Too many complaints about Disney?

[jackskellington101]

I normally vehemently dislike Jim Hill, but this article really hit me today. To sum it up, WDI is purposefully ignoring the online criticism posted by the passionate Disney fan community, specifically the first impressions by cast and early riders of F'n Mania at Hollywood Studios. Jim Hill then took one of the complaints, apparently bad acoustics, and forwarded it to WDI, where the Imagineer then ripped a new one into the whole community and the people who scrutinize their work, with lovely quotes like

How typical. We spend $70 million to build this damned attraction, then pile on the theming. Even go so far as to try and match the color of those hand-kilned bricks that Steve Jobs selected to build Pixar Studios out of. But do we get praised for our efforts? For our years & years of hard work? No. We get bitched at for the one thing that we got wrong.

and

That's what I think your readers need to understand. When it comes to Walt Disney World, we're not out to please the annual passholders. Our goal here is service the tens of millions of other guests for whom a Disney World vacation is a once-in-a-lifetime experience.

 

Now I know this is Jim Hill and he writes things as sensationalist as possible to garner readers, but I'm curious what the more sensible heads of TPR think of this. Do we complain too much about things that the normal person would never see or think about? Do those things that the normal person would never see or think about really matter? Personally, the answers to those questions are sometimes and yes. People who really are into Disney parks and go a lot have a tendency to nit pick on many things. I'm guilty of this myself. However, I do very much believe that those little things are the things that make Disney different. It's their competitive advantage. Without them, they're a park like anything else. The complaints can go too far sometimes, but they also shouldn't be ignored. One quote that I found in all this that made me go "how times have changed":

 

"Whenever I go on a ride, I'm always thinking of what's wrong with the thing and how it can be improved" - Walt Disney

 

As an obvious fan of WDI's work, I find that thinking expressed in the article as somewhat dangerous. My direct response to the complaint, though, is if you want to stop the criticism, do something to shut them up. If you please the community, you'll please the "normal guest". Look at Everest, Mission: Space, Indiana Jones Adventure, Soarin' over California, and pretty much anything that's opened in Tokyo. They're all universally applauded and they're all extremely popular. Make that in the states. The hardcore’s won't complain about your work and the general public will be floored. Best of both worlds. The "aiming for the once in a lifetime guest" argument feels like an excuse for going for the lowest common denominator. If you make an amazing experience, maybe that once in a lifetime will become more than once. Those annual passholders and DVC members are also the ones who will visit and spend their money no matter what the situation. The once in a lifetime people, not so much. If you completely isolate and ignore the people who are in your target and most care about your product, you will lose them and lose a lot of people with them.

 

I understand this is hard work for the men and women of Imagineering, though many faces of adversity. What really is the sticking point is we know what WDI can create. We know that they can create amazing attractions that blow the lid off of anything that any other facility can make, but that ability just feels so stifled in the States right now. The criticism stems from that. Of course, a good many of them are nit pickers as well who will never be happy. But, in my opinion, this line of thinking is not good. However, this is Jim Hill, so probably the person is having a bad day and sent the wrong thing at the wrong time. What do you guys think?

[mcjaco]

In short. Yes.

 

Although I don't think what they've come up with in the last few years (Expedition Everest being an exception) all that impressive, it's still better than anything anyone else comes up with (yes, IOA is cool).

 

As I've gotten older I've learned to love what is there and enjoy it, because really, you won't find an experience like it anywhere else. I miss attractions like Horizons, the original Journey, Kitchen Kabaret, 20,000 Leagues, Country Bear Jamboree (when it sounded good), but that doesn't mean I don't love what's there now. Perhaps it's not as magical, but it's still my favorite places to be in the world.

 

You take the good with the bad. I'm probably one a handful of people that just does not think Soarin' is good. But somehow, they hit the nail on the head, so perhaps that Imagineer is right. The GP loves it, so perhaps the fanatics should shut the heck up.

[Hilltopper39]

Yes

 

I'm with Mcjaco here, the most recent stuff isn't that great (including everest in my opinion) but all in all give the complaints a rest. I mean I think a lot of the Disney classics are really starting to get a little dated and Jack Sparrow animatronic here and new scene or two there doesn't hurt a thing.

