Cedar Point (CP) Discussion Thread

[robbalvey]

Just a thought on the launch vs lift debate.

 

In my opinion, if the train is traveling at a constant speed up the lift, then it is a lift, regardless of the means it uses to get to the top - chain, cable, lsm's. If the train is accelerating up the lift hil, then it is a launch.

 

IE - Maverick has one lifthill and one launch.

Agreed. Just look at the image CP released:

"105 foot tall LIFT HILL"

 

--Robb "Calling that a launch is just a marketing gimmick, IMO." Alvey

[Adriel]

70mph! WOW! That's sure fast! And I think the 95 degrees drop will be just for a second! It's only a 100-150 feet hill and the lift chain is fast!

[BeemerBoy]

Lift Hill, huh? Well, in that case, I can't wait to be "lifted" out of Hulk's tunnel next month.

[DarkStitch626]

Robb is this gonna turn into an Aquatrax debate lol. Sorry couldn't resist.

 

Yea I think solidly due to consistant speed its a lift. Theres no way around it!

[BeemerBoy]

[robbalvey]

Lift Hill, huh? Well, in that case, I can't wait to be "lifted" out of Hulk's tunnel next month.

 

Hulk's "launch" accelerates from 0 to 40MPH quite FAST. I don't see Maverick doing the same.

 

From the Official Universal Orlando website:

Feel The Rage! Something has gone wrong with Dr. Bruce Banner's gamma-ray accelerator. Suddenly you're launched from zero to 40 mph in two seconds flat! All you can do is hold on as an angry Hulk roar fills your ears and you smash through the sky on a high-speed roller coaster rampage.

 

and from the Maverick official website:

Maverick is Cedar Point’s newest roller coaster! Traveling over 4,450 feet of steel tubular track, riders will feel the excitement as their train ascends up a 105-foot lift hill, propelled by linear synchronous motors

 

You do see the difference in those two descriptions....right? RIGHT?

 

If Maverick's lift was indeed a "launch" ala, Hulk-style, why would there be official CP artwork and descriptors calling it a "105 Foot Lift Hill?" Technically you can say it was "launched up the lift hill" the same way Big Thunder Mountain is "launched out of the station" or how California Screamin is "launched up the 2nd lift hill" but it's not a true "launch" in the sense of what the general public will consider the definition of the word.

 

I'm betting that, when the ride opens, if you ask mr. Random Person of the General Public "How did you like the launch?" they will say "Yeah, the tunnel launch was GREAT" and you say "no, no...I meant the launch up the lift hill." and then they will look at you with that same dumbfounded expression as when they are in the 10 items or less line thinking "Does the 6 pack of Coke count as one item....or 6?"

 

I stand by what I said....

 

"If that is considered a 'launch' then I will make every effort for Big Thunder Mountain to also be considered a LIM launched coaster!"

 

--Robb "You do realize that Big Thunder Mountain was the first coaster to use LIMs, right?" Alvey

[Stealth]

i have officially changed my mind about the launch/lift debate, i agree that the fact the train is travelling at a constant speed and not being accelerated proves it is not a launch it is a lift.

[DarkStitch626]

*Waits till this hits page 240* Dang lol...I just had a thought for the anti roll back situation. At the base of the lift are a set of brakes proberably,there are also feeder wheels to bring the train to the lift base. Now saying these are LSM motor, or LIM what ever..Wouldn't they be able to do like the brakes on an Intamin hydralic launch coaster and slow you down apon rolling backwards? Hyping the power to them could increase flow of energy thus being able to slow it down or bring it backwards by reversing polarity?

[BeemerBoy]

Robb, you and Cedar Point can enjoy the hill whichever way you like. There's really no reason to go in circles about it. I'm just saying that in my book, LSMs and LIMs "propel" trains, not "lift" them, as a cable or liftchain would. And the way I remember it (sorry, I'm not capable of watching the video on this computer here), the last set of LIMs have to somewhat propel the train over the apex of the hill, thus "launching" forward, not "lifting." It's obviously not Hulk-ish, but enough to fit my definition.

 

But heh, to each his own. I'll just enjoy both launches the same way you and others will enjoy the lift hill and launch.

 

 

Scott "no biggie" B.

[robbalvey]

Robb, you and Cedar Point can enjoy the hill whichever way you like. There's really no reason to go in circles about it.

