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Cedar Point (CP) Discussion Thread

P. 1989: Wicked Twister's permanent closure announced!

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WHAT?!?! There is no tunnel!?! How could Cedar Point?! Don't they know every good coaster MUST have a tunnel.
(me, being sarcastic...)

 

...The lack of a tunnel, water splash, or theming in general kinda kills the excitement of this coaster for me.

 

Well... That didn't take long.

Edited by DoinItForTheFame
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So I could be wrong, but to the people complaining about the 10 vs 8 seats, it might be we've seen the end of 10 across trains. Griffon actually had a fair deal of problems with the additional two seats, including a broken lift chain the year after opening. Notice that no coaster since has had 10 across. Just because Griffon has stayed in operation doesn't mean that 8 wasn't determined to be more optimal and that's what we'll see from now on. I'm more shocked not to see a dual load station like SheiKra. A massive park like CP really struck me as a place for a dual loader.

 

Anyhow this looks fantastic, and I'm looking forward to riding it. Being tall I'm also in the camp of preferring the old OTRs to the new vest ones, as the vests I find uncomfortable and hurt my shoulders, but I honestly don't care so much as to stay off an otherwise dynamite ride.

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Or has anyone thought that since the new restraints are in effect, the clearance envelope of these trains may be the same as a 10 seat train. Therefore, a 10 seat train with these restraints could potentially have caused for a whole new support system.

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Or has anyone thought that since the new restraints are in effect, the clearance envelope of these trains may be the same as a 10 seat train. Therefore, a 10 seat train with these restraints could potentially have caused for a whole new support system.

 

I think it's a safe assumption that this is the reason behind the 8-across rows. The new hardware likely just doesn't fit with the 10-across version, and Cedar Point chose guest comfort (though many of you will cry foul on that one) over capacity.

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I'm not typically one to be a Debby Downer, but this is pretty underwhelming announcement. I don't care what kind of "records" this thing breaks, no matter how you look at it, Sheikra did most of what this coaster does 10 years ago. The lack of a tunnel, water splash, or theming in general kinda kills the excitement of this coaster for me.
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Or has anyone thought that since the new restraints are in effect, the clearance envelope of these trains may be the same as a 10 seat train. Therefore, a 10 seat train with these restraints could potentially have caused for a whole new support system.

 

I think it's a safe assumption that this is the reason behind the 8-across rows. The new hardware likely just doesn't fit with the 10-across version, and Cedar Point chose guest comfort (though many of you will cry foul on that one) over capacity.

 

Not exactly. Just by looking, I can tell that Valravn's train is about 1 seat narrower on each side than Griffon. I could be wrong though, as it's a guesstimate at best. If I'm right, then I'm not sure why they went with 8 across vest trains.

 

Also, am I the only tall guy who actually really likes the vests and hates the OTSR's? I'm beginning to notice a trend here

Edited by Coaster Hero
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I'm going a bit out on a limb and saying the reason there is no tunnel is because of the parks proximity to Lake Erie and the high water table. While a tunnel wouldn't be impossible, it would likely cost too much money to be worthwhile. Plus, I can't think of anything at CP that goes under ground.

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I'm a huge fan of the vest restraints for this ride. One of the biggest issues I have with the original B&M OTSRs was the fact that it was very difficult for an entire row to have their hands up because there is little space between the huge restraints. The new B&Ms are comfy, have better hand holds and don't even allow for head banging. Really think they'll work great when you're hanging there for 4 seconds over the first drop.

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Not exactly. Just by looking, I can tell that Valravn's train is about 1 seat narrower on each side than Griffon. I could be wrong though, as it's a guesstimate at best. If I'm right, then I'm not sure why they went with 8 across vest trains.

If you're right, then I'll chock it up to aerodynamics - the thing sits what, 250 feet from the water? Gatekeeper runs insanely slow when it's windy, and while those trains might be wider they're not nearly as flat-fronted. Granted, that measurement is just based off of an animation and not the train itself - for comparison, are Banshee's trains any wider than the old ones?

 

I'm going a bit out on a limb and saying the reason there is no tunnel is because of the parks proximity to Lake Erie and the high water table. While a tunnel wouldn't be impossible, it would likely cost too much money to be worthwhile. Plus, I can't think of anything at CP that goes under ground.

The water table underneath doesn't stop them from landscaping up instead of down.

Edited by coasterfreak101
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I'm going a bit out on a limb and saying the reason there is no tunnel is because of the parks proximity to Lake Erie and the high water table. While a tunnel wouldn't be impossible, it would likely cost too much money to be worthwhile. Plus, I can't think of anything at CP that goes under ground.

 

I never seriously expected an underground tunnel for this coaster, or any other at CP for that very reason. A raised enclosure that the drop went into, however, was a perfectly reasonable hope for a Dive Coaster, based on many other models. And it totally could have worked right there (who knows, maybe it will be there in reality), instead of being open like it is. Whatever, though... It'll still be an amazing experience, even without that, and being able to look down on people standing on the midway, gawking, before dropping straight towards them, will be cool too! (I'm definitely thinking an edge seat on the front right side might be the money seat on this baby! )

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I don't think the new restraints create a wider envelope, and if they do, it's marginal. Otherwise how could rides like Banshee have them? Are the banshee trains actually wider? Even if the seats were a tiny bit wider, I don't think it would account for 2 peoples worth of seats coming off. I honestly think that the reasons for 8 over 10 are a lot more to do with operational forces on the structure, and nothing more. Doing a zero G roll on a train this wide is a crazy problem, with g-forces much harder to deal with on the outer seats than I think people are giving it credit, which is probably why until now, every DM with one has been 6 across instead of 8. And again, Griffon has had some pretty major issues crop up both in design and since opening as a result of being 10 wide. (Also, fun fact, the reason Griffon went floorless is because the track couldn't handle the weight of a 10 wide floored train. It wasn't originally supposed to be floorless).

 

The weight and stress on the structure of dive machines are known issues. The 10 wide being a problem is a known issue. Unless someone has measurements that prove that Banshee is wider than normal inverts, or that Vlaravn is as wide as Griffon, I'm going to assume that this is not the reason behind 8 over 10.

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I'm super excited for this addition. Great way to round out the coaster lineup!

 

I was initially a little surprised at the 8-across seating as well, but it makes sense considering the presence of the new vest restraints (which is a MAJOR plus). Since these seats are a bit wider, It seems the 8-across is to account for the extra space they'll take without needing to manufacture an even larger track design to accommodate 10-across new-style seats.

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Oh, and I just want to put this out there - Whoever put the idea into people's heads that they were changing the name... dumbest person ever!!! lol

 

 

I think the Dive Machine is the best ride that B&M currently makes, so I'm always pleased when a new one is announced. I haven't ridden a bad one yet.

 

I agree with both of these.

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I think the Dive Machine is the best ride that B&M currently makes, so I'm always pleased when a new one is announced. I haven't ridden a bad one yet.

 

Totally agree, Griffon is one of my favorite coasters and Valravn looks even better. CP has such a wide variety of coasters and this dive machine will add another unique coaster experience. I'm actually surprised that we haven't seen more dive coasters in the US, so maybe now we'll see some more pop up.

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