The Knott's Berry Farm (KBF) Discussion Thread

[DJeXeL]

Just talked to the park and the event is still happening.

[TopThrill182]

For a Cedar Fair / Triotech effort, this looks to be about what I was expecting. I agree with the "It feels like a giant video game" comments, which make sense given how most of Triotech's experience has been in single-screen interactive cinema rather than large-scale amusement park rides. (I still don't quite understand why CF has chosen Triotech to be their stalwart partner in the former's dark ride push, but that debate is for another day.)

 

The decision to leave the projectors completely exposed seems an odd oversight / laziness, and perhaps most disappointing are the reports of the story being underdeveloped. (The announcement gave me hope that this ride would feature a really clear and compelling story.) That being said, the addition of physical sets to link the various screens provides continuity and makes this installment seem much better than Wonder Mountain's Guardian, IMO.

 

At the end of the day, it's great to see a vacant building put to use for an attraction that is completely different from anything else Knott's currently offers. Even if we were all to agree for a moment with those who suggest this ride is largely average, was anyone really expecting anything that much better?

[DJeXeL]

I'm focusing on what Voyage is and not what it isn't. Could it have been better? Yes. Could it have been a lot worse? Yep.

It's exactly what Knott's needed and is an improvement over WMG @ CW. Triotech was chosen for cost. Choosing Sally Corp doesn't necessarily mean a "better" product would've came to fruition if the park didn't want to pay for it.

[loop-de-loop]

The physical sets are a big plus, makes the ride seem less like a video game. It's one thing I wish they did with WMG.

Though to be honest, the drop track is the main reason I ride WMG, so at least they got that right.

[marth555]

does iron reef have a fastlane line?

[DJeXeL]

Yes

[Jew]

I'm focusing on what Voyage is and not what it isn't. Could it have been better? Yes. Could it have been a lot worse? Yep.

It's exactly what Knott's needed and is an improvement over WMG @ CW. Triotech was chosen for cost. Choosing Sally Corp doesn't necessarily mean a "better" product would've came to fruition if the park didn't want to pay for it.

 

You could make an argument that now is not the time to be cheap in the ultra competitve So Cal theme park market. USH has Potter coming online+Comcast has already said they intend to have one new addition per year to both coasts (with Season Passes still being relatively cheap), Disney has the 60th Celebration+whatever rumored announcements come at D23 (and their giant AP base), SFMM has its dirt cheap passes and Twisted Colossus...

 

To be fair, the Triotech rides seem like a much better fit for the other Cedar Fair parks that have no history with dark rides. KBF just did fantastic overlays of the Mine and Log rides, plus their history with Bear-y Tales and KoD so this seems really out of place.

Edited May 15, 2015 by Jew

[DJeXeL]

I get what you're saying and don't disagree with you but Knott's got what they paid for. They aren't USH or Disney and they know it. That's my bottom line.

[ioio]

Just got back from Knott's, first time there in 10 years:

 

• Xcelerator is GREAT! Got to go on that in the front and back, loved it! Log ride upgrade is a lot better than what I remember. Montezuma is Montezuma. And Silver Bullet is my new favorite California inverted!

 

• Voyage to the Iron Reef = the 3D was less "immersive" than I thought, and you could totally see the projectors (it would be so easy to hide them!). Some trains did not slide open to let the passengers in (it happened twice out of the 3 times I went on it)! AND my gun, though it was registering my score and vibrated, did not show it's indicator on the screen on one of my rides! (apparently that train was not the only one with a gun firing blanks). Hopefully these bugs are worked out for tomorrow's public opening. With that said, the physical sets inside were nice, and the mid-ride transition was nice to give you time to rest. Oh, and the scoreboard located down the stairs after you ride were completely incorrect (wrong scores matched to the wrong faces). Lots of little things they need to work out, but overall a good addition to the park.

[DoinItForTheFame]

I swear if I see:

you can see the projectors

ONE MORE TIME.

Seriously. . . So you can see the projectors . . . Is it the end of the world? No. Is it still a great ride? Yes.

