The Knott's Berry Farm (KBF) Discussion Thread

[jarmor]

ohhh . . . so before it was more than a giant witch hand and some witches attached to a giant swinging fan?

[Freestyle23]

will I be looking at half hour wait times for Ghost Rider and Xcellerator tomorrow? Is that reasonable to expect...or longer?

[CedarFlags]

will I be looking at half hour wait times for Ghost Rider and Xcellerator tomorrow? Is that reasonable to expect...or longer?

 

Should be a pretty slow day because the summer season is petty much over now. Almost all of the schools are already back or will be on Monday.

[robbalvey]

Down to about 15 tickets left for West Coast Bash! Get them here: http://www.themeparkreview.com/store/index.php?categoryID=22

[Freestyle23]

Went to Knotts today. Got there a little after 11. Rode Ghostrider for the first time in 13 years in the very back row. Rode it 4 times total. 2nd time was in the very front. After the first 2 rides it didn't feel that bumpy as everyone says it is. But the 3rd time in the middle was out of control rough to where I had to hold on for my life. 4th time in the very back and it was rough also. It's like Apocalypse at MM but with more drops plus the lame mid course brake. The roughness just sucks because you can't really put your hands in the air the whole ride, you have to hold on so you don't hurt yourself. Still definitely rideable but after the renovation, if it's smooth that will be amazing. I totally forgot how this ride was for not riding it for so long. I hope they get rid of the mid course break when they renovate it because it's like Apocalypse with drops and it'll be back to world class. I love how long it is.

 

Xcellerator was 15-20 min wait. Rode it 3 times. Longest wait was Bigfoot Rapids at an hour when I got on it about 3 pm. I rode it again 3 hours later with a few minute wait. Only one train...Does this always have one train? Last time I went in May I thought they had two. There was no train in the storage track but I thought I saw wheels and parts on the ground over on that side.

 

Horrible ops on Boomerang there was at first 3 people but right after I got in line it became just 2, one guy in the control booth and one lady that had to check BOTH sides herself.

 

First time on Iron Reef. Love the air condition in the queue. Short tv introduction story. Never tells you what we have to do until we are on the ride and start shooting. Half hour wait.

 

I rode Silver Bullet as the second ride of the day and walked on. Later on I went to check the line and it was by the entrance and noticed they put one train in the storage track.

[Vonni]

Just out of curiosity, when Windjammer was removed was it just demolished for quick removal, or was it dismantled in proper pieces for the possibility of sale or relocation? Not that I'd have wanted to see it resurrected anywhere. I'm just curious on what the process was.

[Mechanic]

Windjammer was torn to bits so as to never have the opportunity to inflict pain on anyone again.

[CedarFlags]

Just out of curiosity, when Windjammer was removed was it just demolished for quick removal, or was it dismantled in proper pieces for the possibility of sale or relocation? Not that I'd have wanted to see it resurrected anywhere. I'm just curious on what the process was.

 

There are some neat Windjammer demolition pictures on this page. It was ripped apart rather unceremoniously.

 

http://www.themeparkreview.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1424944

[Top Thrill Dragster]

Went to Knotts today. Got there a little after 11. Rode Ghostrider for the first time in 13 years in the very back row. Rode it 4 times total. 2nd time was in the very front. After the first 2 rides it didn't feel that bumpy as everyone says it is. But the 3rd time in the middle was out of control rough to where I had to hold on for my life. 4th time in the very back and it was rough also. It's like Apocalypse at MM but with more drops plus the lame mid course brake. The roughness just sucks because you can't really put your hands in the air the whole ride, you have to hold on so you don't hurt yourself. Still definitely rideable but after the renovation, if it's smooth that will be amazing. I totally forgot how this ride was for not riding it for so long. I hope they get rid of the mid course break when they renovate it because it's like Apocalypse with drops and it'll be back to world class. I love how long it is.

 

Xcellerator was 15-20 min wait. Rode it 3 times. Longest wait was Bigfoot Rapids at an hour when I got on it about 3 pm. I rode it again 3 hours later with a few minute wait. Only one train...Does this always have one train? Last time I went in May I thought they had two. There was no train in the storage track but I thought I saw wheels and parts on the ground over on that side.

Horrible ops on Boomerang there was at first 3 people but right after I got in line it became just 2, one guy in the control booth and one lady that had to check BOTH sides herself.

 

First time on Iron Reef. Love the air condition in the queue. Short tv introduction story. Never tells you what we have to do until we are on the ride and start shooting. Half hour wait.

 

I rode Silver Bullet as the second ride of the day and walked on. Later on I went to check the line and it was by the entrance and noticed they put one train in the storage track.

