future, it will just be people in whale costumes in a water themed Disney park basically.

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However large we think these pools are, these whales lives are the equivalent to a person being born in a house and then living the rest of their life in one room of that house. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of PETA and thought that Blackfish was ridiculously heavy handed. However, as a compassionate human, it is always a little sad to see animals meant for vast spaces confined to a relatively small living environment.

 

The problem is this logic can be applied to any aquarium anywhere in the world, and to zoos as well by extension. May as well shut them all down.

 

This announcement by SeaWorld is a victory for dishonesty, for demagoguery, for propaganda, and the ignorance of future generations. Now nobody's going be able to make any real connection at all with killer whales and marine life without binoculars and a charter boat in a scant few regions of the world, or via the internet. Watching a YouTube video or educational film is no substitute for seeing the real thing with your own eyes, but I guess that's not important anymore. Guess the activists will be happy when killer whales' reputation reverts back to the days when they were feared and hunted.

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However large we think these pools are, these whales lives are the equivalent to a person being born in a house and then living the rest of their life in one room of that house. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of PETA and thought that Blackfish was ridiculously heavy handed. However, as a compassionate human, it is always a little sad to see animals meant for vast spaces confined to a relatively small living environment.

 

The problem is this logic can be applied to any aquarium anywhere in the world, and to zoos as well by extension. May as well shut them all down.

 

This announcement by SeaWorld is a victory for dishonesty, for demagoguery, for propaganda, and the ignorance of future generations. Now nobody's going be able to make any real connection at all with killer whales and marine life without binoculars and a charter boat in a scant few regions of the world, or via the internet. Watching a YouTube video or educational film is no substitute for seeing the real thing with your own eyes, but I guess that's not important anymore. Guess the activists will be happy when killer whales' reputation reverts back to the days when they were feared and hunted.

 

This times 10000000000000000000000000x well said.

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This pretty much sucks.

 

I love learning about animals, their habitats and personalities...and have ever since I was a kid.

 

Heck, my dream as a kid was to become a veterinarian until my parents broke the news that they couldn't support the eight years of college that I would have to attend to become one. And then when they said eight more years of school, I was like, "Ummm, no thank you...I'll just go to zoos and places like Sea World and admire them there."

 

Yes, there have been some zoos that I have been to where I felt compassion & sadness for animals because their cages & roaming areas seemed just too small. But in the case of Sea World, that wasn't the case at all.

 

Heck even Marineland has a pretty big exhibit for their killer whales since they quit doing those shows many moons ago. But it's almost like the whales were put out to pasture to die or something...they really didn't look as "happy" during our last visit as what I remember seeing when they were entertaining people and getting real human interaction. I think that the whales actually like entertaining and being spoiled by their trainers. Who wouldn't crave that extra attention versus just swimming around a big pool and getting fed a couple times a day?

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The problem is this logic can be applied to any aquarium anywhere in the world, and to zoos as well by extension. May as well shut them all down.

 

This announcement by SeaWorld is a victory for dishonesty, for demagoguery, for propaganda, and the ignorance of future generations. Now nobody's going be able to make any real connection at all with killer whales and marine life without binoculars and a charter boat in a scant few regions of the world, or via the internet. Watching a YouTube video or educational film is no substitute for seeing the real thing with your own eyes, but I guess that's not important anymore. Guess the activists will be happy when killer whales' reputation reverts back to the days when they were feared and hunted.

 

 

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The problem is this logic can be applied to any aquarium anywhere in the world, and to zoos as well by extension. May as well shut them all down.

 

This announcement by SeaWorld is a victory for dishonesty, for demagoguery, for propaganda, and the ignorance of future generations. Now nobody's going be able to make any real connection at all with killer whales and marine life without binoculars and a charter boat in a scant few regions of the world, or via the internet. Watching a YouTube video or educational film is no substitute for seeing the real thing with your own eyes, but I guess that's not important anymore. Guess the activists will be happy when killer whales' reputation reverts back to the days when they were feared and hunted.

 

This x Infinity. Seeing SeaWorld cave in is really disheartening.

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The problem is this logic can be applied to any aquarium anywhere in the world, and to zoos as well by extension. May as well shut them all down.

 

 

I could see this being precedent setting for sure. It definitely sucks.

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I respect their business decision and hope it works out for the Sea World parks in the long run, but it feels a little like if Disney announced they were going to phase out Mickey Mouse.