 

People need to find better... more "important" things to complain about aside from projectors.

[Jew]

Guess what? You can see the projectors. It's bad show. But if you want more important things to complain about there is the terrible capacity, technical issues (hopefully those will improve), the sub-par storytelling, the finale of shooting jellyfish after defeating a monster who can talk without moving her lips...

 

Personally, I think if one of the selling points of the ride is that everyone is happy there is something in the empty space again...well...I guess that's a win? To me, it's a very disappointing follow up to two great ride overhauls. It really feels like something that belongs at any other Cedar Fair park but KBF.

Edited May 15, 2015 by Jew

[Gnome]

Guess what? You can see the projectors. It's bad show. But if you want more important things to complain about there is the terrible capacity, technical issues (hopefully those will improve), the sub-par storytelling, the finale of shooting jellyfish after defeating a monster who can talk without moving her lips...

 

Personally, I think if one of the selling points of the ride is that everyone is happy there is something in the empty space again...well...I guess that's a win? To me, it's a very disappointing follow up to two great ride overhauls. It really feels like something that belongs at any other Cedar Fair park but KBF.

 

Fortunately, a lot of these issues can be tweaked. Kbf can eventually mold some rock formation to hide the projectors. They can redo scenes or add a voice over in the beginning to help set the story. Honestly, I thought that holding room in the beginning would have been WAAAAY cool if they had an animatronic of the old man talking to you.

 

In general, though, I think we can expect the technical issues to eventually get worked out. the other 2 issues highlighted are fixable without the need for Knotts to spend too much as the main bulk of the infrastructure is already there, but who knows if it will ever actually be addressed.

 

The biggest issue from what I've been reading that can't really be fixed is capacity. This seems like an attraction families would consider reriding multiple times though maybe not if the wait is always at least an hour long. And that is rather unfortunate. All things considered, I still wouldn't buy a knotts pass to reride this a billion times but I'll probably make sure I ride it at least once, along with mine ride and log ride, with every visit I make to knotts and spend the rest of the time between Xcelerator, Silverbullet, and GR.

 

Lastly, are the cars motion simulated? I thought they were but I haven't really heard anything about it

[Wingwright]

For a Cedar Fair / Triotech effort, this looks to be about what I was expecting. I agree with the "It feels like a giant video game" comments, which make sense given how most of Triotech's experience has been in single-screen interactive cinema rather than large-scale amusement park rides. (I still don't quite understand why CF has chosen Triotech to be their stalwart partner in the former's dark ride push, but that debate is for another day.)

 

During the Q&A with Ernest Yale (Triotech CEO), he referred to the ride multiple times as "the game". He made it pretty clear that Triotech is a videogame company.

 

My favorite part of the Q&A was when Ernest talked about the differences between destination and regional parks. "People will fly from all over to come to California and Knott's. Nobody is going to fly to Canada's Wonderland just to ride a dark ride." Followed by silence and then laughter since the room was full of coaster geeks.

[PeoplemoverMatt]

Guess what? You can see the projectors. It's bad show. But if you want more important things to complain about there is the terrible capacity, technical issues (hopefully those will improve), the sub-par storytelling, the finale of shooting jellyfish after defeating a monster who can talk without moving her lips...

 

Personally, I think if one of the selling points of the ride is that everyone is happy there is something in the empty space again...well...I guess that's a win? To me, it's a very disappointing follow up to two great ride overhauls. It really feels like something that belongs at any other Cedar Fair park but KBF.

 

Not to get lost in the weeds but at that point both the riders and the queen are underwater. Not sure if you've ever tried to talk underwater but that doesn't work too well.

 

 

Having had a chance to ride this multiple times, I will agree there are some issues story-wise, but to go back to my earlier post, all rides have issues story-wise to an extent. The whole freezing fish underwater thing was demonstrated at the Q&A as a way to avoid having an actual gun shooting actual bullets. They were very careful not to call your weapon a gun, but a blaster instead. They don't shoot bullets. They shoot freeze rays. Does it make complete sense? No, neither does a giant metal crab eating somebody's wooden boat, but who really cares?