 

 

 

Xcelerator has two trains and can run both of them at the same time. However, for the past year and half the ride has only been running one train with the other in "rehab".

 

I think the days of Xcelerator ever running two trains again are sadly long gone.

[VegasBaby]

Took the fam to the park on Friday to say our goodbyes to GhostRider. I love the 30 min early entry for season pass holders, we got 3 rides on Sierra Sidewinder and 3 rides on Silver Bullet without having to get off. Silver Bullet was only running one train, but it was still a walk on later in the afternoon. I saw a second train on the storage track, so maybe they decided to just run one train since it wasn't going to be a busy day. GhostRider was maybe a 1-2 train wait and we ended up riding it twice, which was about all we could take. The rehab cannot come soon enough and I really hope they eliminate the MCBR that puts you into a dead stop. It really kills the momentum and neuters the back end of the ride. The longest wait all day was the log ride at 15 min was since it was like 95 degrees, definitely one of the hottest days I've had at KBF. It was so hot that I rode Bigfoot Rapids for the first time in like 15 years and we ended up doing it twice!

 

Iron Reef provided a nice break from the heat though and it was only about a 10 minute wait. I love that the park has another dark ride, especially on hot days like this one. Xcelerator was only a 1-2 train wait, but I only got 4 laps on it since my 11 yr old won't ride it and my 8 yr old is one inch too short to ride. They both love Coast Rider though and were able to ride it about 10 times without getting off while I was doing Xcelerator. I've only seen 1 train ops on Xcelerator the last few years, so I don't know if we're going to see two train ops on it again. They did add some much needed shade tarps in the queue, so that will be nice on busy days.

 

We also did the Screaming Swing since it's going to be removed soon. Normally it is a $5 upcharge (well worth it IMO) but I showed the op our season passes and they let us ride for free! Just another reason to love this park It really makes me wonder what is going to take its place since I doubt they would remove it without putting something else there. Knott's has a pretty solid flat ride selection, so maybe an Air Race or a Disk-O could go there?

 

Overall, we had a great day at the park despite the heat. The park was open until 8pm, but we ended up leaving about 5:30pm as we had ridden everything multiple times and we wanted to beat the dinner rush at Mrs. Knott's.

Edited August 31, 2015 by VegasBaby

[DJeXeL]

Went to Knotts today. Got there a little after 11. Rode Ghostrider for the first time in 13 years in the very back row. Rode it 4 times total. 2nd time was in the very front. After the first 2 rides it didn't feel that bumpy as everyone says it is. But the 3rd time in the middle was out of control rough to where I had to hold on for my life. 4th time in the very back and it was rough also. It's like Apocalypse at MM but with more drops plus the lame mid course brake. The roughness just sucks because you can't really put your hands in the air the whole ride, you have to hold on so you don't hurt yourself. Still definitely rideable but after the renovation, if it's smooth that will be amazing. I totally forgot how this ride was for not riding it for so long. I hope they get rid of the mid course break when they renovate it because it's like Apocalypse with drops and it'll be back to world class. I love how long it is.

 

Xcellerator was 15-20 min wait. Rode it 3 times. Longest wait was Bigfoot Rapids at an hour when I got on it about 3 pm. I rode it again 3 hours later with a few minute wait. Only one train...Does this always have one train? Last time I went in May I thought they had two. There was no train in the storage track but I thought I saw wheels and parts on the ground over on that side.

Horrible ops on Boomerang there was at first 3 people but right after I got in line it became just 2, one guy in the control booth and one lady that had to check BOTH sides herself.

 

First time on Iron Reef. Love the air condition in the queue. Short tv introduction story. Never tells you what we have to do until we are on the ride and start shooting. Half hour wait.

 

I rode Silver Bullet as the second ride of the day and walked on. Later on I went to check the line and it was by the entrance and noticed they put one train in the storage track.

 

 

 

Xcelerator has two trains and can run both of them at the same time. However, for the past year and half the ride has only been running one train with the other in "rehab".

 

I think the days of Xcelerator ever running two trains again are sadly long gone.

 

It's more reliable without the 2nd train. 2nd train doesn't do much to increase capacity to warrant the increased down times.

[Guy T. Koepp]

^^Knott's seems to be headed in the right direction with the rehabs of the Timber Mountain Log Ride, Calico Mine Train and Ghostrider. I think another huge step in the that direction would be for them to rebuild the Haunted Shack in place of the Screaming Swing after it is removed. I have many fond memories of the old Haunted Shack, and I missed it greatly. It also made for another great place for a maze during Haunt.

