Holiday World (HW) Discussion Thread

[rcjp]

And is it possible to line of footers isn't for a launch section, but a break run?

Nothing I hadn't thought about but someone said it was not tall enough for one (or something like that).

[ZeroGravity55]

^ They looked like they were too close together for it to be a break-run. The way I looked at (and I'm no engineer) is the fact that no break-run would create enough force on the track that would justify that many footers in row and that close together.

 

I'm only 90% sure because I'm starting to think that this all might be HW's way of trolling us by having the manufacturer design their footers like B&M.

 

You should raise your percentage of certainty because I can assure you this is not a thing.

 

I'm sad to say that 52 days of guessing, wondering, and trying to figure this out has brought me to this point. Congrats HW, you've successfully made me doubt something that appears to be the only 100% true fact that we have so far.

[parkjunkie]

As it seems that as many people would like to see in an invert, I will doubt this very much for a few reasons. Im sure theres a few people that will argue this nd some that will bite my head off for me saying this. Here's my logic. As mentioned, Banshee is not too far away. Footers don't look to be for an invert. I don't see HW going THIS extreme for their first steel. The other is in this picture.... With how close this is going to be to Hyena Falls, it is almost impossible to be an invert.... and IMO, I don't see a wingrider being set this close either. With HW's history of getting first of a kinds, new designs, and going to new heights, I DO see this being a new B&M product or design, whether it be a new coaster design, new ride feel, or new cars.

[swiver]

My official guess after much thought is a B&M 4th dimension prototype.

 

Wingriders are a test phase for B&M to prove they can pull off the cantilevered train design, at least in my opinion.

 

Now that the design is proven, why not make the seats rotate? The rocking, tossing, and turning motions of the ship are right there, and inversions are too!

[Diamondbacker27]

I highly doubt it will be a 4-D coaster, they want their products to be reliable 24/7. I don't know about X2's reliability, but I'm sure most of B&Ms current ones are better about it. But then again, who knows.

[kyleparks77]

^ They looked like they were too close together for it to be a break-run. The way I looked at (and I'm no engineer) is the fact that no break-run would create enough force on the track that would justify that many footers in row and that close together.

 

Actually, from an engineering standpoint, a brake run needs quite a few footings or end bent type structures. In order to stop that much weight traveling at a significant speed, a great deal of force must be applied to the train and the momentum of the train distributes force back into the structure. This force must then be distributed through the structure and into the footings and dissipated through the ground. Otherwise, the structure would fail or the riders would be injured from the stopping force. Think of a brake run as the inverse of a launch in terms of force distributions. So I wouldn't rule out this being a brake run.

[neil009]

I highly doubt it will be a 4-D coaster, they want their products to be reliable 24/7. I don't know about X2's reliability, but I'm sure most of B&Ms current ones are better about it. But then again, who knows.

 

 

Reliability is an issue but I think the bigger issue is rider comfort. I've never been on a 4-d coaster but whether it's Insane or X2 the story seems to be the same, very intense, not particularly comfortable. Does that sound like B&M to you? I can believe that maybe (maybe) they're moving towards more forceful designs again, but anyone hoping for that radical a departure from them is setting themselves up for disappointment.

 

I have absolutely no idea what in B&M's catalogue could've piqued HW's interest, that's why I'm not bothering to hazard a guess myself. I still doubt it will be a prototype. Floorless coaster sounds so blah but honestly I'm thinking that's the most likely thing at this point. Hey, a terrain floorless threaded through the woods with some snappy inversions could be good, though. As long as HW approached this project the same way they did their other coasters we shouldn't be worried.

[coasterkid124]

I highly doubt that HW goes with any sort of prototype again after the failures of both Giraffica and the Timberliners. The two words that come to my mind when I hear HW are reliability, which was mentioned above, and consistency.

 

Consistency is not only to keep riding the same way, but how long will it be able to continue doing so. Reliability plays a huge role in that. B&Ms are both reliable and consistent, but they have never tried a 4d coaster before. As for Intamin, they lack in reliability, but do better in consistency. Look at Xcelerator for instance, it is very unreliable, yet very consistent when it is operating correctly.

 

I am highly pushing for maybe an LIM B&M. (Yes, I realize that this is a prototype too, but it would be a lot less complex than a 4D system)

[prozach626]

Floorless coaster sounds so blah but honestly I'm thinking that's the most likely thing at this point. Hey, a terrain floorless threaded through the woods with some snappy inversions could be good, though. As long as HW approached this project the same way they did their other coasters we shouldn't be worried.

 

I was thinking the same thing. I didn't mention floorless earlier, because I didn't want it to happen! That being said, when I rode Scream a couple years ago I wasn't impressed. That being said, I think Holiday World and B&M could do it right this time. I just hope Banshee hasn't made me overly optimistic, but it would be great to see the revival of forceful B&M.

 

I also think a launched B&M is not unrealistic, but we'll see.

[coasterkid124]

^Or possibly a combination of both? I don't know if that's even possible. I would be worried about something getting caught in the launch system. But then again, all current floorless coasters use a chain lift.

[Tmcdllr]

If B&M decided to do the 4D coaster then they would have to solve the problem of the ride beating the living crap out of you. If they can do that, while providing an amazingly smooth and graceful ride with forces and cool elements, then they are golden. The biggest turn off for me as far as X2 goes is it really does hurt and if you don't 'ride it properly' the head banging alone is extremely painful.

[prozach626]

I don't know where everyone is getting the 4D ideas from, but it's not going to happen with B&M.

[coasterkid124]

^At least not yet. The reason why they are not more popular is because of complexity and cost. If B&M works out those kinks, we would see them build one for sure.

[RyanTPM]

I'm still thinking a B&M launch rather than any other model. Certainly looking like it's a B&M though.