[SharkTums]

I totally agree with whoever that was that said "we're not building rides for you, we're building them for the 10's of millions of families".

 

That is 100% Correct and the Right thing to do!

 

I think that all enthusiasts are guilty of the mentality that unless Park X builds the best coaster or dark ride, it's crap! Luckily I think most people on this site understand that concept. A lot of other enthusiast sites do NOT understand that concept and Jim Hill is a great example of that.

 

Do I like that Six Flags is putting in tons of family coasters and no more El Toros...HELL NO! Do I agree that it's a much better idea to get a family coaster at most of these parks than an El Toro...of course I do!

 

How many people are going to get off of F'ing Mania and say "Damn, did anyone else notice that the acoustics in the 4th room seemed a bit off?"

 

NO OF COURSE NOT!!!!

 

Once again, the Disney enthusiasts make me feel better about myself!

 

We're all guilty of complaining, but not to this level!

[Meteornotes]

I haven't read the article (Jim Hill's writing makes my face hurt), but isn't "bad acoustics" a somewhat valid complaint? If ride audio is bad, that does negatively impact the experience, no matter how often someone visits the parks.

 

I think some complaining is valid, some is nitpicking. I do often think that this industry needs a bit more well thought out criticism, as not everything is the greatest attraction ever just because it's at a Disney park (see: Stitch).

 

dt

[Bucket]

TSM looks rather bland (it reminded me of being at the grocery store going from one lane to the other with giant projection screens). Granted, that's what this ride was being advertised as in the beginning so what is one to expect? But I think an AA throughout the ride here or there would have been nice and maybe added a bit more "umph" to it. Of course, I'm just going by a crappy video on YouTube and the 3D effect must obviously be experienced in person to get the full effect, so the ride itself might still be amazing... who knows! We'll just have to wait!

 

With that said, I think WDI have done a great job with their attractions. (ie: DISNEYSEA, Tower of Terror at DisneySea, EE, Soarin'... etc) There aren't any other theme parks in the world (with the exception of maybe Universal parks) that does it like Disney does it. Hardcore Disney fans are simply spoiled and have overly high expectations of what rides should entail and never seem to realize that Disney creates spectacular attractions. WDI could build the most amazing ride, but there will always be those who will nitpick and complain about the most trivial details.

 

I agree with Jim Hill wholeheartedly and I'm glad he was harsh in doing so.

[Carnage]

This kind of criticism is somewhat of a byproduct of success.

 

When you set the bar so high, it's just natural that anything less then perfection is going to be complained about. When people are used to an A+ attraction, something that is an A, or B isn't going to have the same affect.

 

As enthusiasts I'd say we're very spoiled. We judge everything on a much higher scale. It's due to this that I'd say that no park should really market anything towards an enthusiast. We're a minority.

[Erik Johnson]

Just remember that if you criticize something too much, they may remove it.

 

Bird on a Stick...R.I.P.

[jackskellington101]

I agree with what y'all are saying. With the whole thing, I'm in a conflict. In some way, I agree with what Imagineer says. There are many people, some specifically that are high profile that I won't mention, that annoy me to no end with their complaints because they seem so asinine and points fingers in illogical places.

 

I think some complaining is valid, some is nitpicking. I do often think that this industry needs a bit more well thought out criticism, as not everything is the greatest attraction ever just because it's at a Disney park (see: Stitch).

 

dt

That's my exact conflict and agree wholeheartedly. It creates the attitude of "we're right and you're wrong, so take it and be happy", which is also a bad path.

 

I understand the building for the millions who visit and not the few fervent people, but what's the problem with building for both of them? It may be more expensive, but it has a greater chance of being more successful. And these little tiny things that the hardcore pick up are things that can be very easily tweaked to make a greater experence. If you have to choose, obviously choose the millions, but I believe that you should always treat those millions like they are the fanatics who will pick up everything.

 

I agree with mcjaco that Disney does have the best experence out of anyone else. But the statement "I don't think what they've come up with in the last few years (Expedition Everest being an exception) all that impressive" still says they can be better. I guess that's where I stand on that. Is it fantastic as is? I believe it is. Can it be better? Obviously it can and I agree. Should it be that better? Absolutely. As silly as it sounds, being the best shouldn't be the stopping point.

