Liseberg Discussion Thread

[3Mutts]

Mack needs more of a track record with coasters (beyond the Wild Mouse) before people will completely agree with those statements. Mack has one installation outside of their own park and one more on the books.

 

Yes, they have the "potential", but large coasters are still a small percentage of their business.

Mack has two on the books (Projekt Helix & Storm at Etnaland)

[GeorgeT]

Ummm...what about Manta at Sea World...doesn`t that coaster count because it has no loops ?

 

And what about the Blue Fire Clone that Mack will build for the Winter games at Sotchi ???

 

It`s probably too early to say Mack coasters will be more popular in the future that Intamins, but I really don`t think that it`s THAT unrealistic seeing their latest orders and knowing their outstanding quality.

 

In my opinion Blue Fire`s layout is NOT outstanding...but the Mack mega coaster Concept and trains is just awesome IMHO.

 

Greeds...GeorgeT

[Ramius]

Mack has some more projects:

 

Manta at SeaWorld SanDiego (2012)

Project Helix at Lisberg (2014)

The Storm at Etnaland (2013)

Project Sochi (Russia) (2013?)

Megacoaster at Nigloland (2013)

BlueFire at IMG Theme Park (Dubai) (2013)

[larrygator]

Ummm...what about Manta at Sea World...doesn`t that coaster count because it has no loops ?

 

That's the "one". The only one that they have sold and built to date. My apologies that they have a few big ones on the books.

 

But you can't say that Blue Fire and Manta make Mack and its history of Wild Mice, Powered, Water Coasters, Bobsleds and family coasters a contender for top thrilling coaster manufacturer.

[GayCoasterGuy]

I've heard nothing but great things about blue fire. I was on a forum and they were comparing Maverick to blue fire; the 2 coasters clearly have some of the same features. One friend basically told me Maverick and blue fire don't even belong in the same category - that blue fire was better in every way. The comfort thing is obvious... but Maverick is nearly 1,000 feet longer. To each their own opinion. I almost always go with comfort, I friggin hate shoulder bars - especially those on Maverick.

[Ramius]

That's the "one". The only one that they have sold and built to date. My apologies that they have a few big ones on the books.

 

This is not correct.

The coaster for Etnaland is completely build and just waits for opening in 2013.

 

Mack is not a contender for top thrilling coaster manufacturer and i don't see them to go that way.

[Coolex]

Mack is not a contender for top thrilling coaster manufacturer and i don't see them to go that way.

 

Top thrilling coasters, can of course be fun in a way.

But it´s not whats on the paper, thats most inportant. It´s the experience and the wonderful moment.

 

Fun fun fun....

[_koppen]

I can also see that Mack will become a big player in the next 5-10 years, but what I thought was dumb about that comment was this part:

but Intamin simply still doesn't have a trademark coaster style anymore. Sure, they've tried with Intimidator/SkyRush but each of those have had their own respective problems. While they may be better rides, I don't see parks being willing to go with Intamin as they simply can't get their act together in terms of reliability and maintenance costs.

[simon8899]

I can't wait to see more of MACKs Mega-Loopers comming up - riding Blue Fire last month it was my best new looper this year, with Intamin inverted-looper Tornado at Särkeniemmi scoring second. The multi-launch concept of Helix was just waiting to happen as Blue Fire isn't using a pusher for lauch anymore but instead using a pure magnetic accelerated launch. Also true is that MACK is mostly known for it's family-friendly oevre and potential clients want to see working proof of their coasters - not only at the home park were technical service is nearby and free.

 

I also wouldn't agree that Intamin has no signature coasters anymore - Intamin coasters are today the most forceful which I as Schwarzkopf fan appreciate. For me B&M is the most conservative coaster-builder today - while they're big, fun and ultra-smooth they're lacking progressive launch systems such as hydraulic or magnetic launch and for me they totally lack Gs - mostly topping at about 3.5G.

