S&S Sansei Discussion Thread

^ The guy from S&S at WCB said the cushioned arms would give the ride a "floating" feeling, like you were flying. I'd also imagine it would help smooth out the ride.

I don't think it looks like an engineering nightmare at all. The concept is relatively simple. There's not anywhere near as much going on in these trains as there is on a 4th dimension ride like X2.

I honestly don't understand the negative take some people have on this idea. Maybe it's not the next great thing, but at least they're promoting new ideas. With a nice terrain - hugging layout, I think this could be a great ride.

My only concern with this concept is ride capacity. Assuming eight riders per car, and only running, say four or five, it wouldn't eat many people per hour.

However, if they did a design with, say, a three-car-train, capacity per vehicle would be at 24 (almost a standard coaster train), and running two or three trains would work.

Honestly, it looks like fun.

Eric

Mechanical this ride will be a lot simpler then X. There are cars that use air bag suspensions similar to the ride in that animation. How often do car suspensions need to be fixed?

As for the wait, while when people are in the ride the cars will definitely way more but the wait of the car will be heavy enough to keep the ride stable enough. 4 people at 200 pound each is 800 pounds the coater car will probably easily be double that if not more.

To me, it looks likes it's going to feel like an Arrow Suspended coaster.

Space Mountain is a lower capacity ride at Magic Kingdom, and that's why they have two sides, but how much capacity does one side get? They have tons of trains for one side, and they have a seperate exit platform. They only have 6 people per trains which doesn't seem like a lot, but I would say that only one side does a lot better than a mouse coaster.

Add some blocks on this thing, and have more trains, and you will get a good capacity coaster. If you send one train out at a time, this ride will take forever to get on.

Well I don't think it'd necessarily need a lot of restraints cuz unless the ride malfunctions and the axels don't let the cars rotate automatically (causing the cars to turn upsidedown) they'd probably just need a seatbelt and a lapbar which doesn't take that long to load. Plus if it's a longer more terrain using ride that means it probably wouldn't be that hard to get cars in & out.

Please Magic Mountain...Don't.

I don't see why people are thinking this is a bad idea overall...

The video is nowt but ideas thrown together in order to make an interesting and a rather cool looking ride overall...

Thus being a prototype means that they can easily change it to have more blocks and what-not...

I see loading and un-loading the two sides being more of an issue because of the only 3 people per side though...

Plus they could have a duel station. . .

I personally think this looks REALLY fun. At first I thought it looked dumb, but after seeing the POV I can imagine it being really surprisingly fun.

And on the functionality thing, it doesnt look too bad to me. Arrow Suspendeds use suspension on their trains and they dont have insane maitenance costs.

If they could find a way to release those cars on the side at a low slow point, so they can continue down a log flume ride, that would be awesome. I mean, the cars already look like they belong in a log flume already.

The empty Eagle carrier would just continue on to a station where two boats are already waiting, attach them, and go on out. With enough boats, it could help capacity out, as long as the coaster part isn't too long.

That would probably be a maintenance nightmare though.

Please Magic Mountain...Don't.

LOL! Best post ever!

Seriously now though, the concept I feel is very cool. Could be great for a smaller park in my opinion.

Though honestly seeing the concept I dunno why but I can see parks like Heide and Thorpe going after this idea.

Two other more American oriented parks I can see this going to are Holiday World in the 4th of July section as "American Eagle" or something. Or even Knoebels.

Devious last second thought. Why not Bonbon land as a bird pooping on many people coaster. I mean isn't Bonbon land messed up enough as it is?

We request the honor of your presence for the blessed union of:

X2 and Flume Zoom

at the 1st S&S Arrow Chapel of Love and Creative Developement

this Saturday at 2pm with reception to follow. Punch and Pie will be served.

A curious concept in deed.

For what they are displaying so far, it just seems like a cross between a suspended coaster and a mine train. I think it could be a real hit with families, but I can't imagine them doing too much to make it a 'thrill' coaster. Even if they did, I don't see them exploding in popularity any time soon. Maybe average success.

I personally don't really care for coming up with really innovative riding concepts like this. I really wish companies would stick with what currently exists. There is still so much that can be done with the existing styles. Look at how much has been done with the flying concept... not a whole lot. And honestly, I feel like most companies will find greater success if they stick to innovative layouts and improvements of current styles. Think about the concepts that have seen the most popularity in the last several years. Most are simply improvements on the standard sit-down concept, like improved launched coasters (Intamin Accelerators), vertical and beyond vertical drops (Intamin, B&M Dive Machines, Gerstlauer Euro-Fighters, Maurer Sohne X-Car), and arguably floorless coasters (B&M).