 

Except Mickey Mouse is a fictional character and these whales are live creatures in captivity. Not a great analogy. However large we think these pools are, these whales lives are the equivalent to a person being born in a house and then living the rest of their life in one room of that house. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of PETA and thought that Blackfish was ridiculously heavy handed. However, as a compassionate human, it is always a little sad to see animals meant for vast spaces confined to a relatively small living environment.

 

My biggest problem with that argument is that we are destroying their habitats with pollution, fishing, global warming, etc. so captivity where research and education could continue might actually be in their best interest....

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The times they are a changin (for elephants, too!)

 

Well, I had a great time at SeaWorld during my visit this year, and I imagine that I'll be going to many SeaWorlds for years to come. Clean parks, friendly staff, lots of great things to see, many fun facts to be learned, etc, etc....but I'm on the fence a bit with the orcas. The education and rehabilitation aspects of SeaWorld are great, but the orca shows reminded me of the circus or a fireworks show -- spectacle for its own sake. The human-centric/dominion tricks just don't sit well with me. I love and support education blended with rehabilitation, and SeaWorld delivers plenty of it, but I never liked the spectacle attractions. I also don't care for the argument, "But where will I go to satisfy my curiosities for performing sea creatures!?" That's about as unnatural as it gets.

 

When I see a turtle in a large display case, I think to myself, "Okay, that turtle is totally tricked and seems completely unimpeded to live contently here. It has no clue that SeaWorld isn't the Amazon riverbank." On the flip-side, if a mammal like an orca is experiencing day-to-day frustration and a lower overall life expectancy than those found in the wild, I don't think it's outrageous to question captivity. I know that there is plenty of PR muck that SeaWorld is also taking into account, and a lot of it is unfair (I'm not a Blackfish fan), but I just want what's best for the orcas. If that's captivity, okay. If that's stopping the current policies as they're doing, I'm okay with that, too.

Edited by Samuel
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However large we think these pools are, these whales lives are the equivalent to a person being born in a house and then living the rest of their life in one room of that house. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of PETA and thought that Blackfish was ridiculously heavy handed. However, as a compassionate human, it is always a little sad to see animals meant for vast spaces confined to a relatively small living environment.

 

The problem is this logic can be applied to any aquarium anywhere in the world, and to zoos as well by extension. May as well shut them all down.

 

Not to be dismissive, but...so??? There are a lot of educational and conservational aspects at a lot of zoos and aquariums, but it still does not change the fact that these are animals that have been taken out of or never lived in their natural habitats and are largely there to serve the curiosity/entertainment of humans.

 

Now nobody's going be able to make any real connection at all with killer whales and marine life without binoculars and a charter boat in a scant few regions of the world, or via the internet. Watching a YouTube video or educational film is no substitute for seeing the real thing with your own eyes, but I guess that's not important anymore. Guess the activists will be happy when killer whales' reputation reverts back to the days when they were feared and hunted.

 

To me this is an incredibly selfish way of thinking. What kind of real connection are you able to get with an orca whale in a gigantic arena with thousands of other people? One could also argue that these "scant few regions of the world" where you can see orcas or other whales in the wild are as or more accessible than 3 land locked SeaWorld locations in the USA. Also, if you think what you are seeing at SeaWorld or any zoo/aquarium is seeing "the real thing" than I'm not sure what to say... I have seen many shows on tv or youtube that are far more insightful and educational than anything I've seen at a zoo or aquarium.

 

My biggest problem with that argument is that we are destroying their habitats with pollution, fishing, global warming, etc. so captivity where research and education could continue might actually be in their best interest....

 

While I don't disagree that there are significant issues with the way our world is being consumed by humans, I'm don't think this is a very good argument. With your logic, you might as well say that humans would be better off in solitary confinement in jail. It would remove issues of violence, hunger, health care, etc..

 

I think there is a place for zoos, aquariums, and SeaWorld, but to act like the removal of the orca shows is the end of happiness as we know it is incredibly selfish and short sighted. I love all of the research and rehabilitation SeaWorld does, but thousands of people aren't sitting in an arena to watch science and research. The patrons are sitting in the arenas to be entertained and splashed by mammoth creatures living in captivity.

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I am heartbroken by this news I love killer whales and I never would have had the appreciation I do if it weren't for seeing them at Marine World as a kid. Someday my children's children may never know what a real orca looks like. And why care about something you've never seen?

 

Plus, our oceans are seriously in danger and lots of wild marine mammals (including orcas) have been starving, beaching, and dying. Someday we may live in a world where whales no longer exist or are so rare that no one ever sees them. I know that's a pretty fire and brimstone thing to say, but sometimes I think a lot of animals we see in zoos may no longer be alive in the wild, and the only hope for survival of the species is in zoos (I feel like there have actually been a few cases of this already?) Orcas are not an endangered species by any stretch but I feel like this could be the step to more and more animals being targeted and zoos slowly falling apart (except possibly local rescue species, like the turtles or manatees).