[andybarnes84]

I've heard nothing but great things about blue fire. I was on a forum and they were comparing Maverick to blue fire; the 2 coasters clearly have some of the same features. One friend basically told me Maverick and blue fire don't even belong in the same category - that blue fire was better in every way. The comfort thing is obvious... but Maverick is nearly 1,000 feet longer. To each their own opinion. I almost always go with comfort, I friggin hate shoulder bars - especially those on Maverick.

 

Having just ridden Blue Fire for the first time last week, and Maverick back in June, I would compare them in the same way I would a B&M hyper and Skyrush/Intimidator 305 i.e. Blue Fire is more comfortable and smooth with a less than spectacular launch, Maverick is all go and just nuts! Depends what you prefer I suppose but Blue Fire didn't impress me as much as I was hoping it would.

[Justice]

I can also see that Mack will become a big player in the next 5-10 years, but what I thought was dumb about that comment was this part:

but Intamin simply still doesn't have a trademark coaster style anymore. Sure, they've tried with Intimidator/SkyRush but each of those have had their own respective problems. While they may be better rides, I don't see parks being willing to go with Intamin as they simply can't get their act together in terms of reliability and maintenance costs.

I stand behind this statement, but allow me to refine it.

 

Mack's Megacoaster is their trademark coaster style now. Its highly versatile, with a huge range of possibilities including either launch or lift, and family friendly or thrilling. Not to mention, they've proven thus far to be incredibly reliable (I've heard truly wonderful things about Blue Fire's maintenance). The trains are comfortable and overall, Mack introduced a product that was ready from the start.

 

Intamin on the other hand seems to be having trouble in recent years finding their way. And I completely stand behind this. Intimidator was suppose to be the introduction to their new mega coaster style. The design was not ready for the public. Simple as that. I simply don't see why parks would jump to an Intamin when a ride like Intimidator has massive maintenance problems through the year, so much so that an entire section of the ride had to be redone.

 

Then we have SkyRush which in theory should have been one of the greatest coasters on the planet and again Intamin introduces a new train and restraint system. SkyRush opens and then there are complaints about the restraints to no end. I didn't ride this so I don't know how warranted these complaints are, but these are complaints none the less. You don't spend $25 million on a ride to get complaints from even the most educated of coaster enthusiasts.

 

Both of these were major Intamin flaws. Not to mention smaller circumstances like the Cheetah Hunt opening delay, Maverick's heartline roll removed, the Intamin cable incidents and so on.

 

Now we go back to Mack, who is still in its infancy. Yet none of their rides have had problems. At all. Here's another example, B&M introduces the wing-rider. It works flawlessly. They proceed to build 5 more in the span of 2 years. Mack introduces Blue Fire in 2009, now we have 5 Mack projects in the pipeline for a 3 year span.

 

So sure, Intamin may continue to build the better rides, but I don't see parks going to them as often anymore and instead shifting to Mack who is continuing to provide a more reliable product.

 

I hope this clarifies things, and if you still don't agree, thats fine. But I don't think its fair to call this the stupidest thing you've read. If it still is, I highly recommend you go and checkout the Outback Oasis thread.

[A.J.]

Forget about Project Helix. I want Mack to build more bobsled coasters!

[cfc]

So sure, Intamin may continue to build the better rides, but I don't see parks going to them as often anymore and instead shifting to Mack who is continuing to provide a more reliable product.

 

I still think you're leaping to a rather large conclusion here. Mack's launched coasters haven't really developed a track record yet. Time will tell.

 

I still think it's good to see other ride manufacturers stepping up; it's just way to early to be predicting anyone's demise yet.

Edited October 14, 2012 by cfc

[MrSum1_55]

Although, issues with rides like Maverick, I305, and Skyrush have been more comfortability issues, and not so much reliability issues. Manufacturers design based on park request. When a park asks for an intense coaster, and you build an Intense coaster they don't like, that is pretty much the park's fault. So, I have always defended Intamin for I305. Skyrush, on the other hand, I have not always defended them for in all areas. Yes, they did request an Intanse coaster, but the restraints were the main issue. Rides like Cheetah Hunt, which seem to be working just fine, minus a few rip ability issues during opening, prove that Intamin can build rides as they want them.

