Cedar Point (CP) Discussion Thread

[southpuddle]

Didn't Iron Dragon crash two trains together at one point (during testing) and it's gone without the third train ever since? I seem to remember something like that...

[coasterbill]

No, that would be the other Arrow in your avatar. It's gone back to 3 trains though. I would think BigDipper 80 is probably right, and the appeal of using the other train as a parts train may have played a factor too.

[DrachenfireOP]

^From experience, I can tell you that operating ID with three trains was a nightmare. The dispatch time was something like 20 seconds during three-train operation, and if you missed interval you'd set up the ride. If that happened, a train would stop on the second lift, so a ride op would have to run from the platform down the spiral stairs, through the forest and out to the second lift. When you got out there, you had to pick up and hang up the phone so the person in controls knew you were there, and then you'd have to hold down the lift jog button to reset the lift. THEN you'd have to run back to the platform and hopefully make it back before the third train out on the block brake parked in the station or you'd set up the ride again and have to run back out to the second lift.

 

I can't vouch for whether that's the reason they went back to two trains (I've heard alternately that it had something to do with "standardization across CF parks" because Bat and Vortex run two trains, never mind that they can ONLY run two trains), but it was not fun doing three train ops on ID. Even with instructing guests that there were no bins, they'd still invariably walk across the train looking for bins, or they'd fumble around looking for nonexistent seatbelts, or their kids would be fidgeting so it often ended up being hard to hit interval.

 

Ugh, why did Arrow insist on short changing brake runs on so many of their rides? We had the identical problem at LNM when I used to work there. Our dispatch interval was around 30 seconds. We had a bit longer than ID before risking a setup (typically the next train needed to be out before the one in front left the first loop) but not by much. They still run LNM at 3 trains, but they tuned the 1st lift down to half speed to add about an extra minute of dispatch time to prevent setups (that's why it can't do the famous "double loopers" anymore sadly).

 

Orient Express was the same problem, except that ride didn't have two lift hills, and they had it even worse because instead of a starter pannel for the lifts, those ops had to actually clime up to the C block brakes to reset the ride. I really don't understand that about Arrow. I'm glad BBW and DF had enough brake runs to fully stack. But ID is new enough that the lesson should have been learned already :/

[christianscoasters]

^Not exactly. Industry operations have drastically changed since then. There was no need for additional brakes to stack because stacking was rare. They could efficiently run 3-train coasters without setting up. Then came air gates, seatbelts, physical checks of safety restraints instead of visual checks, loose article bins... Arrow didn't design many of their coasters with extra brakes because it just wasn't necessary. You could get a train out in 20 seconds easily. Gemini was made to run 6 trains total with an astronomically high capacity of over 3,000 an hour (rumored to be 4,000, however. It hasn't ran 6 in a long time), but it could do it without setting up.

[DavidW]

Did they add any track pieces today?

Nope. Mainly worked on prepping the MCBR

[comet]

Very nice trip report! Thanks for braving the cold and getting some great behind the scene shots. Valravn looks awesome coming down the midway.

[BigDipper 80]

^^^ Interestingly (perhaps) is that Magnum is also designed to set up if a train stops on the block outside the last tunnel. Before they put in the new controls, you also had to run over to that block brake to release the train, and you'd have to call the office and report it. Arrows live in their own little world.

[coasterbill]

Luckily that's rare because when Magnum comes to a stop on those brakes it comes to a ridiculously abrupt screeching halt. With the new locker policy and the great ops though it's rarely a problem.

[boldikus]

^ Out of my only 2 (awesome) rides on Magnum it did stop there on one of them and yes it was sudden and slightly painful. We were in row two and in front of us were a couple of regulars that were shocked it happened.

[prozach626]

That track piece is kind of like my life: lonely and always being left out

 

Nooooo, it just means that you're part of a really awesome bigger picture that just hasn't come together yet!

 

Wrong. That's not always true. He could suck forever.