I understand why companies want to come up with new concepts. After all, it is a business and they all want to create the next big thing. However, it seems like the most successful companies (and most popular rides) are just improving current styles.

I really just yawned watching that video. The ride doesn't look like it'd be worth going through all the trouble to design, and another S&S Fail like said abouve. And when that thing gets rough like every other S&S, owch.

For what they are displaying so far, it just seems like a cross between a suspended coaster and a mine train. I think it could be a real hit with families, but I can't imagine them doing too much to make it a 'thrill' coaster. Even if they did, I don't see them exploding in popularity any time soon. Maybe average success.

 

I personally don't really care for coming up with really innovative riding concepts like this. I really wish companies would stick with what currently exists. There is still so much that can be done with the existing styles. Look at how much has been done with the flying concept... not a whole lot. And honestly, I feel like most companies will find greater success if they stick to innovative layouts and improvements of current styles. Think about the concepts that have seen the most popularity in the last several years. Most are simply improvements on the standard sit-down concept, like improved launched coasters (Intamin Accelerators), vertical and beyond vertical drops (Intamin, B&M Dive Machines, Gerstlauer Euro-Fighters, Maurer Sohne X-Car), and arguably floorless coasters (B&M & Intamin).

 

I understand why companies want to come up with new concepts. After all, it is a business and they all want to create the next big thing. However, it seems like the most successful companies (and most popular rides) are just improving current styles.

I disagree with you. I think that part of the fun of the industry is seeing what new concepts manufacturers and designers can come up with. Granted not all concepts and prototypes can, will and should be built, but having the ingenuity to put something out there that's different gets people like myself interested. We wouldnt have gotten flyers, suspendeds, inverteds, etc if these "gimmicks" weren't tried. Now, do I think this will be the next great thrill ride sensation, no. Neither was the ArrowBatic or the ThrustAir coasters, or many other concepts, but it got people talking and stirred a buzz.

After watching the video again, I think the cushions are there for two reasons. One, it seems to give a "flapping" effect which reinforces the bird aspect of the ride. Secondly, i think they are there, much like the shock absorbers on the Arrow Suspendeds, to prevent fatigue on the chassis with the changes in weight distribution, but those are just my thoughts.

I disagree with you. I think that part of the fun of the industry is seeing what new concepts manufacturers and designers can come up with. Granted not all concepts and prototypes can, will and should be built, but having the ingenuity to put something out there that's different gets people like myself interested. We wouldnt have gotten flyers, suspendeds, inverteds, etc if these "gimmicks" weren't tried. Now, do I think this will be the next great thrill ride sensation, no. Neither was the ArrowBatic or the ThrustAir coasters, or many other concepts, but it got people talking and stirred a buzz.

I understand, agree with you, and realize that we wouldn't have the current styles that we do if it weren't for experimentation and gimmicks. I guess the number of concepts are referring to is fewer than I originally thought. The only ones that particularly come to mind are this, the Intamin Ball/ZacSpin coasters, and the idea of putting a "robo coaster" on an actual coaster. To me, the ArrowBatic concept is just an improvement on the invert, and the ThrustAir concept is just an improvement on traditional sit-down coasters.

So while I might be making my own argument pointless with this realization, I just don't feel there is a need to really create completely new prototype concepts like the Ball coaster or Power Eagle at this point in time. I'd rather see continued improvements and creativity with the existing styles. Launches and vertical drops have been the "thing" lately, which are just improvements to existing styles. That is the type of thing I like to see.

I guess my point is that I would rather see more Expedition GeForce style coasters, pre-fab woodies, progressive coasters like Maverick, unique flyers like Tatsu, and Dive Machines that are longer than 3000 ft before I see coasters with seats that freely flip or ride on the side of the track like a canoe.

^haiderodes you have a good point, but i personally believe a company like S&S needs to prove themselves as a great roller coaster manufacture before they go out and try to make 20 different styles. I personally have not ridden a single S&S ride that I got off of and was like "Wow, I loved that."

I believe as a business they are in no position to do what there doing with all these new designs. It has to hurt them financially. I wish they would just take the X 4d design and perfect it, make the trains and track smoother and maybe expand on that a little instead of coming out with all new designs.