[swiver]

To defend my B&M 4D prototype statement a little, I'll say this:

 

As soon as I mentioned a 4D coaster, it seems as if everyone began comparing to the other 4D coasters. This is understandable, but impractical.

 

X2 has many issues because, yes, it was a prototype, but nothing even remotely similar had been done before its debut. B&M's 4D ride (if it happens) will essentially be a Revision A of their Wingrider model. I'm sure if they are working on the rotational seat concept, they aren't going to make it "unreliable" - years of testing and research has probably gone into this. C'mon, they're B&M and we know that they like to play it safe to a degree. They are known for reliability and I'm sure they want to make sure their product remains that way.

 

Secondly, Arrow coasters were notoriously rough. X2 was rough, which makes sense to me seeing as other rides made by this manufacturer can be painful. This doesn't necessarily mean that all 4D coasters ever made will be rough, though. Since B&M coasters are notoriously smooth, why would their version of a 4D coaster be painful and jarring? You could argue that the motion of the seats themselves may cause discomfort. An Intamin Zacspin (which swings freely) will experience much more rotational acceleration than a 4D coaster, therefore causing a much more forceful and out of control experience for the rider. The 4D coasters run on a "3rd rail" that can be programmed to rotate at any given speed/acceleration that the manufacturer chooses. Like I previously stated, since B&M likes to play it safe to a degree, I highly doubt they would put any intense rotational motion into the seats themselves - this would cause more discomfort to riders, and more maintenance for the park.

 

So, all that being said, I still think it kind of makes sense that this could be the first B&M 4D coaster. It could also be a ton of other things; heck I don't even really want my statement to be true, it's just my guess!

[The Geek Mojo]

I don't understand why everyone is certain this is a B&M? Not that I have a problem with it being a B&M, I love B&M...But I'm still not convinced. And if it's going to be one, there is no way they are going to put anything in that is remotely close to what Kings Island has. So, if it's going to be an B&M, I vote Dive coaster.

[jarmor]

Kings Island doesn't have a launched B&M, Doesn't have a sit down multi-looper B&M...nor a floorless. And I never heard of a park not getting a style of coaster because another park has one. We have 3 hyper coasters shared between SFA, BGW and KD.

[VF15]

Don't understand why some people think it's going to be a B&M 4D coaster. I wouldn't be against one, but since B&M is the kind of company that likes to play things safe, I can't see them building one. Maybe it's possible that it's a B&M launched, since I've heard that B&M is interested in making launched coasters, but I think that an Intamin or a Premier Rides launched coaster would be a better fit for this park. I could be wrong though.

[JonnyRCT3]

^^^Why can't two parks have inverts?

[parkjunkie]

^^Not saying they cant. I think what people are saying is that HW likes doing something new and fresh. If KI didnt get Banshee, then an invert wouldnt be out of the question. But that KI is somewhat close and put in a monster invert, it doesnt seem HW would almost "copy" the following year... HWs history shows this. HW likes to show off and say "Hey, look we have, cant find anything else quite like it, so come check it out!"

[DanTheBooker]

Not trying to be funny, but I'm voting launched Floorless. Closest Floorless would be what? Dominator.. Hydra maybe? Floorless will help sell a "no land" theme. Just my two cents.

[The Geek Mojo]

Kings Island doesn't have a launched B&M, Doesn't have a sit down multi-looper B&M...nor a floorless. And I never heard of a park not getting a style of coaster because another park has one. We have 3 hyper coasters shared between SFA, BGW and KD.

 

 

All of SFA, BGW, and KD coasters are different.

 

SFA has a Intamin hyper

BGW has a B&M hyper

and KD has a Intamin Giga

 

That's what's great around the Richmond area, you can ride almost every kind of B&M there is except a Flying, Wing or sit down. But all of those parks have something different.

[The Geek Mojo]

If Holiday World got an invert coaster, that would be totally lame. And wasn't there something a while back saying that this was going to be around the $13 million range? B&M doesn't make coasters for $13 million. I could be wrong, but I remember hearing that somewhere.

[rcdude]

I haven't been following this too closely, as I will be visiting the park this year and don't know when I'll get back, but I'm pretty sure if Holiday World is going with a B&M (looking likely at this point) it will be a proven design. Holiday World needs something that is going to work, not a prototype that runs the risk of frequent breakdowns. B&M 4D? Not even sure if B&M has actually considered doing this, but it sounds like something Six Flags or Cedar Fair would try first. Launched B&M? A little more likely, but I'd still bet against it. I'd also rule out a hyper (too big for Holiday World), inverted (too similar to Banshee), and stand-up (I don't think B&M offers these anymore). What does that leave? If the new coaster is indeed a B&M, it will be one of the company's sit-down designs (standard, floorless, dive, or wing) or a flying coaster. If the ride does end up being launched, I'm pretty sure it would be a standard sit-down, but if not I'm guessing it will be either a floorless coaster or a wing coaster. I don't know...we'll see in a couple weeks.

 

Of course, I could be completely wrong and Holiday World could shock the enthusiast community with a hyper stand-up launched 4D from B&M.

[LogBur]

I don't understand why everyone is certain this is a B&M?

 

You should try reading some of the thread. No one is certain but the footings being poured are identical to those of Banshee and Gatekeeper with no word from anyone that other manufacturers use the same style of footing.

 

If Holiday World got an invert coaster, that would be totally lame. And wasn't there something a while back saying that this was going to be around the $13 million range? B&M doesn't make coasters for $13 million. I could be wrong, but I remember hearing that somewhere.

 

It would be lame if they received B&M's most intense ride model? Also, no one knows how much money the park is investing for 2015. They spent $13.5 million in 2006 - their largest expansion to date and we have word from the park that this expansion will be larger.