The Six Flags Magic Mountain (SFMM) Discussion Thread

[WFChris]

I just want to point out that the water rides are all very family friendly (no height restriction on Log Jammer or Yosemite Sam even...). With Roaring Rapids, Jet Stream, and Tidal Wave at 42", you have a little bit of selection around the park for the families. Sure, they are not coasters but it IS something (that they have not removed yet!).

 

If you include those rides, I definitely think SFMM is still a satisfying family day that exceeds the *thrills* of the local mall. Sure, the focus seems to be on the teenagers, but there ARE things to do. I also agree that when compared to DLR and KBF, SFMM doesnt rank too well. I just noticed that nobody mentioned the water rides, and I think they are a lot of fun, and cater to the 'height group of this discussion!'

 

Chris.

[SharkTums]

^See this is where I start having issues with height restrictions!!!

 

There is no way that Log Jammer should have no height restriction!!! That is a major ride, and should be at least 36" with an adult, 42" to ride alone (if not 48'').

 

Again, this goes along with other terrible height restrictions at the park. For example, I could put KT BY HERSELF on the Percy Train ride for like the last year...but I couldn't ride WITH HER on the other Kiddie Coaster!!?!?!

 

And again, several of the kids rides the child has to ride by themselves, how is that family friendly? Also, the quality of employees in Bugs Bunny World leaves a lot to be desired. The op on Pounce & Bounce during WCB could not speak or seem to understand English (she was from the international program) This is a MAJOR issue when dealing with parents and children. She also did not seem to understand the height requirements for the ride and was just letting anything go on!

 

I really never used to pay attention to this 'family friendly' thing, but now visiting parks ALL OVER THE WORLD with a two year old has really opened my eyes. Oh, and a park without a baby swap policy is already not family friendly!

[Guest]

Im sick of people trying to pass off Terminator as a family coaster, even Mark Shapiro said Evel Knievel would be a great hit with families. What kind of crack is he smoking, intense GCI coasters are NOT family coasters nor do they resemble family coasters in any way whatsoever. These would be super-headliner coasters at 99% of parks out there. Just because it has the same height requirement as Gold Rusher doesnt mean its going to target the same people, it just means Gold Rushers height requirement is too tall for the type of crowd the are trying to pass it off as.

 

I still find it funny that the main focus of Mark Shapiro's statement is that SFMM is becoming a more family friendly park and their next major addition is Terminator. I love kick-a** coasters and would not mind at all them building as many as they want, but if they really want to be a family park the 2010 coaster really should be a 36"-42" range.

[ebl]

"she was from the international program" (SharkTums)

 

Just to sidestep the family ride issue for a moment, exactly what is the purpose of the international program? All I've seen so far is ride attendants who can't speak English and seem to need help in performing their duties (in my observation, at least).

 

Eric

[AllenA07]

Does anybody know how minimum heights are chosen for a ride? Is this something that the park sets, the designer sets, or is it something more complex and is set by the state or insurance companies. I'd be curious to know, because I agree that some of the height restrictions at SFMM make no sense.

[Guest]

The manufacturer sets the height requirement but the park can change it as long as the changes are approved by DOSH (or whatever orginization they deal with) and the manufacturer. For example, Vekoma reccomends the Giant Inverted Boomerang height requirement be 52" but its 54" at the Six Flags Parks, then Silverwood made it 48."

The manufacturer has to sign off on loweing a height req.

 

Also Orbit at CGA is something rediculous like 54" but the one at SFGAm which is the exact same ride is still 42"

[robbalvey]

I just want to point out that the water rides are all very family friendly...If you include those rides, I definitely think SFMM is still a satisfying family day...

 

I disagree to some extent about the water rides as they are kind of "seasonal" in the sense that when it's too cold you don't want to ride them (do you really want to get your 3 year old all wet when it's 50 degrees out?) and many of them are closed during the off-season as the rapids and Tidal Wave are now.

 

But I do see your point and I agree with that. Even still, Six Flags Magic Mountain still is lacking in the 42" - 48" category. They probably have one of the smallest collection of "adult sized rides" with that height restriction in the entire Six Flags family.