 

To me, the projector issue is a non-issue. When I was focused on playing the game, as Ernest would put it, I didn't see any projectors. But if I turned my head a little bit, there they were. So what? Later that night I got a ride on Space Mountain, and OMFG I saw projectors!! Big deal. It's really nothing to harp on and keep harping on over & over again. Triotech is not Garner Holt. They're not trying to be. I don't think hardly any GP are going to notice or care since they're going to be too busy shooting everything in sight. It's not like the projectors are right there in the line of sight. If you go looking for them, you'll find them, but same could be said about numerous other rides at Universal or Disney. To those who think this is some big problem, I would say get over it.

 

That said, the ride does have an alarmingly low capacity. The presentation said 800 people per hour, but quite frankly that's a fantasy. 8 people per train in 2 cars with 8 trains is the ideal condition that won't happen all the time. When it does, it's going to take a long time to load/unload these cars with that large front apparatus that has to slide forward/backward. There were times when it would stick and the ride op would have noticeable trouble getting it to move. Eventually that's going to take a good bit of time making sure people's feet and knees are clear and then fixing whatever is keeping the front panel from moving. Also, this ride DESPERATELY needs a single-rider line. Out of 7-8 times I rode it, almost every time I was whisked through the last part of the queue because my friend got stuck having to work and I was there riding solo, (Yep, that was me) and I could take a seat next to a group of 3. With the capacity problems this ride is going to have, I really hope Knott's works in a single rider line here especially for summer.

 

 

Voyage to the Iron Reef isn't the best ride I've ever been on, but it's not the worst either. From the presentation, it was clear that Knott's wanted something innovative and interactive, not just a glide-through dark ride. Triotech wanted to try some new things and was eager to build a full dark ride. Both sides seem to have what they wanted with this. Guests will get what they want with a fun shooter dark ride that kids will eat up and want to ride again & again. There's some intrigue. There's some fun. There's some fright with the queen at the end. For Knott's this is a pretty solid ride that fits in nicely with their lineup. That's ultimately what matters isn't it? So I'm going to look forward to visiting Knott's throughout the year and having fun riding this with my gu- errrm, blasters blazing.

 

 

My favorite part of the Q&A...

 

Guest: "Why did my score go down from what the display showed in the car to what it showed underneath my picture in the exit?"

 

Jeff Tucker: "Taxes."

 

[CedarFlags]

The projectors are a complete non-issue for me as well. I saw a projector and I was like "hey, there's a projector", then the vehicle turned and I was like "hey there's a screen" and thought literally nothing more about it. There's so much more to look at.

 

I definitely agree with PeoplemoverMatt about the capacity though, it is going to be a big source of guest complaints when the crowds start showing up in a couple weeks. The load/unload time needs to get cut by 30-50% if they want to break even 500 riders per hour.

 

And Gnome - Yes, the cars do have some motion simulation, it's just slight.

[VegasBaby]

The projectors are a complete non-issue for me as well. I saw a projector and I was like "hey, there's a projector", then the vehicle turned and I was like "hey there's a screen" and thought literally nothing more about it. There's so much more to look at.

 

I definitely agree with PeoplemoverMatt about the capacity though, it is going to be a big source of guest complaints when the crowds start showing up in a couple weeks. The load/unload time needs to get cut by 30-50% if they want to break even 500 riders per hour.

 

And Gnome - Yes, the cars do have some motion simulation, it's just slight.

 

I agree that the projectors should be a non-issue. I've read about 10 articles/reviews about the Iron Reef opening and not one of them mentioned seeing the projectors. I think the GP will be so immersed in the screens that they won't pay any attention to them. As for the capacity concerns, most dark rides have capacity issues. Every time I go to DCA, Midway Mania has a 60-90 wait time, but it's a fun ride and people are willing to wait for it. All of the reviews I've read have had nothing but praise for Iron Reef, so it sounds like Knott's has a real hit on their hands. I think we can expect similar rides to start showing up at other CF parks in the near future.