Just think how many new track styles or designs Intamin and B&M have came up with in the last say 5 years, as compared to S&S. Now look at which companies have made the best rides in the last 5 years. All ideas came up through Intamin and B&M have been well researched and well thought through, Launched Coasters, Flying Coasters, and Dive Machines. They haven't came up with bad concepts as S&S has.

^ I treat "bad" as a relative term. Whats bad for one might not be bad for the other.

I too agree that companies should strive to improve their product, but all Im saying is I don't think they should forgo the ambitious, creative side of the business.

As for Intamin and B&M, do we really know they haven't had their own crazy concepts? Just because they haven't gone out there and released video or set up prototypes, doesnt mean they don't have their own tricks up their sleeve. Perhaps they are just a little more cautious when it comes to these things?

Arrow's culture has seemed to always push the envelope and to let people know, even with concepts that don't really work. Same with Stan and S&S. Be it the old school Arrow Pipeline or even that wacky Sonic Boom drop thing they have out there in Utah, the old company and the new one alike have given us concepts that were just plain rediculous at times. Perhaps its just the American way of doing things? To just go for it, and tell everybody about even if it may not pan out as expected.

That said, I'm sure it costs the company quite a bit to develop these concepts, but with the use of computers and simulation they dont necessarily have to incur the costs of actually building prototypes so I dont think the hit is necessarily that hard on them to keep cranking out these ideas.

 

That said, I'm sure it costs the company quite a bit to develop these concepts, but with the use of computers and simulation they dont necessarily have to incur the costs of actually building prototypes so I dont think the hit is necessarily that hard on them to keep cranking out these ideas.

Then i don't see a point at all for them to release this unless they are actually building one or one is planned for a park as we speak. Only thing i can get out of it is some company taking the idea, tweaking it just a little and making it their own.

Wouldn't it make a lot more sense to keep the idea a secret until you announce you're building one at a park? Makes more seance to me

S&S has contributed a lot... I think "setting the Turbo Drop towers on their side" and making the first full-circuit 100MPH coaster was a great achievement that Intamin had to catch up to. The Thrust Air coaster seems pretty intense.

I like the looks of the Eagle. Kind of a pipeline / suspended / 4D combo...

actually, it would be interesting if the rotation could be controlled like 4D.

I wonder if they could fix the suspended coaster with an air bag suspension? It would be great if they could make a suspended floorless that actually swings around a lot.

S&S Worldwide, Inc. Announces Ownership Changes

LOGAN, UT – September 30, 2010 – S&S Worldwide, Inc. is pleased to

announce that its largest shareholder, Larsen MacColl Partners LP, has recently

acquired majority ownership in the company, including all shares previously held

by company founder, Stan Checketts.

Larsen MacColl Partners, based in Radnor, Pennsylvania, acquired a significant

equity interest in S&S Worldwide, Inc. (“S&S”) in February 2009. A private equity

fund focused on profitable middle-market companies, Larsen MacColl formed a

partnership with S&S based on its proven business model, solid management

team, and significant growth potential. Since 2009, the strategic and financial

support of Larsen MacColl has contributed significantly to the company’s ongoing

success.

The Koffman family and affiliated shareholders will maintain their ownership

interest in S&S and are represented on the Board of Directors by Mr. Jeffrey

Koffman. Stan Checketts, founder of S&S, is no longer a shareholder and has

ended his consulting relationship with the Company in order to pursue other

business interests.

As the majority owner of S&S Worldwide, Larsen MacColl anticipates continued

strong growth by S&S, both domestically and internationally, driven by industry

leading product innovation and customer service. S&S will continue to be led by

Rich Allen, President and Chief Executive Officer. Since joining the company in

1997, Mr. Allen has been responsible for the day-to-day management and

operations of the company. Kevin Rohwer, who has been with S&S since 2002,

will maintain his role as Vice President, Sales and Marketing, with responsibility

for the oversight of all worldwide sales and marketing efforts and direction of the

company’s global sales team.

This is news

I've always found S&S's business interesting mainly because it seemed like they were coasting off of outrageous air-powered drop tower profits forever so they could play around with less reliable stuff. Interesting development, though, and it'll be fun to see if Larson continues with that sporadic method of innovation.

Will this change the company in any way beyond management? Or will they continue to produce rides like they have been?

^ No telling. Certainly with the head visionary of the company stepping down that has to make a significant difference.

Personally, and I've been saying this for a while now, that Arrow back catalog has got to be worth something.

Who wouldn't want to see more Tennessee Tornado's get built?

--Robb