 

I don't have time to go through all the parks, but just look at a park like Six Flags Over Texas.

 

Here are all the "adult sized rides*" a kid of 42" can ride at SFOT:

Aquaman Splashdown

Conquistador

Crazy Legs

El Aserradero

El Sombrero

Judge Roy Scream

La Fiesta de las Tazas

La Vibora

Mini Mine Train

Roaring Rapids

Shock Wave

Sidewinder

Texas Chute Out

The Gunslinger

The Runaway Mine Train

Tony Hawk’s Big Spin

YOSEMITE SAM’S GOLD RIVER ADVENTURE

SFOT Total = 17 "Adult Sized Rides*" for a kid 42"

 

Six Flags Great America:

The Dark Knight Coaster

Buccaneer Battle

Chubasco

Condor

Demon

East River Crawler

Fiddler’s Fling

Hometown Fun Machine

Logger’s Run

Ricochet

River Rocker

Roaring Rapids

The Jester’s Wild Ride

The Orbit

Triple Play

Whizzer

Yankee Clipper

SFgam Total = 17 "Adult Sized Rides*" for a kid 42"

 

Six Flags Magic Mountain:

Atom Smasher

Buccaneer

Grinder Gearworks

Jet Stream

Log Jammer

Ninja

Roaring Rapids

Scrambler

Swashbuckler

Tidal Wave

SFMM Total = 10 "Adult Sized Rides*" for a kid 42"

 

* For the sake of this comparison so it's more apples to apples, "Adult Sized Rides" are any rides NOT located in the kiddie areas and does not include transportation rides, carousels, bumper cars, wet-dry slides or antique cars as all three of these parks seem to have about the same amount of these kinds of rides, and they are arguably more for the 36" - 42" group. I *DID* include dark rides.

 

Like I said, I think SFMM had enough to do for the under 42" kids with Thomas, Bugs Bunny World, the Carousel, Log Jammer, a couple of basic flat rides, etc, and they absolutely have the 48" and up category covered, and I know I'm not saying anything the park isn't aware of, but they really do need more for the 42" to 48" kids.

 

SFMM has *one* roller coaster for that group - Ninja. Where SFGam was Whizzer, Demon, and Dark Knight. SFOT has two mine trains, Shock Wave, Judge Roy Scream, Tony Hawk, and La Vibora. And out of those 10 rides that SFMM has, 4 of them are water rides. So if it's cold outside, you're down to 6 rides in that category.

 

IMO, SFOT has the perfect balance of kiddie rides, family rides, and thrill rides out of any park in the Six Flags chain. If it hasn't been done already, all of the other parks who are lacking in any of these categories should take a look at what SFOT has to offer, and try to match as close as possible, to their ride line-up.

 

And don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that SFMM doesn't have stuff for the 42" group, I'm just saying I think that's the area they need to work on. I'd be a bit disappointed if the next few additions were for either the 48" or 54" group, or even the young toddlers.

 

Im sick of people trying to pass off Terminator as a family coaster, even Mark Shapiro said Evel Knievel would be a great hit with families.

I think this statement is correct, but misleading. I personally think the statement should be "Terminator will be a great hit with older families" meaning families who's youngest kids are around 9 years old.

 

Let's face it, a family of four who's kids are 9 and 11, will have a GREAT time riding that coaster together (along with many other SFMM coasters). But if you're a family of four who's kids are ages 6 and 9, you're going to be split up quite a bit throughout your day.

 

--Robb

 

ps. And SFMM isn't the only park where this is an issue. Even take a park like Holiday World as "family friendly" as they are considered, they don't have THAT much for the 42" - 48" group either. In fact, using the same criteria as above, I think SFMM actually has MORE adult sized rides for 42" - 48" than Holiday World does. So keep that in mind!