[Jew]

^^This is why I'll never really be able to think of KBF as "world class" again. Awesome that they are updating GhostRider and previously updated the Mine and Log rides. However, the attitude of "ehh...the 2nd train isn't worth the hassle. It only hurts the wait time a little" instead of "lets figure out what's wrong so we can provide the best experience for our guest" is so very old school Cedar Fair.

[thrillseeker4552]

^^This is why I'll never really be able to think of KBF as "world class" again. Awesome that they are updating GhostRider and previously updated the Mine and Log rides. However, the attitude of "ehh...the 2nd train isn't worth the hassle. It only hurts the wait time a little" instead of "lets figure out what's wrong so we can provide the best experience for our guest" is so very old school Cedar Fair.

 

I believe I read somewhere that Xcelerator is far more reliable when running one train, hence why Knott's isn't in a huge rush to fix up the second since running two trains makes the ride break down much more frequently anyway.

 

However, I would love to see Xcelerator get some kind of "makeover", since the red train has been running for quite some time, causing the ride to become pretty rattly. This probably isn't very likely, but I would love to see Xcelerator get a fresh coat of paint and maybe a pair of Intamin's new lap-bar trains? Maybe a few years down the road? And correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe these new trains can accommodate smaller riders than the current ones?

This is totally a pipe dream but it's fun to think about!

[Jew]

That's my point. Instead of "oh, it's more reliable with one train, so the net loss in capacity isn't THAT big of deal" they need to be like "Hey, lets hire whatever controls guy or engineering specialist we need to hire and get this damn thing to run reliably with two trains."

 

Knott's is doing so many thing right I hope that is in their plans in the near future as well....

[DoubleDown]

Wow! What a coincidence to hear so many people visiting Knott's on Sunday!

 

I actually went with my brother on Sunday because it was his birthday and we like going to parks together. Not a planned trip at all, Saturday night he said he wanted to go, so his price of admission was my birthday gift to him, as well as the beers, steak fries, Icees, and sodas. We planned to stay for only a couple hours but were having fun so we stayed until 4, and basically went on everything. I was very surprised how dead it was and especially how little we waited for a lot of the rides.

 

We showed up at 9:58 and the park was already open. Went to Ghostrider, line was at the top of the stairs, probably 20-30 mins. We know how parks work, the ride at the front is the busiest, so we skipped it to head to other rides, got on Silver Bullet 2nd train wait, Xcelerator 1 train wait, Log Ride about 10 minutes. 20 minutes for Voyage (which we both enjoyed), Boomerang (I made him go on it) and the newer flyer fair ride on the Boardwalk which to my surprise, was actually a lot of fun. I found myself going backwards at one point after learning how the wing worked. Did the Coastrider too, walk on, but that first drop was IMO the best part of the ride. To make it short we also rode Supreme Scream, the Swings, Jaguar, Montezoomas, Mine Ride, Pony, Ghostrider, and Bigfoot Rapids for our last ride of the day which was probably an hour.

 

Now, I have to talk about Ghostrider, which we rode in the back seat. I'll be honest I consider myself a veteran roller coaster rider, I've been on coasters all over the world throughout Europe and the United States, but I must say, I found the coaster completely unridable. After the first drop and the left turn into the second hill, I knew I was in for another 1-2 minutes of extreme jolting, shifting, pulling, spine splitting, and bracing. At this point, I am surprised the ride is even able to open to the public. There was a rider sitting in the middle of the train that was literally holding his neck by the time we got to the mid course break run.

 

IMO the only way to save this ride is with new trains and a plug and play or RMC style makeover. I am no little pu**y when it comes to getting on a ride, but I can honestly say I would not get on this coaster more than 1 time a trip ever again unless there are some serious modifications to the track, and hopefully the trains. It is as bad as Psyclone was, is worse than Mean Streak from what I remember, and while a lot of very good elements of the ride are still there, the amount of jolting and bracing take away from the kind of enjoyment I used to have from the very extreme elements of the ride. I am glad to hear they are doing a makeover, but I really think the ride needs a serious look and financial investment from the park if they expect it to be rideable and enjoyable for the next decade. Again, I cannot believe the coaster is actually able to open to the public based on the ride experience I had and the condition it is in at this point. I am very much hoping Knott's and most of all Cedar Fair is willing to do a long term rehab to this ride so that it not only makes the ride experience better, but also allows the ride to continue that experience for many years to come.

 

Prices are way steep once you're inside the park though. Why is Knott's charging $4.75 for a churro when you can get them at Disneyland for a buck less? The nickel and diming inside the park is horrendous. $13 for a burger combo? C'mon! $5 for an Icee refill? Really? $8 hot dog! YES! $8 HOT DOG!!! I would love to bring up these prices to executives who set these prices and just look at their faces when you put things in perspective. They wouldn't be able to NOT crack a smile.

