S&S Sansei Discussion Thread

[Guy T. Koepp]

I agree with Joey. (Probably the last time you will ever hear anybody say that. ) on the scaling back and parts sales. I do however think that they will continue to build their staples. Tower rides and the now popular Screaming Swing. That way they can hire freelance project managers on a need by need basis without having the huge staffing overhead between projects. I can only hope that they don't entirely phase out their other ride projects entirely.

 

I love the catupult at 6FNE.

[rabid disney]

This news makes alot of sense to me.

 

Looks like Batwing opening in November at work will be the last S&S ride made.

 

Anyway a couple of months back I was asked by one of the top dogs at work (Warner Village Theme Parks) who will go unname, anyway he told me he had heard S&S were in trouble and if I knew anything about the situation, I didnt at the time, but after seeing this topic it now makes alot more sense to me.

 

Ian:)

[GURZU]

S&S in bankruptcy?!?!?! OMG, but since is it it?!?!

Let's expect not to remain ado 4th For Dimension

[rollermonkey]

When I was at Fuji-Q, Mike Smith mentioned that they didn't have any orders and I think he meant rides AND coasters. They were making new trains for X, but not much else was going on. That's not a good thing for a company this size.

 

EJ's 35 million dollar price tag will be paid out to S&S over three years.

 

In the Russian Screaming Squirrel thread I mentioned that park was unhappy with the ride. Holding out on the payment of it could be a contributing factor. Also, development costs for the Squirrels is hard to recoup if they can't sell them and get paid!

[rollermonkey]

Dondopa and Hypersonic XLC are now incredibly rough, not to mention those rides were very costly.

 

Er, Dodonpa is rough? I rode it about three weeks ago. It was exactly the same as when I rode it three years ago. Fun, fast and smooth.

Some people don't like it, but I don't think it's because of roughness.

[raptorcrew2002]

Sounds very realistic. I always thought the whole merging/buyout of arrow dynamics was a bad idea from the start.

 

S&S should of gone in their own direction and just built their own fab shop, and hell they could of bought all the equipment and rights that would of been liquidated from arrow.

 

In biz you never take a company with a bad image and run with it. They should of bought the company, BUT kept it under wraps and NEVER referenced Arrow in the first place.

 

I think what hurt them on the coaster side was the idea of selling parks they where not arrow dynamics. And to be honest, where are the innovative rides? 4D doesn't count, it still hasn't shown to be reliable. It's one thing to make something look good, but if you can't market it?

 

Also S&S hasn't been without it's own issues "cough" VertiGo "cough" Not sure how all that settled out.

 

Either way sad if this is true, but I think the company has not been running in the right direction for sometime now, and seemed to have lost that spark they brought them in the game.

 

Cheers!

[Homey G.]

Huss was a much bigger loss, IMO. Multiple quality flats are lacking at almost every major park other than PCW, and Huss was easily the leader in thrilling attractions outside of the Intamin drop towers.

 

S&S's coaster efforts were iffy. Powderkeg was fun, but not amazing. I've heard wonderful things about Avalanche and J2 is one of the most aggressive wooden coasters I've even been on. The other coasters like the new 4D and Hypersonic opened to rave reviews, but I wonder how Eej will hold up. IMO, Hypersonic has not held up that well at all. Their flat ride selections is rather broad, but most of their offerings are done better by other companies excluding the shot towers. What is exclusive to S&S like the Sky Swatters and the Screamin Swings are plagued with downtime.

 

I wish the folks at S&S the best, and hope any amusement company doesn't go under, but IMO, the saddest part of this is how their wooden coasters seemed to have just turned the corner and the rug was pulled out from under them.

[CoasterFanatic]

Surprised nobody has mentioned this till now, but I am willing to bet that one of their most profitable products is .....

 

Frog Hopper!

 

There has to be well over 200 of those things in the US alone. Nearly every single park has one and some even have two. But it doesn't stop there ... most FECs that have rides of any sort also have them.

 

If you have ever seen pictures of S&S's warehouse, you will find that they have "Hopper" parts laying around everywhere.

 

I want the rights to manufacture these things as the look to be the ultimate cash cow.

[Homey G.]

You're right, Ted. Those are great rides for kids. Moser makes a ride like that, as seen here that adults can ride too. Honestly, as small as it was (Seabreeze, in Rochester) it was much more fun than any S&S tower I've ridden!

