Nagashima Spa Land Discussion Thread

[boldikus]

^ To be honest, I don't feel that it's completely unwarrented, there was a lot of potential for what could have been done to White Cyclone and it feels a little squandered.

Such as?

My problem with Hakugei is just that most of the elements seem so stretched out (The double down after the outward banked wave turn and the overbank being the main examples) compared to the more relentless look of the top RMC's. One of the ones I like to point to for what White Cyclone could have looked like at it's full potential is by CoasterMac305 on YT.

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As I said, as much as it could have been better and I expect Hakugei will end up being an upper-mid tier RMC, It will still be one of the better rides out there.

 

Hakugei is probably going to end up being my first RMC, so all this lowering of expectations on my part could lead it to absolutely blowing me away.

So just to get this straight - you haven't ridden a single RMC but you've already decided which ones are better than others?

[AmyUD06]

Their name is "projektion", it only makes sense that's what they do. LOL.

[A.J.]

As I said, as much as it could have been better and I expect Hakugei will end up being an upper-mid tier RMC, It will still be one of the better rides out there.

Not every roller coaster has to make its riders feel like they're being shot out of a cannon every time they go over a hill. Actually, that description you gave about it being more drawn-out makes me think I would like it better than other Rocky Mountain coasters.

 

And like Elissa said, you can't just have a blanket design style for every country or region. For some people, a Steel Vengeance might be too intense or aggressive. The teams at Rocky Mountain Construction and Ride Centerline likely know this, and I'll bet that they've done the necessary research and prep work to make sure Hakugei will be just right for Nagashima. That's the luxury you get when you order a custom design, as opposed to a clone.

[robbalvey]

My problem with Hakugei is just that most of the elements seem so stretched out (The double down after the outward banked wave turn and the overbank being the main examples) compared to the more relentless look of the top RMC's. One of the ones I like to point to for what White Cyclone could have looked like at it's full potential is by CoasterMac305 on YT.

I'm so fucking sick of "back seat roller coaster designers" and their idiotic comments. Seriously, there is literally NO REASON for anyone to make comments like this about a roller coaster they have never ridden. Just please STFU and spare the rest of us your idiocracy.

 

Thanks.

Edited March 4, 2019 by robbalvey

[OmnipotentSeal]

Hakugei looks absolutely amazing. I can’t wait to someday ride it! Hopefully they start testing soon.

[Kw6sTheatee]

About Hakugei’s intensity... according to Coaster Studios’ interview of Alan Schilke, the folks at Nagashima Spa Land were shocked by how intense his original layout proposal was. He had to tweak it a bit to be less intense, which in my opinion isn’t a bad thing at all!

[cfc]

And like Elissa said, you can't just have a blanket design style for every country or region. For some people, a Steel Vengeance might be too intense or aggressive. The teams at Rocky Mountain Construction and Ride Centerline likely know this, and I'll bet that they've done the necessary research and prep work to make sure Hakugei will be just right for Nagashima. That's the luxury you get when you order a custom design, as opposed to a clone.

 

As much as I love Steel Vengeance, it does border on being "too much," which is why I slightly prefer Twisted Timbers. I think Nagashima is getting the coaster they want and need, and I look forward to riding it myself someday.

[robbalvey]

I don't think people quite understand that the average theme park visitor in Japan isn't going to want a ride that is as intense as we have them here in the US or even in Europe. And that's not a bad thing, just a different culture.

 

And hey, anyone who has an issue with that I'm more than happy with them NOT GOING TO JAPAN as to not have yet another obnoxious Westerner visit the park and complain about stuff they don't understand making the Japanese think we are all like that.

 

tl;dr - If you have a problem with this coaster, please just don't go. I beg of you. If you are going to complain, just please don't go to Japan and ruin it for the rest of us.

 

Thanks.

[MayTheGForceBeWithYou]

^If a slightly toned down RMC is enough to ruin your trip to Nagashima (or Japan at large), you're there for all the wrong reasons.

[RAWKIN_coaster38]

As I said, as much as it could have been better and I expect Hakugei will end up being an upper-mid tier RMC, It will still be one of the better rides out there.

Not every roller coaster has to make its riders feel like they're being shot out of a cannon every time they go over a hill. Actually, that description you gave about it being more drawn-out makes me think I would like it better than other Rocky Mountain coasters.

 

And like Elissa said, you can't just have a blanket design style for every country or region. For some people, a Steel Vengeance might be too intense or aggressive. The teams at Rocky Mountain Construction and Ride Centerline likely know this, and I'll bet that they've done the necessary research and prep work to make sure Hakugei will be just right for Nagashima. That's the luxury you get when you order a custom design, as opposed to a clone.

Whaaat you mean designers do their research about their target audience before they spend millions designing and building a new ride?

 

I actually didn't know that about Japan (them not being into super aggressive rides) but I learned something new today.

 

Idc if people think they could have built a "better" ride, this still looks stunning and I would love to get the chance to ride it someday. I've never ridden an RMC I didn't like, and most people have the same mentality about RMCs, so I'm sure this will end up pleasing the enthusiasts and GP after all. Can't wait to see TPR videos whenever you guys end up making it out there.

[mark549]

About Hakugei’s intensity... according to Coaster Studios’ interview of Alan Schilke, the folks at Nagashima Spa Land were shocked by how intense his original layout proposal was. He had to tweak it a bit to be less intense, which in my opinion isn’t a bad thing at all!