[atem122]

I think Terminator will pass off as a great "older family coaster." If you're just getting into thrill rides and you're going to sfmm with your family or a group of friends, chances are you're probably going to want to pass up on the B&M's (Excluding Batman [For the record I wouldn't ]) and head to maybe Revolution, Gold Rusher, or one of the woodies. IMO Terminator would look like much more fun to the average park goer, and it has a smaller height than colossus so the people just getting into thrills would rather ride it. Just my two cents though

[CreditCrazy]

My opinion:

 

I don't think they have enough family rides. Like Robb said on the last page, they have a lot of for 48" and definately 54", and even 36" but not 42" and above, but not yet at 48". That age group is where they're lacking.

 

IMO, a Wiggles World won't help. It is very limited. I would say 42" to 54" would not step foot or even bother looking at a Wiggles World. That limits it to toddlers to about 36". Even Thomas Town is pretty limited like a WW would be and you can tell (or at least I can) because that place (everytime I've seen it) is empty.

 

Family coasters! That is what they need. That is what they are missing. Maybe not even family coasters, but family rides/flats too.

 

 

Sure SFMM (and Knott's) need family coasters, but it's almost like it's a waste. Everyone knows to go to Disneyland for them. Not many people expect these parks to have them. If you have kids from a toddler to maybe 8 years old, why would you go to Knott's and SFMM when Disneyland is also right here?

 

The park needs them anyways just so there's something for everyone, and for kids that maybe live closer to SFMM than Disneyland...but even though this isn't a Knott's thread, they may be going overboard (not yet, but maybe soon). I think it's great that they've added Pony Express AND Sierra Sidewinder in the past couple years (and both of them are pretty fun/popular family rides) but I've heard rumors of a Vekoma Suspended Family Coaster and I hope that isn't true, because just another family ride won't help much and they're due for a new thrill ride.

 

Back to SFMM...that ( ^ ) is what I hope they won't do. I'm sure they won't, since it would take 2 family coasters to pull a ( ^ coughknott'scough) and I don't even think they would waste the space that they have for 2 family coasters...plus I'm sure several people would even rather have more flats in the park than 2 family coasters.

 

But SFMM has a lot of work to do to make it better and more popular families. I'm thinking it will be years until they get their next thrill ride (which they really don't need) but it really depends on how much money SF is willing to spend on the park for the next few years to add family rides/coasters (if they can stay in business ).

[X2coasterfreak]

I really don't understand the the of Terminator being a family ride. Yeah maybe the hight restriction is 48", but it is Terminator. Isn't that like I don't know a rated "R" movie? Would parents have there nine year old go on a ride that is based on a violent R rated movie? Like Papas said, it is an intense GCI roller coaster. I really do not at all understand the why they say it is a family ride when it is an intense ride and based on a violent R rated movie.

[AllenA07]

^As far as I know Terminator Salvation is going to be PG-13.

[rcroques]

"she was from the international program" (SharkTums)

 

Just to sidestep the family ride issue for a moment, exactly what is the purpose of the international program? All I've seen so far is ride attendants who can't speak English and seem to need help in performing their duties (in my observation, at least).

 

Eric

 

As much as I enjoyed my time working with some of the international workers... and the Brazilian party I went to as a result... I do have to agree that it doesn't seem to make too much sense.

 

I was a lead, and I do have to say that my international workers were some of the best in the park. But we can't forget that the girl that was struck by Scream! was also an international worker and I believe we can also agree that accident was due to a misunderstanding on her part of what she was instructed to do. From what I hear, she didn't speak or understand English very fluently.

 

Anyhow, I think that as much as Jay Thomas and company try to make it a family park, they have a long way to go. I think it can be done, but their heritage as a thrill park is going to be very, very difficult.

 

I wish Jay, Neal, and Tim the best of luck... if any management can do this, it's them.

 

Sincerely,

R.C.

[ghost007jas]

I believe that a very common misconception is that a "family ride" must appeal to childrean under eight years old - this definitely isn't the case! I know Disneyland is the token example, but... I'm going to use it anyway!

 

The height restriction for Big Thunder Mountain Railroad is only 40" and that's not just a ride that appeals to children under 8! That's a ride the ENTIRE FAMILY (which as has been mentioned already is what 'family friendly' truly is) can enjoy together!