 

http://www.flatrides.com/Ride%20Index%20Pages/springride.html

[stormrider]

I saw one of those at the CA state fair yesterday, but never went on it. They also had an 80 version or so, but that was eight tickets and my mom didn't buy me two more when I needed them

 

On the S&S thing, I am wondering if they may have spent too much on research when the end product didn't sell as many as they liked? Such as the sky swatter and Vertigo tower. I remember wanting to be a roller coaster designer/maker, but I'm sure when I learn more about how business works . . . doesn't appeal to me as much as it did before.

[okinawaboy11]

I say they start selling those old Arrow counterparts and rack in some more dough. Realativly cheap hypers (Cheaper than B&M atleast), parks that still need one.

 

IOA (Unlikely due to land)

Knotts (Xcelerator, but still)

SFEG

Enchanted Village

Dollywood (Would be amazing in that terrain)

Ghost Town in the Sky

SFKK

SFNO (Unlikely due to Katrina)

SFStL

Wisconsin Dells Parks. (Mt. O would be perfect with one)

Silver Dollar City

Silverwood

Lagoon

SFMW (Somethong more along the lines of Steel Eel due to Height restrictions)

 

The list goes on...

[Jon Sabo]

While this news is rather unfortunate, we should reflect on what the industry is going through the past few years. Also, it just seems like another business cycle for the industry. For example, Arrow, Vekoma, Morgan, Chance, Setpoint, Giovanola, Intermountain Lift, and several mfg. had company and money issues and either teamed up with other vendors or split up into a seperate company (similar to Vekoma's scenario when Jac Houben left and how issues with in-house mfg. took a dive).

 

I actually think this may be a "good" move if the announcement comes to fruition. For some odd reason, the company may split up into seperate entities and become a stronger group. Look how Morgan/Chance Mfg. combined resources and so on. From S&S standpoint, they should sell off the parts sales division and have another company run that as a seperate entity and S&S file chpt `11 or 13 and reorganize as a smaller unit and become more focused again.

 

I agree with several of the earlier posts in that the company really took on a major debt-load when it acquired Arrow and the issues with the 4D coaster associated with those terms. This may in fact be a result from the Arrow "4D curse", because it is S&S that took over that massive cost-overload and debt. Also, I too think the company grew too fast and wasn't able to get returns on the investment and perhaps some of the quality control (manufacturing, parts supplies, service/sales) have greatly dropped and they did not recognize it in time.

This may be a silver-lining and a good thing that happens to the company. Time will tell when an announcement is made, but this may only be a temporary setback for the industry. Not sure how the stream of information will allow for updates since Amusement-Business is no longer in service, but perhaps the orginal poster of this forum will keep us updated since he is closest source to the situation.

[Gnome]

I seriously doubt this. They just made a fortune over Eejanika or whatever.

the million dollar price tag does not all go to the company. Its just like any line of work of that nature. They work on multi-million dollar projects, but the company only recieves a small percentage of that money. The rest goes into materials and buildings. I don't know why people automatically assume that roller coaster designers have all the money in the world, because they don't.

 

I really think ride manufacturers should also off other areas of work. That would definately help them with keeping the company around.

[CP_RULES]

It is really sad to see another company having troubles. IMO, S&S is one of the better companies out there. I hope they can make it through, hell, look at Delta Airlines! They've applied for bankruptcy tons of times and now they are one of the most successful in the business. Hopefuly S&S can do the same.

[raptorcrew2002]

It is really sad to see another company having troubles. IMO, S&S is one of the better companies out there. I hope they can make it through, hell, look at Delta Airlines! They've applied for bankruptcy tons of times and now they are one of the most successful in the business. Hopefuly S&S can do the same.

 

Delta is still in bankruptcy, selling assets and gates, delisted from the exchange and trading otc. But hey at .71 with 52 wk high @ 1.50 and low @ .30 cents, good cheap stock to buy for a gamble.

 

I see a future for S&S just not until a major shake up or change in direction and scope. I just think it's too late for them to create a distance from the Arrow name and operation. They just need to go back to what they do good at.

 

Oh and as for the frog hopper, that thing rocks!

 

 

Cheers!

[Cressie2]

what a shame that s+s arnt doing well.I love space shots and I think they are very entertaining but i guess there wont be no more because if s+s get sold off there will be diffrent ideas.