 

So really, I guess my stance on this matter, is both of them are right and both are wrong. And with that non-committal answer, I've proven myself to be a real economist and businessman.

 

Oh, and my personal worry about F'n Mania is not as much the acoustics, but that people are going to get off and go "So, that's it? It's just a bunch of screens." But I also haven't rode it, I've only seen a POV. So it could be sex in ride form and I have no idea.

[ghost007jas]

They're both right, and they're both wrong as far as I'm concerned.

 

Yes, hardcore Disney fans whine far too much about things that really don't matter. But then, I would hardly call an acoustical problem "minor", that's a pretty big deal.

 

On a side note, where did "F'ing Mania" come from? I just find it interesting that people say that enthusiasts complain too much but then referring to the ride they haven't experienced rather rudely..

[jackskellington101]

^ I believe F'n Mania is a Wesism that came out of the naming conundrum when the name kept flip flopping from Toy Story Mania to Midway Mania and back every 20 minutes. Though I could be mistaken, that is the legend and lore. The nickname has no connotation to any perceptions to the quality of the attraction. The name just is.

[ghost007jas]

^ Oh okay, gotcha.

 

I take back my previous statement, haha.

[arrowfanman]

^ I believe F'n Mania is a Wesism that came out of the naming conundrum when the name kept flip flopping from Toy Story Mania to Midway Mania and back every 20 minutes. Though I could be mistaken, that is the legend and lore. The nickname has no connotation to any perceptions to the quality of the attraction. The name just is.

 

This is true.

 

 

 

 

I think the idea that "You can't please everybody" comes with the job. Any work where you present to an audience, you're going to leave someone unimpressed. Might as well be the enthusiasts who will love you in the end, anyway!

 

-Jahan

[Holtskee]

Overall I would say YES to the poll question, however there is no denying that the quality level of the attractions they have pumped out over the last decade or so has slipped. Their newer attractions just don't "feel Disney" like the older ones do.

 

Seems like Imagineering took a turn for the worst in the mid-90s. I've always felt that Splash Mountain and the (WDW) Tower of Terror were the last truly great Disney rides with the so-called "magic" or whatever you want to say it is.

 

That said, I'm not really one to bitch about minor insignificant changes around the parks that don't really effect the grand scheme of things.

[k_peek_2000]

I am beginning to see a whole new side to these Imagineers. A not so pleasent side. On youtube I posted a comment saying that Toy Story Mania was alright. The next thing you know I get messages from people who claim to work for and with Imagineering, that were very threating and completely unprofessional. And I always admired WDI and for some time wanted to be an Imagineer, and if you see my Youtube channel you would be able to tell. Well this employee with connection to WDI showed my videos to WDI and said I was a joke and a laughing stock and I would never work for them.

 

Of coarse then again this could be some a****** just posing but the way he presented himself just didn't seem like it.

[Jew]

Assuming Jim Hill didn't make these quotes up...Disney brings this upon themselves. They created the monster by selling AP's/selling a bunch of collectible crap/hosting merch events/creating DVC/etc. I would guess at least 1 million turnstile clicks per year per, per park, come from people who are either Disney freaks and/or DVC members. So while many of their complaints are nitpicking ("omg...there's a small paint chip missing!!!"), it's probably not a good idea to blow them off either.

 

And like others have mentioned...if there really is a problem with the sound, that's far from a minor nitpick. If you can hear previous/future scenes to the point where it's a distraction, I can see why people think that takes away from the experience.

[DATman]

I think there needs to be some middle ground between leaving them alone and simply nitpicking at every little detail. I mean, go over to Mice Age and read the threads about Midway Mania. They're just excessive. I can completely see why WDI would be so sick of it. It seems to them that there is nothing that can possible be done to please that community.

 

Spend 100 million on a ride with one of the most gorgeous exteriors and they complain about the (unfinished) queue. Build an indoor queue with lots of nice set pieces and little details and they complain about the story/immersion in the ride. Hell, those people despised Buzz Lightyear (for no apparent reason except that the interactivity detracts from the ride experience or something along those lines). In my opinion, if Imagineering dishes out a ride that is in every way awful (a la Superstar Limo), then they deserve criticism. But if it is only the smallest things that a Disney hardcore fan will notice, then there is no reason to complain.