 

I also feel betrayed that they seemingly caved in too easily. I have no idea why they would do this after they said they were going to fight, and they taught us all the things to reply to people saying we should cease orca captivity. The only thing I could think of is that with Tilikum's impending death and no further capturing of whales, the gene pool might be getting a little too small for further breeding programs. I know when we asked them they said they share orca sperm with other facilities around the world to ensure no in-breeding. But it seems that can only go for so long. Maybe it was a combination of that and general giving into the pressure?

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I also feel betrayed that they seemingly caved in too easily.

 

I'd love to job shadow the PR employees at SeaWorld, my goodness, their jobs are tougher than a two-dollar steak. Evolving cultural expectations have turned up the pressure, and I think SeaWorld tried to hold its position as long as it could. Meanwhile, there will continue to be voices out there citing betrayal on the premise that what SeaWorld is doing isn't enough. If you have a good time at the parks, I hope you don't turn your back on them to spite the difficult position in which they unwittingly found themselves.

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I am heartbroken by this news I love killer whales and I never would have had the appreciation I do if it weren't for seeing them at Marine World as a kid. Someday my children's children may never know what a real orca looks like. And why care about something you've never seen?

 

Plus, our oceans are seriously in danger and lots of wild marine mammals (including orcas) have been starving, beaching, and dying. Someday we may live in a world where whales no longer exist or are so rare that no one ever sees them. I know that's a pretty fire and brimstone thing to say, but sometimes I think a lot of animals we see in zoos may no longer be alive in the wild, and the only hope for survival of the species is in zoos (I feel like there have actually been a few cases of this already?) Orcas are not an endangered species by any stretch but I feel like this could be the step to more and more animals being targeted and zoos slowly falling apart (except possibly local rescue species, like the turtles or manatees).

 

I also feel betrayed that they seemingly caved in too easily. I have no idea why they would do this after they said they were going to fight, and they taught us all the things to reply to people saying we should cease orca captivity. The only thing I could think of is that with Tilikum's impending death and no further capturing of whales, the gene pool might be getting a little too small for further breeding programs. I know when we asked them they said they share orca sperm with other facilities around the world to ensure no in-breeding. But it seems that can only go for so long. Maybe it was a combination of that and general giving into the pressure?

 

Perhaps. The betrayal is very real. They caved in way too soon. I know they've been fighting Blackfish for a while to reclaim their positive reputation but I agree it was way too soon to give in. They JUST SAID they were going to take legal action against the California Coastal Commission.

 

Like people have stated, It's going to start with the Orca's and next the HSUS is going to start pressuring SeaWorld to start phasing out other animals. There's proof of that floating around on Facebook. The HSUS admitted it. I really really hope Joel Manby knows what he's doing and they have some fantastic plans for the future that will still draw in crowds. SeaWorld has A LOT to offer, but the Orca's are the forefront of the company I feel.

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At least I will be able to bring the kids to seaworld once more this summer before they are gone.

They will still have whales for years to come, they have long lifespans and one is pregnant now. They aren't releasing the ones they have now, it'll be decades.

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At least I will be able to bring the kids to seaworld once more this summer before they are gone.

You know, they are stop mating them. They arent packing them up and shipping them away in a month. I think you have plenty summers to still enjoy them.

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At least I will be able to bring the kids to seaworld once more this summer before they are gone.

You know, they are stop mating them. They arent packing them up and shipping them away in a month. I think you have plenty summers to still enjoy them.

 

Well, they technically can't stop the whales from naturally mating, unless they purposely segregate them, which I can't think of any humane reason to do so. They will however, stop artificially stimulating the sire named Tillikum, stop collecting his sperm and stop inseminating females Orcas around the country. Somehow when you spell it all out instead of using the term "breeding", it doesn't seem like a bad idea now does it?

 

On a personal note. I have supported Seaworld and still do defend them against false accusations. Not every thing they have done or do I have to agree with. The biggest change of my mindset really came after experiencing these creatures in the wild. It really does change your thinking about captivity. Orcas are so intelligent, they will come right up to your boat to say hi. It's one of the most powerful, emotional experiences to meet them. I understand the benefits and current needs of captivity and the whales should not be released. Capturing and now breeding are over, it's the right thing to do.