 

In conclusion, our trip was awesome. Don't eat or drink there though. Go to Tokyo Teriyaki by the Chase bank and get some bomb ass teriyaki chicken and beef platters for about $8. SO FREAKIN' GOOD!! Tell 'em TPR sent you! Or if you're in the mood for a burger, spend the same amount you would in the park at Fatburger. Gives you a little break from the park, and a second wind once you head back in.

[amroberts]

^I'm going to second going to Tokyo Teriyaki. It's easy walking distance, cheap, lots of food, and it's better tasting than any other teriyaki bowl place I've been to. It's a hidden local gem.

[DJeXeL]

That's my point. Instead of "oh, it's more reliable with one train, so the net loss in capacity isn't THAT big of deal" they need to be like "Hey, lets hire whatever controls guy or engineering specialist we need to hire and get this damn thing to run reliably with two trains."

 

Knott's is doing so many thing right I hope that is in their plans in the near future as well....

 

Supposedly new trains are on the radar for XC. Rather or not said new trains will have OTSRs or not is unclear.

[CedarFlags]

That's my point. Instead of "oh, it's more reliable with one train, so the net loss in capacity isn't THAT big of deal" they need to be like "Hey, lets hire whatever controls guy or engineering specialist we need to hire and get this damn thing to run reliably with two trains."

 

Knott's is doing so many thing right I hope that is in their plans in the near future as well....

 

Supposedly new trains are on the radar for XC. Rather or not said new trains will have OTSRs or not is unclear.

 

Why would they though?

[DJeXeL]

I don't expect them to and hope they don't.

[VegasBaby]

That's my point. Instead of "oh, it's more reliable with one train, so the net loss in capacity isn't THAT big of deal" they need to be like "Hey, lets hire whatever controls guy or engineering specialist we need to hire and get this damn thing to run reliably with two trains."

 

Knott's is doing so many thing right I hope that is in their plans in the near future as well....

 

Supposedly new trains are on the radar for XC. Rather or not said new trains will have OTSRs or not is unclear.

 

That would be great news, even better if they restore 2 train ops on it. I would love to see Xcelerator gets new trains to go along with the Ghostrider rehab (which hopefully includes new trains as well). Knott's has done pretty well with their additions and ride rehabs the last few years, so I'm hopeful these coasters will get the attention they deserve.

[CedarFlags]

The thing about Xcelerator and 1 train vs 2 trains operations is... it's not an issue with the trains. It's a fundamental issue with the ride's construction. Because it launches straight out of the station instead of a launch block (like TTD and KK), they can't bring a second train in from the brake block until the first one has cleared the top hat. By the time the second train would get fully parked in the station and lapbars went up, the first train would already be at the end of the brakes. Running two trains doubles the cost (and time) of train maintenance and does virtually nothing to increase capacity. So, the park decided to save money in that area since its effect on the guest experience is fairly limited.

[fpsphil]

Honestly i can definitly tell the difference between one and two train ops. If the crew is on top of loading and there isnt much item juggling by the gp, the second train can become a great asset in increasing the rph. I always liked when it was running 2 trains instead of one.

[thrillseeker4552]

The thing about Xcelerator and 1 train vs 2 trains operations is... it's not an issue with the trains. It's a fundamental issue with the ride's construction. Because it launches straight out of the station instead of a launch block (like TTD and KK), they can't bring a second train in from the brake block until the first one has cleared the top hat. By the time the second train would get fully parked in the station and lapbars went up, the first train would already be at the end of the brakes. Running two trains doubles the cost (and time) of train maintenance and does virtually nothing to increase capacity. So, the park decided to save money in that area since its effect on the guest experience is fairly limited.

 

This is the point I was trying to get across. It's pretty much impossible to run the ride (due to its design) without stacking trains.

[Garet]

The thing about Xcelerator and 1 train vs 2 trains operations is... it's not an issue with the trains. It's a fundamental issue with the ride's construction. Because it launches straight out of the station instead of a launch block (like TTD and KK), they can't bring a second train in from the brake block until the first one has cleared the top hat. By the time the second train would get fully parked in the station and lapbars went up, the first train would already be at the end of the brakes. Running two trains doubles the cost (and time) of train maintenance and does virtually nothing to increase capacity. So, the park decided to save money in that area since its effect on the guest experience is fairly limited.

 

There are other launchers which don't have the blocks at the start like Rita & Stealth but I think nearly all of them get around that by having a separate unload area as a 3rd block but as you said the train is normally already in the unload area before checking has even started on the 2nd cars restraints. Having an already unloaded train does save time though. Being the first, is Xcelerator the only one without this and Intamin just learnt from it for their future ones?