 

I think Six Flags could use some attractions that fit into this bracket.. granted the trouble is that at Disneyland, Big Thunder is in the top tier of thrills, where-as a ride like Goldrusher at Magic Mountain won't appeal the whole family when the older kids are much more interested in Riddler's Revenge across the way..

 

It's a tough situation, that's a fact.

 

Oh, and I also think the International Program is an idea that conceptually doesn't sound bad.. but if the person can not speak English, well.. what good are they?

[dpxtreme]

When it comes to height requirements, IMO I would consider SFMM to be a lot like the Cedar Fair parks in the sense that there are not many 42" rides. Cedar Fair parks all seem to have higher requirements of identical rides to other companies. It was mentioned already, but outside of the specific kids areas which are designed for kids around 5 and younger, there is really nothing for the 42" 6-9 year old kids to do.

 

Kind of off topic, but when comparing identical rides from SFGam and CGA, Six Flags has overall a more family friendly atmoshphere.

 

The Orbit

CGA: 54"

SFGam: 42"

 

The Demon

CGA: 48"

SFGam: 42"

 

Fiddler's Fling/Centrifuge

CGA: 46" to ride alone

SFGam: 42" to ride alone

 

Drop Tower/Giant Drop (Just for the sake of comparison)

CGA: 54"

SFGam: 48"

 

After reading a lot of these posts, could the state of California might be pushing higher requirements for rides in their parks (although Cedar Fair seems to push them even higher)? I mean if you really look at it, SFDK, SFMM, CGA, and Knott's all seem to have higher requirements when compared to similar rides in other states. Another comparison to kind of confirm that would be Kong at SFDK is 54" while Thunderhawk at MiA is 52".

 

I kind of went off the SFMM trail, but kind of made my point.

[Paul_Hollibone]

I just thought I'd add an outsiders view on the discussion. Consider it a "GP" view. To me, with the exception of Bugs Bunny World and Thomas Town, there isn't a whole lot of kid attractions at the park. I'm not sure how extensive Bugs Bunny world is, but it seems to me as though it needs a bit of an overhaul, some new rides and a little re-theme

 

For the little ones though, what I feel SFMM needs is a mix of our Wiggles World at Dreamworld (especially a clone of the Big Red Car dark ride, it really is a great ride) and the flat ride/ show portion of the Wiggles Worlds at the Six Flags parks. That then caters for the 2-9 year olds, then a re-brand/ theme of Bugs Bunny world to cater for the slightly older kids. They could chuck in a vekoma kids coaster (hard to link on the iPhone, but a ride like the Road Runner Rollercoaster at Movie World, plus a selection of new small thrill rides (such as a gravitron, and other similar styles of rides seen in the various Nick Central themed areas in other parks.

 

Anyway, that's my view, obviously having never have been to the park I am not totally sure of the parks young kids and tween offerings, so don't shoot me down if I have it all wrong.

[BeachKidBoy]

I believe that a very common misconception is that a "family ride" must appeal to childrean under eight years old - this definitely isn't the case! I know Disneyland is the token example, but... I'm going to use it anyway!

 

The height restriction for Big Thunder Mountain Railroad is only 40" and that's not just a ride that appeals to children under 8! That's a ride the ENTIRE FAMILY (which as has been mentioned already is what 'family friendly' truly is) can enjoy together!

 

I think Six Flags could use some attractions that fit into this bracket.. granted the trouble is that at Disneyland, Big Thunder is in the top tier of thrills, where-as a ride like Goldrusher at Magic Mountain won't appeal the whole family when the older kids are much more interested in Riddler's Revenge across the way..

 

It's a tough situation, that's a fact.

 

Oh, and I also think the International Program is an idea that conceptually doesn't sound bad.. but if the person can not speak English, well.. what good are they?

[Bolliger&Mabillard]

Yosimite Sam's River Adventure at SFOT was actually one of my personal favorites in the park. Sure the quality could have been better, but for what it was, it was a beautiful ride, with an original story and fun for just about anybody who rides it. For somereason there is no urgency for any park in the chain to mimic this ride. I'd lie to see one here, but one can dream...