[stormrider]

From what I remember, there were Chinese/Japanese investors who wanted Arrow Dynamics, so I'm thinking maybe there is another (hopefully rich) investor who would want to buy S&S. I don't know what's with this, is it that they don't advertise their rides as well as the others? Why can't their roller coaster department take off? I thought a park in America would love to support another American company . . . but I haven't rode an S&S coaster so I don't know whether there is reason for a park to prefer European RCs without considering S&S.

[Voovegas]

I hope that this isn't true. I used to deliver parts to S&S several years ago and Stan is one of the nicest guys I have ever met. He also seemed to be the innovator behind S&S. I think that without him at the helm it may not matter if they stay in business because he was the creative force (atleast back then, about 10 years ago).

 

They are also building a small park in Logan right now, as a showcase of their rides I think, and I would hate to see that go also.

[stormrider]

I'm sure Stan could still be a "creative consultant". I think it depends on if he is as good of a manager as well as a creative man, which is why he could stay in the company. What about his wife anyways? The other S in S&S could have had an important role in the company as well.

[pdon]

 

They are also building a small park in Logan right now, as a showcase of their rides I think, and I would hate to see that go also.

 

Celebration City, at least I think that is what Stan named it, is not owned by S&S. Stan payed for it himself and used private investors. Not sure if the investors in S&S wil go after it or not, but as of now it only has a putt-putt course, and restaraunt/arcade, a three tower sling shot ride and that crazy vertical tube that blows out your ear drums.

 

No Screaming Squirrel, Extreme Swing, Drop Tower or any other rides. My guess is that if S&S goes away, so will the park as there really isn't all that much there yet anyway. I had hopes at one time for an S&S test park to try out their newest crazy ideas, but that never came to fruition.

[verticalzero]

I thought S&S were doing well with their rides, if it is true they have to go under, it's a shame as "Stan" is a master of creating new rides. "Skyswat" and " Screaming Swing", etc.

 

What will happen to the "Arrow" part of the company as S&S bought out Arrow..?

[stormrider]

What would happen if overbaked an apple pie and it burnt to a crisp, would the apple go away? Well, I'm just guessing, but Arrow is S&S and S&S has itself, no more Arrow, since they are in S&S. That's the problem, someone already mentioned that Arrow kept getting lumped with S&S. S&S had named their products S&S-Arrow for the only rollercoaster they mention on their website: 4-D.

S&S Website

 

But on the Thrust Air, they say S&S withouth Arrow.

[Thrillrider15]

*Sigh*. This is sad. S&S is a great company, and one of my favorite too. It's sad to see this happen. Hopefully, it will somehow get fixed.

 

My avatar is also sad.

[willski]

It is really sad to see another company having troubles. IMO, S&S is one of the better companies out there. I hope they can make it through, hell, look at Delta Airlines! They've applied for bankruptcy tons of times and now they are one of the most successful in the business. Hopefuly S&S can do the same.

 

Delta is still in bankruptcy, selling assets and gates, delisted from the exchange and trading otc. But hey at .71 with 52 wk high @ 1.50 and low @ .30 cents, good cheap stock to buy for a gamble.

 

I see a future for S&S just not until a major shake up or change in direction and scope. I just think it's too late for them to create a distance from the Arrow name and operation. They just need to go back to what they do good at.

 

Oh and as for the frog hopper, that thing rocks!

 

 

Cheers!

 

 

Delta isn't selling any assets or gates. In fact, they've announced new routes out of LAX, JFK, and ATL. They've also committed to purchasing 5 new 777, of which at least 2 will be Worldliners (the longest-ranged commercial aircraft in the world). Actually, if you take away the bankruptcy reorganization charges, they made a $355 million profit in Q2. Once they come out of Ch. 11, they will be stronger than any carrier in the U.S. except maybe Continental.

 

 

Back on topic, hopefully this is just Ch. 11 and they can reorganize and continue operations (a la Vekoma). If this is Ch. 7, then we'll lose all of S&S's creations, in addition to wooden coasters like Avalanche and J2. Obviously Arrow's stuff would go too, but who wants the accursed 4-d coaster now?

 

Also, is Huss going to be a Ch. 11 or 7 bankruptcy? I hope it's just Ch. 11.

[Jhcbiinoc]

Obviously Arrow's stuff would go too, but who wants the accursed 4-d coaster now?

 

I think it would be great if they sold the patent to B&M and see what they could do with it.....