 

If you went up to Intamin and asked for a floaty, B&M style hyper, I doubt they would reject. On the converse, if you came up to B&M and asked for a hyper with ejector air, I doubt they would reject that request. Parks build rides to be as intense as parks want them. Therefore, IMHO, I don't think Intamin deserves as much blame as others, or the industry may think.

 

Since B&M doesn't make launch coasters, Mack seems to be filling the void in that area.

[Mozart67]

wow..just WOW! I have yet to experience a TPR trip; this may be the one.

[Brad_G]

Guess this means I'll have to make a trip back to Scandi in 2014.

[cfc]

^As if anyone really needs another excuse to visit Liseberg.

[Meteornotes]

Gotta love Intamin hate. It's like they come to your house in the middle of the night and slap you around with leftover Skyrush restraints. I'm happy there's at least one manufacturer out there that tries new things and pushes the envelope and produces rides with actual forces, rather than ones that create an experience much like sitting in your office chair.

 

Time will tell whether or not Mack can compete in the major coaster market. I liked, but didn't love, Blue Fire. Bot I do see the potential in this sort of coaster for something wonderful.

 

dt

[GeorgeT]

Blue Fire is kind of "forceless" because it was build at Europa Park...FOR their target audience.

 

And though Blue Fires layout is nothing amazing IMHO riding Blue still shows perfecly the potential of the mack Megacoaster concept. The trains will be PERFECT for something forceful yet comfortabe, and that`s what we`re gonna see in the future...hopefully.

 

Ahh, and by the way : Another Mack Megacoaster was confirmed for french "Nigoland" AFAIK

 

Greeds...GeorgeT

[larrygator]

Blue Fire is kind of "forceless" because it was build at Europa Park...FOR their target audience.

 

And though Blue Fires layout is nothing amazing IMHO riding Blue still shows perfecly the potential of the mack Megacoaster concept. The trains will be PERFECT for something forceful yet comfortabe, and that`s what we`re gonna see in the future...hopefully.

 

Ahh, and by the way : Another Mack Megacoaster was confirmed for french "Nigoland" AFAIK

 

Greeds...GeorgeT

 

 

Potential, potential, potential. Non-operating coasters from S&S have potential too. It doesn't mean much until Mack can prove it. I'm not saying they can't, but prove it.

[supertrooper]

I was planning on going on one of the TPR trips this coming summer. I think I'll just continue saving for Scandinavia instead.

[jedimaster1227]

^You could always do both!

[rolercstrluvr]

^You could always do both!

 

That's what i'm going to try for, maybe a partial west coast trip if possible and then Scandi in 2014.

[better_by_design]

Question for those who have ridden Blue Fire and Manta (SWSD) - does the launch kick on Blue Fire like it does on Manta? If it does and that sort of kick is on this one too, that makes me even more excited!

 

I have not done Manta yet, but Blue Fire is extremely gentle and I wouldn't say the launch has any real kick to it.

 

Agreed. In fact, bluefire's focus is not the launch, really, but the whole ride itself. What makes those rides so special is that they are smooth, exciting, very rerideable, have great capacity, have comfortable trains and are very versatile... Oh yeah, and the final kick-ass inline twist

 

I am really excited about this addition. I loved bluefire and I am sure I wil enjoy this even more! So looking forward to visiting Liseberg in 2014!

 

Ditto on every sentiment above! BlueFire was easily the best balance of thrill/comfort (which leads to ridiculous rerideablilty) that I can think of. You get off smiling and get right back in line! Not the most intense coaster by any means, but that isn't the ONLY thing that matters - there's a market for more of these. And most importantly - "not the most intense" does NOT mean boring. At Europa Park, Silver Star is a great example of a boring hypercoaster (how does that happen?) whereas BlueFire is exciting, but just not "I'm probably getting brain damage from this" intense.

 

Where do we send deposits for the Scandinavia trip?

[_koppen]

The ride has been changed!

 

It will now drop out of the station right in to a right side corkscrew.

That will jump up the number of inversions to 7