[Jew]

Not to get lost in the weeds but at that point both the riders and the queen are underwater. Not sure if you've ever tried to talk underwater but that doesn't work too well.

 

Yet somehow it comes out amazingly audible from the speakers in your car..maybe telepathy is one of her powers?

 

To me, the projector issue is a non-issue. When I was focused on playing the game, as Ernest would put it, I didn't see any projectors. But if I turned my head a little bit, there they were. So what? Later that night I got a ride on Space Mountain, and OMFG I saw projectors!! Big deal. It's really nothing to harp on and keep harping on over & over again. Triotech is not Garner Holt. They're not trying to be. I don't think hardly any GP are going to notice or care since they're going to be too busy shooting everything in sight. It's not like the projectors are right there in the line of sight. If you go looking for them, you'll find them, but same could be said about numerous other rides at Universal or Disney. To those who think this is some big problem, I would say get over it.

 

The very first scene of the game after your "dive" the projector is right in front of you. It's hard to miss even if you are "focusing on the game." I get that Triotech is not Garner Holt...the problem is in a park with two fantastic ride overlays done by Garner Holt, it makes Iron Reef stick out like a sore thumb. For the 3rd or 4th time, I will say it again: I am sure many will love the ride because it's a giant video game. But guess what? I'm more critical because I am theme park guy. My ride was with 3 other people who also happen to be in the industry.

 

That's ultimately what matters isn't it? So I'm going to look forward to visiting Knott's throughout the year and having fun riding this with my gu- errrm, blasters blazing.

 

Funny you mention that. My response after riding was "man, I'm glad I didn't have to waste time during my Haunt visit and/or pay to come ride this." Twisted Colossus hooked me into buying a Six Flags gold pass as soon as it was announced. I was on the fence about a KBF pass with the Boysenberry festival & the potential of this ride...not so much anymore. But to each their own.

 

If the ride was a people eater, I could at least agree that it is a "solid" addition to the park since guests wouldn't be waiting so long for it. However, I have a feeling that it's not going to be as big a hit as you all suspect because of the wait times. I don't know if Knott's does surveys, but I imagine there will be a HUGE difference in how people rate the ride based on how long they had to wait. Ones who didn't wait will probably agree with the "it's fun, not amazing, but fun" while others who had to wait will probably like "Midway Mania is way better! My PS4 looks the same! Why did I wait so long for this?"

[TopThrill182]

You could make an argument that now is not the time to be cheap in the ultra competitve So Cal theme park market.

 

And yet, this is the same park that once proposed headlining a 27 year old Intamin Freefall ride from CP while neighboring parks were, again, investing in massive new attractions...

 

Knott's seems to think their best strategy is not getting drawn into the So Cal theme park spending war. I'm not sure I totally agree with that strategy, but I concede that the park can't outspend Disney / Universal.

 

To be fair, the Triotech rides seem like a much better fit for the other Cedar Fair parks that have no history with dark rides. KBF just did fantastic overlays of the Mine and Log rides, plus their history with Bear-y Tales and KoD so this seems really out of place.

 

I completely agree. I think these "elementary" Triotech rides would be much better suited for CF's smaller "B" parks (at least for the time being). At the flagship properties, where CF faces greater competition for guests, I'm not sure these rides are of a high enough quality to be overly competitive yet.

Edited May 15, 2015 by TopThrill182

[Jew]

^The freefall idea came from the corporate offices. Those at KBF fought hard behind the scenes to nix the idea.

 

I'm not asking for Disney/Universal amounts of spending. That's completely unrealistic. But Log Ride/Mine Ride refurb spending would have been nice...

[MagnumFreak25]

Are there any other noticeable projectors besides the first one? They should always be being you so unless you look you shouldn't notice. Anyway, I'll definitely be happy with getting one at CP, kind of looking forward to it. If they fix Capacity it will do fine, there's no dark ride competition up here at all.

[Jew]

^Yes, but the first one is the most blatant.