 

 

I listened to that interview and I heard him say that after Nagashima's management watched the animation a few times the layout made more sense to them. I didn't hear him say he toned it down at all, merely minor tweaks between the proposal and the final design (as is normal for Schilke creations).

 

A couple elements look like they are beyond awesome, especially the remnant of the second helix (between the first and second inversions). I've been on six RMCs including SV and this looks as good as any of them.

 

My only complaint about the coaster is it is far away ... perhaps an opportunity for a long trip.

[pǝʇɹǝʌuı]

I think the Japanese people are absolutely gonna love this ride. They lose their minds about rides in the US, and honestly this'll be just about as intense as most of them. I was with my cousin at SFMM this past summer and we found ourselves right behind two Japanese girls in line for TC. We both speak the language so we talked to them a bit and ended up sitting right in front of them on the ride. They LOVED IT! They didn't want it to be over, they kept saying they wanted it to go on a little longer. If they make it to Nagashima they won't be disappointed by this thing at all. RMC makes quality coasters and, especially compared to White Cyclone, this thing will definitely deliver. The longer elements will add to the presentation of quality and I'm sure Japanese news stations and youtube channels will be all over this once word gets out that it's a fun ride.

[Condor]

To me, this ride looks like the midpoint between Steel Vengeance and New Texas Giant. That's honestly the sweet spot I think a lot of RMCs should (and do) hit. And even if it ends up being more like "NTAG with inversions," that's still good enough to be at minimum a top 20-30 coaster for 90% of the people on this forum, including myself. I look forward to riding it on my first Japan trip this fall.

[805Andrew]

The length of that drop looks sick! I visited Nagashima in 2015 and White Cyclone was a lengthy ride but just okay in my opinion which makes it a perfect conversion for an RMC. I plan to go back to Japan next year and with all the additions Nagashima has had since them I'm definitely going to include them in my itinerary.

[A.J.]

Whaaat you mean designers do their research about their target audience before they spend millions designing and building a new ride?

I can confirm from experience that designing is not easy.

[Kw6sTheatee]

Whaaat you mean designers do their research about their target audience before they spend millions designing and building a new ride?

I can confirm from experience that designing is not easy.

 

If you don’t mind, what ride(s) have you designed? I’m glad we have some industry professionals on this Forums.

[A.J.]

I can't really say, for obvious reasons. What I can tell you that the work that I've done (so far) has mainly been for hotels, resorts, and retail / dining / entertainment complexes. I have done some work for an upcoming theme park or two as well.

 

But I was talking less about the ride itself and more about the challenge of designing for a different country and / or culture. People have different expectations, different needs and wants. What's classified as an "intense" coaster is different in Japan vs the United States. What's classified as a "luxury" resort might be different in Germany vs The Bahamas. An "upscale" retail store might even look completely different based on the shopping mall it sits in! It's a challenge that I think pretty much every ride vendor or design firm faces.

[Kw6sTheatee]

And I thought only theming had to do with different countries and cultures... then again I have no experience in professional design.

[Samuel]

This is my first comment on the ride -- I think it looks gorgeous and spectacular. I love that it has a few great-looking traditional airtime moments to balance the sideways misdirections and inversions. I could gaze at the blue-and-white color scheme all day (it looks good on Twisted Cyclone, too). And what a structure, even after the big helices were removed.

 

I see nothing to be skeptical about. Skyrush and Maverick are proof that you shouldn't, err, rush to judgement on new coasters during construction (but I would bet on this being fantastic!).

 

Aside from my anticipation for the coaster itself, my tolerance for internet coaster conjecture is zapped. Too many kids and shut-ins. Bedroom hot takes on YouTube and fantasy No Limits 2 uploads with three-mile-long giga coasters distort expectations. Checking out Hakugei on social media, I see a lot of, "Not Steel Vengeance, so it's a letdown," and then, "Why didn't they just build that one No Limits coaster I saw that one time and it was much better? By the way, I knew everything before my thirteenth birthday."

 

Sometimes you gotta run screaming from the conversations and just enjoy the rides.

[Jew]

Even if Hakugei ends up being a mid tier RMC that will still make it one of the best coasters in Japan.

 

It's just such a different culture and I worry giving them a ride like Steel Vengeance wouldn't have paid off. I'm sure this ride will be great for Japan.

 

Not just Japan, but still likely top 25-30 for the world!

[Kw6sTheatee]

I wasn’t really disappointed with the layout. Most people are used to RMC’s having super tight turn and hil radius which produces that insane ejector airtime they are notorious for, but I think some floater air would be nice for a change.

[Nrthwnd]

I miss all those massive helixes.

 

 

 

 

Not really. This is looking great.

Edited March 6, 2019 by Nrthwnd

[Nrthwnd]

Accidental DoubleDouble Post.

 

 

Shocking, I know, but it's true!

 

I still can't get over those lost helixes.

[805Andrew]

^If you miss all those massive helixes you can always go to Kings Island and ride The Beast.

[CarolinaJay]

I'm incredibly bummed that this coaster is ALL THE WAY IN FREAKING JAPAN!!

 

That just means more traveling I get to do....whenever I get to do it because working/grad school is kicking my entire ass right now That coaster is not only beautiful (I'm loving the white/blue contrast), but it looks damn fun!!