[DrachenfireOP]

^Not exactly. Industry operations have drastically changed since then. There was no need for additional brakes to stack because stacking was rare. They could efficiently run 3-train coasters without setting up. Then came air gates, seatbelts, physical checks of safety restraints instead of visual checks, loose article bins... Arrow didn't design many of their coasters with extra brakes because it just wasn't necessary. You could get a train out in 20 seconds easily. Gemini was made to run 6 trains total with an astronomically high capacity of over 3,000 an hour (rumored to be 4,000, however. It hasn't ran 6 in a long time), but it could do it without setting up.

 

Everything you said is true, but setups were always possible. They've become more frequent, but saying "nothing could ever happen to delay boarding for a moment" is a huge oversight. There's much and more about Arrow designs that assumed a constant stream of best case scenarios which is just bad engineering. There's many Arrow brake runs that are perfectly level (such as the MCBR on LNM) that use a small winch mechanism to slowly restart a stopped train there. Why would you build the station and ready brakes at a slope but not the block brakes? The answer is "well its only supposed to stop there in emergencies..." but restarting is a pain and it's a total non issue to angle the brakes 3 degrees to prevent the issue so why they ever did it level is beyond me. I love Arrow but they really did some things that made things unnecessarily more complicated. Even after parks started asking for stacking ability (which started in the early 80s, long before policy changes) they didn't do it with consistency. BBW had 3 train stacking but I'D doesn't, and that to me is silly and unnecessary.

[BigDipper 80]

^I don't know if it's because of the design or because of how it's operated, but I've always found it bizarre that The Bat doesn't have enough time to clear the block brake without causing the train on the lift to slow to a crawl. It takes so long for the second train to get around the turn into the station that the other train practically parks itself on the lift hill.

[DorneyKid14]

That track piece is kind of like my life: lonely and always being left out

 

Nooooo, it just means that you're part of a really awesome bigger picture that just hasn't come together yet!

 

Wrong. That's not always true. He could suck forever.

 

Im gonna go with what prozach626 said...

[neil009]

That track piece is kind of like my life: lonely and always being left out

 

Nooooo, it just means that you're part of a really awesome bigger picture that just hasn't come together yet!

 

Wrong. That's not always true. He could suck forever.

 

Im gonna go with what prozach626 said...

 

It's true, your life could end up slightly redundant, with one big exciting moment followed by a short, unfulfilling experience. At least you won't have to wait in line long.

[CoasterDirected]

^This thread just became rather depressing...

[CP Maverick]

^This thread just became rather depressing...

The bottom of Valravn's 2nd vertical drop is being installed right now.

[jonskinny12]

^I don't know if it's because of the design or because of how it's operated, but I've always found it bizarre that The Bat doesn't have enough time to clear the block brake without causing the train on the lift to slow to a crawl. It takes so long for the second train to get around the turn into the station that the other train practically parks itself on the lift hill.

 

I noticed this on my trip to KI last year and thought it was pretty strange and annoying.

[CoasterLine]

From the bottom up once again. Two new track pieces and a new support.

Construction Progress as of January 29, 2016

[DoinItForTheFame]

It's going to awesomesauce!

Edited January 29, 2016 by DoinItForTheFame

[Password121]

^I know you're excited (and I am too!) but posts like that are just going to start more flame wars about whether or not this will be a good ride, if B&M coasters are forceless, etc. because we don't "all know" it's going to be amazing. It's rehashing what we've finally ended and the thread is finally better than the Darien Lake and Great Adventure thread

 

Thanks for the screenshot though. Solid progress recently.

[ImNotOneOfYou]

I'm considering the run & ride in June. Does anyone have experience with it and/or the crowds around that time?

[coasterbill]

^^ Wait so now people who are excited about the coaster need to stop being excited and enthusiastic so that the people that whine about everything don't see there enthusiasm as an excuse to whine more?

 

Sorry but screw that.

[Password121]

^^ Wait so now people who are excited about the coaster need to stop being excited and enthusiastic so that the people that whine about everything don't see there enthusiasm as an excuse to whine more?

 

Sorry but screw that.

The original post was edited before your reply. The context is completely different and I had no intentions of calling him out at all.

[Guy T. Koepp]

^It's reverse psychcology. Setting your expectations very low, so you are always impressed.

[coasterbill]

Oh okay good because I thought we'd hit a new low, lol.