[brneff99]

Just returned from a quick jaunt to the park to check out the ride for myself and see first hand what is in store for the general public and garner some reactions and thoughts. (Note: I braved Middle School Band and Choir day for this review)

I could easily insert a Robb Alvey rant here...but instead I will thank those who set my expectations so low that I had a wonderful time...for years and years and years we have collectively complained about this empty building and general lack of attention to this area of the park. Now in 2 years, KBF has revamped the entire Boardwalk and added a new dark ride that I dare say the general public, and definitely kids, are going to love. First of all, the building looks great, the queue has been redone very nicely and will feature some great A/C in the hot Summer months during the inside portion. I will say that the Blue Wave-like covering outside is going to reflect some nasty sun and heat in the Summer and it was quite warm even today. Ride Ops today were doing a great job ensuring 4 passengers in each line and going far down the queue to find single passengers (Yes, a Single Rider line would help). I saw no snafus with loading or the vehicles in the time I spent in the area.

The ride itself was just a lot of fun...it was not an Oscar worthy film with fine acting and a great script...it was fun...the screens were 1,000x better than I expected...I thought they did an outstanding job with the entry and dive and set up...do the screens flow from one to another in a smooth transition and progression? No...does it matter...No...Yes, it would have been great to have a drop or some other surprise feature as part of the ride but it certainly doesn't detract from the experience.

The projectors...seriously? I mean really?? You have to knowingly turn your head and look up and away from the very screens you are supposed to be watching to see them...the first ones are the most noticeable if you are looking for them and could be disguised in some fashion going forward but after that you would have to really want to be looking for them to notice. I'm not bashing other reviewers here, but if I compare this ride to many other I have been on, even in Disney parks, there are always features and lighting and effects that are visible. I did not hear one person in the general public coming off the ride mention the projectors.

The ride seemed much longer than I was expecting...the 'Freeze Guns' seemed to be working fine...all the scores in our vehicle matched at the end as did the pictures...kids loved seeing their pictures up on the screen. The screens were very clear and had so many targets and things to take in...

I really enjoyed the experience...I'm not a Video Gamer or Shooting Game expert, I'm just a Theme Park Geek...I would ride this time and again and look forward to ERT during WCB in September.

Is this the biggest opening on the West Coast or in a Theme Park this summer? No...but it will draw people to the park and it certainly is an overall better package to market for Summer than a Hat in a Box trick. I saw merchandise all over the park that people were buying and wearing; especially the Kraken hats...so I think KBF will do just fine with this new ride.

[Jew]

No one is disputing whether or not the ride will be a hit, although I still think wait times will play a huge role in whether or not someone enjoys it. I'm just disappointed with the creative side. Silver Bullet is a hit too, but many of us here also complained how it completely changed the spirit/atmosphere of Ghost Town.

 

It reminds me a lot of how Pony Express ended up in the park. Jack Falfas bought a motocoaster because he liked the concept at IAAPA and told the design team to figure it out. This seems like the same. "Hey guys, we're going to be adding these rides to all of our parks...do your best to make it work!" It's not terrible, but it's a HUGE drop-off in creative energy/quality from what KBF has done recently.

[thrillseeker4552]

^^What brneff99 said.

 

I will ride the ride tomorrow to get the best judgement, but I think Voyage is a great addition. It's not Disney/Universal quality, but seriously, who was expecting it to be? It's definitely better than the previous building that has sat vacant for 10+ years. I'm just glad Knott's finally has a cool, modern dark ride! Even if you can see the projectors...big whoop. Is capacity going to be an issue? Probably. But is Coast Rider or Surfside Gliders really any better?

 

I'm still stoked to ride this tomorrow, because having fun at a theme park is what being an enthusiast is all about, not critiquing every possible aspect of a new ride that still needs some kinks worked out. It literally opened today. It's only mid-May, things will improve. I'm sure Knott's knows about this ride's opening-day flaws.

[X2coasterfreak]

Hopefully this addition is the pre cursor to a larger installment at Knott's, the likes of which hasn't been seen for 11 years. Obviously Voyage will be a hit with the GP, but with the way enthusiasts see right through it (quality wise), it could mean that something big is on the horizon.