 

As for the internationals...when I worked there I asked about it, and how it was explained to me is that it's hard for them to run at full capacity without the additional staffing. Most of the park's seasonal employees come from either the San Fernando or Antelope Valley, which either isn't all that close, and convincing alot of people to commute upwards of 30 minute for 8 bucks an hour isn't as enticing as one would think.

 

Of course this is how it was explained to me. I could have been misinformed, but this was the answer I received from management.

[WFChris]

^ In Yosemite, we were required to maintain 20% international staff at all times. This was because the area is considered a 'World Heritage Site.' I do not believe SFMM falls under this category, but what you said in your post is probably accurate. It is not easy to convince somebody to drive a half hour to clean toilets for 8 dollars an hour. International employees (usually) come from places where $8 is good money, and you will get better work out of them.

 

Just my thoughts.

 

Chris.

[themeparkman25]

I know in the skin industry, Vail resorts and the other companies travel abroad and bring in large numbers of employees to work the mountains and in return they get entry in, decent pay and housing all supplied by the parent company.

 

Does SFMM do the same, or even six flags in general?

[Jew]

Regarding California state law...

 

DOSH only requires that the manufacturer approve it, SOP's get updated, and it is proven to be safe. For example, if they were to lower the height requirement at Gold Rusher, all that would be required is a new SOP from Arrow, new SOP's written for the ride ops, and test cycling for DOSH to approve it.

[ebl]

^ I know a technical writer out of work who could write such a thing...

 

<--- Hint.

 

Eric

[Thelegendarymatthew]

With going what Robb said a few pages back. I really agree!

 

Family rides also help bring kids around those ages (was it like 6-8?) into the other rides as they grow higher. They can't be put on Caynon Blaster and Gold Rusher, and expect them to go on Goliath without a fear in the world. If you want proof, my little brother had to work his way up from different rides at KD, and know he is 52', 7years old wanted to ride everything possible. Another example would be that when I was put on my first coaster (Volcano), I was panicking and would not want to ride anything for months.

 

Here is what I come up with the two storys.

1- If you have rides that are for the 42' height group, your going to let kids start being more comfortable with rides.

2- If you have big tall rides, and they ride them once because of lack of rides, their going to end up either riding with their parents (by force), or they will be waiting with some one and being bored walking around the park.

 

Thats just a few thoughts I had on this.

 

-Matthew "surprised to get KD stuff into a SFMM thread" K.

[the ghost]

^ Or, you can go the California Adventure way and scare the hell out of little kids on coasters.

This happened in line for Screamin last time I was there

Little Girl: I bet this is not as scary as space mountain

Mom" We'll see

(train launches)

Girl: Begins to scream in terror

(Airtime Hill)

THe Mom: We're going to die!

 

Same applies to Tower of Terror. There was actually a point to that entire story, and here it is. Magic Mountain, while smart to be getting a "family ride" would not be smart to build a kiddie coaster without a kiddie land. It has a reputation for having tons of coasters, and if you looks at it from the outside all you see is twisted B&M tracks, Goliath, X, and viper. If I was little I would see the outside and just say no way. Terminator is a great move for the park, because 50mph is a speed that will not terrify kids, but will not totally bore thrill seekers.

[Manic Monte]

^ Oh I'm sure it will bore some of them.

 

But I agree with you. Last year I noticed kids of all ages riding Kentucky Rumbler, even without their parents. GCIs are not very intense at all, and although really small kids can't ride it, from about 9+ should have no problem with Termy. That's a VERY large group they are covering with this coaster.

[linearinduction]

If Robb, Elissa, and KT visit Utah and re-visit Lagoon (I'm sure you will be there mainly for Cowabunga Bay), you will see most of the Zierer Family Ride Catalog.

 

In 2004 the Park Purchased the Zierer Kontiki and Eli Bridge Spider right off the IAAPA Floor, Twin Zierer Family Drop Towers in 2006, a Zierer Flying Fish in 2008, and a Zierer Dragon Roundabout for 2009. These are all rides that Families can Enjoy Together. Some of the Best Memories I have at Lagoon and many other Amusement Parks are of riding those rides with my family....the entire family, from 5-65.

 

- Sid