Please don't EVER tell me how I'm suppose to post or respond to something, ok? I don't think ANYONE here appreciates being told by you what they should or shouldn't be discussing. I know I speak for several people here when I say quite a few of us are sick of hearing your "my opinion is right, yours is wrong attitude" you've had on a number of different things lately....

 

If you notice, I present an opinion with a bit of factual or at least "informative" data, as in the example above, and don't really criticize anyone even if they disagree. You don't seem to possess that ability and many times your "opinions" come off as border line "flames." We don't allow that kind of discussion here.

 

--Robb "Why don't you go make another smart ass signature while you're at it?" Alvey

[DarkStitch626]

Holy crap..*laughs butt off* that is all...

[ParkTrips]

On Hulk, you can feel the acceleration as you speed up. It's also clocking in at around 40 mph at the top. Looking at the video, it looks like the train will keep a steady pace going up the lift, and with a speed of 57 at the bottom of the drop, I doubt it will be moving that fast.

 

Therefore, I just don't see where the two would fit in the same category.

[TexTitan01]

^^^ SHUT DOWN

 

So yea, to add in my opinion of the whole "lift or launch?" debate, I think its just a lift, a very fast lift, that uses LSMs. Thats it. We could debate for pages and pages on if its a lift or launch, but theres other things to discuss, like favorite train! Since there's 6, and the subject of trains seems to have quite a spotlight, I'll bet there will be discussions in line amongst people like:

"lets ride the brass train!"

"but I want the gold train!"

"GUNMETAL DAMMIT!!!"

 

I will make it my personal objective to ride all 6 trains before I die

 

-Tex

[Skier]

I dunno about the launch/lift. From the video it looks to be nothing more than a lift like action, but looking at the photos there is, even though a little, a train length amount straight track that dosn't have anything on it. There may be a nice little boost twords the end giving it a launch feel.

 

But other than that it looks like a bunch of bad No Limits transitions with some really nice elements. Guess we'll see.

[DarkStitch626]

Could the reason for a faster lift also be to increase pph, people per ride per hour?

[TPDave]

I would have assumed it's just for the unique sensation, but has the advantage of a possible higher throughput. But really if the second section (after the tunnel) is longer than the first then it will make no difference at all. The sections are generally the time it takes to unload and load a train etc. so the throughput won't be increased much (if at all) by the LSM lift.

[okinawaboy11]

Sorry, I'm not impressed.

[Worm]

^Why not?

 

I'm so impressed i think it will surpass MF and raptor. It has a fun layout and isn't too thrilling for the bystanders so they will actually consider rideing it!

[coasterbill]

I'm slightly less than enthused about this coaster actually, but I will reserve judgement until I ride it.

[TheArchfiend]

^

Are you guys that are not overly impressed with the coaster at least a little bit excited that the park is going to make a serious attempt at theming? Atleast from what the video showed anyway.

 

I was more thrilled over the theming of this coaster then the ride itself, which I might add still looks very good.

 

I'm more than pleased that this park is doing more than dropping a good coaster between some trees or ontop of asphault.

[Reon]

My take on the Liftlaunch: I'll count it. You all are forgetting the innitial launch that boosts it up to the actual lift hill. Also, there is a huge gap between the last piece of LSM and the tip of the hill. I'm sure the train would need to speed up to make it over that...

 

But lets adress the more important issue: EIGHT airtime-filled hills? There are only 6 hills on the entire ride. Unless they're including the corkscrews, which would be pretty sweet. Yay upsidedown airtime!

[redunzelizer]

But after the brakes slow it too a halt, you still need something to hold it there, unless the LSMs can do that as well, and what happens if the LSMs fail, or the power goes out?

I agree with that, there should be something to mechanically hold the train in case the LSM's fail, but I don't know for sure if they can do that. Does anybody else know?

Backup Generator. that's logical.

Unless there stupid, they would have a mechanical backup, not just a backup genarator, so the train won't roll back if the LSMs fail without the power cutting out.

 

They certainly will utilize the very same Intamin Foam Brakes that already have been seen on EGF, which are totally inert to power outage by nature.

 

[DarkStitch626]

Horray for magnetics! lol

[BrownStreak]

I am confused by the six trains- where are the blocks? One in load- one in unload- one in the 1st launch section- one in the 2nd launch section- where are the other two?

[CP_RULES]

I am confused by the six trains- where are the blocks? One in load- one in unload- one in the 1st launch section- one in the 2nd launch section- where are the other two?

 

Your missing the final brake run and probably a holding area before the un-load area. I can see either a lot of stacking like TTD, or not running all six trains all the time.