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Not to be dismissive, but...so??? There are a lot of educational and conservational aspects at a lot of zoos and aquariums, but it still does not change the fact that these are animals that have been taken out of or never lived in their natural habitats and are largely there to serve the curiosity/entertainment of humans.

 

What kind of real connection are you able to get with an orca whale in a gigantic arena with thousands of other people? One could also argue that these "scant few regions of the world" where you can see orcas or other whales in the wild are as or more accessible than 3 land locked SeaWorld locations in the USA. Also, if you think what you are seeing at SeaWorld or any zoo/aquarium is seeing "the real thing" than I'm not sure what to say... I have seen many shows on tv or youtube that are far more insightful and educational than anything I've seen at a zoo or aquarium.

 

Again, by this logic, we may as well shut down all zoos and aquariums worldwide because captivity is evil and inhumane, and just educate future generations with TV and YouTube. Idiocracy here we come!

 

I'm pretty sure anybody who visits SeaWorld or a zoo and sees an animal understands full well that, while they may be seeing a real giraffe, elephant, killer whale, etc... these captive specimens are not indicative of their counterparts in the wild. That's not the issue. The issue is even though we know the animals in the zoo don't behave like wild animals, for good reason, there's still a lot that can be learned from them, and the next generation can be inspired to care more and want to learn more about them just by seeing them live with their own eyes. TV/web videos are cold, distant, easily dismissed, generally a poor substitute for the real thing. Videos are better than nothing, but there's a HUGE difference between seeing these animals on a screen and seeing them live.

 

Yes, children can be wowed and inspired in a stadium with thousands of people. It's a real shame that future generations now won't have that experience.

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Still after reading the above, I believe SeaWorld are doing the right thing. Times have changed and there should be no substitute to seeing animals in the wild.

 

I visited SeaWorld twice, around a decade ago, and I was amazed by the displays. However we all know this was entertainment, not real wildlife (yes im sure some of my entrance fee helped wildlife projects; please see the hypocrisy of this. Even the fact that I was willing to pay and my current opinion is also counted).

 

I'm sure some people reading this blog have had the chance to see whales in the wild and this hands down is far more spectacular than a creature swimming in circles, splashing an audience etc. The argument of them living longer just proves that it is not supposed to be. Would you want to live to 200 but stuck within a test tube for that amount of time? I exaggerated but hopefully you see my point.

 

Some environmentalist groups are utter cretins and attention seeking c*nts, but this should not shadow the fact that there are ways of learning and appreciating nature without removing them, from nature.

 

I respect the notion of SeaWorld's commitment to then natural world and this goes without saying; I hope this continues.

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Not to be dismissive, but...so??? There are a lot of educational and conservational aspects at a lot of zoos and aquariums, but it still does not change the fact that these are animals that have been taken out of or never lived in their natural habitats and are largely there to serve the curiosity/entertainment of humans.

 

What kind of real connection are you able to get with an orca whale in a gigantic arena with thousands of other people? One could also argue that these "scant few regions of the world" where you can see orcas or other whales in the wild are as or more accessible than 3 land locked SeaWorld locations in the USA. Also, if you think what you are seeing at SeaWorld or any zoo/aquarium is seeing "the real thing" than I'm not sure what to say... I have seen many shows on tv or youtube that are far more insightful and educational than anything I've seen at a zoo or aquarium.

 

Again, by this logic, we may as well shut down all zoos and aquariums worldwide because captivity is evil and inhumane, and just educate future generations with TV and YouTube. Idiocracy here we come!

 

I'm pretty sure anybody who visits SeaWorld or a zoo and sees an animal understands full well that, while they may be seeing a real giraffe, elephant, killer whale, etc... these captive specimens are not indicative of their counterparts in the wild. That's not the issue. The issue is even though we know the animals in the zoo don't behave like wild animals, for good reason, there's still a lot that can be learned from them, and the next generation can be inspired to care more and want to learn more about them just by seeing them live with their own eyes. TV/web videos are cold, distant, easily dismissed, generally a poor substitute for the real thing. Videos are better than nothing, but there's a HUGE difference between seeing these animals on a screen and seeing them live.

 

Yes, children can be wowed and inspired in a stadium with thousands of people. It's a real shame that future generations now won't have that experience.

 

I would suggest, if you are keen on animal welfare, go see them in wild. Whether it's a stone fish, great white or an orca. That will teach kids about how life is. Don't sugar coat it.

 

Are zoos next? Then nature reserves? Sadly humans have impacted so much on nature that animals do not have their habitats anymore. But I do not believe that capturing them and strolling them in front of kids is the answer but part of the problem.

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