[VivaLaVibora]

I'm going to take this general as in all amusements including carnivals. Why do I complain about a carnival ride not having head cushions for your head? It's because it's hurts really bad. Why was it annoying to not have music on Batman the Ride at SFMM?

 

The reason is because it's makes the ride more exciting to me with the music pumping you up before you go on the ride. I don't really care if the fan moved, or they put fog machine in the tunnel, but the music is something that greats for that ride. The fog machine was at SFGAm, and I don't know if they ever had any at SFMM. Why does it bug me at SFGAm that they take the graffati away from the line?

 

The reason is because you can look at it when you are in line. It gives you something to do. At other Six Flags parks, there graffati is what I would typical graffati (that I can remember - SFOT, SFMM, SFStL). SFGAm had Cubs, Sox, Bulls, American Flag, Mickey Mouse, Joker, and stuff I can relate to. It was fun looking at it, and the theme of the line made sense. The city is bad, and Batman needs to save it.

 

For Big Thunder, if that goat didn't make noise at Disneyland I wouldn't think I would really care. If the snake didn't move it's tail, it's not a real big deal. It's cool when it works, but it's not life and death to me. Stuff just goes haywire overtime, and sometimes these parks don't want to put the money into fixing them. They don't feel they are important to fix.

 

So, should I blame the company for not fixing the snake, or goat? No. I don't think it's a big deal. I think the Batman music is more of a big deal though, and now it plays at SFMM. SFGAm shut the waterfall off of at the Demon at SFGAm because people think it has to do with the rocks are being degraded, or something. I kind of forget it was ever on.

 

Now, does it make a good appearance? I think it does. I think people will go by it more, and say that looks cool. Maybe, they will try it.

[TheRapidsNerd]

Maybe we can take an artist's perspective here.

 

The artist makes the art to the very best of their ability, puts it out for the public, and keeps in mind that "everyone's a critic". If people like it, they like it, if they don't, you go on to the next artistic work. You say ok and learn from what didn't work.

 

I like the Disney quote. Art is never finished and can always stand improvement. The trick is knowing when to say when on "improving" and balancing that with your patrons' reaction to your work.

 

Just a couple random observations here.

[ginzo]

Overall I would say YES to the poll question, however there is no denying that the quality level of the attractions they have pumped out over the last decade or so has slipped. Their newer attractions just don't "feel Disney" like the older ones do.

 

This is probably true on some levels, but they also built TDS in the past decade. That's got to count for something.

[rosscoe]

Overall I would say YES to the poll question, however there is no denying that the quality level of the attractions they have pumped out over the last decade or so has slipped. Their newer attractions just don't "feel Disney" like the older ones do.

 

 

But see that's the point to you guys and crazed Disney fans, it may seem that the quality level has slipped, but the people who take there once every few years trip to Disney they don't see that.

 

It has been 14 years since the last time i stepped foot in a Disney park and i can say the next time i go, i don't care that Stiches Great Escape maybe crap and at Toy Story i might hear a tram from another room. The only thing i care about is that i will be at Disney

[padresguy619]

Idiots at Legoland always go crying to Guest Services and complain that I wouldn't let their kid on the ride. Why? He wasn't tall enough. Well then there you have it. Why complain if you're not going to get anything out of it. What's done is done.

[stingrock23]

The thing is, yes, they are held to a higher standard. But, they have to deal with the budgets that they are given. I think if they were given a mostly unlimited budget on most projects, then we'd get things that are much better than some of the things they've been putting out. I think they do what they can with what they're given. If you look around, they still put out most of the the best quality attractions. Sometimes they do get lots of flak, and sometimes they put out some not-so-good attractions, but there are also other factors that go into those.

[The Disneylander]

I say that it is our job as responsible members of the enthusiast community to point out things that are wrong and CONSTRUCTIVELY SUGGEST WAYS TO FIX IT.

[rosscoe]

I say that it is our job as responsible members of the enthusiast community to point out things that are wrong and CONSTRUCTIVELY SUGGEST WAYS TO FIX IT.

 

Um, just because they may seem wrong to you, does not mean they are wrong for everyone and i am sorry, but this is not your job, if you don't like a certain ride, don't ride it.