The Knott's Berry Farm (KBF) Discussion Thread

[susie zueck]

Knotts will probably get a B&M but do we have an estimate of how tall the giga is going to be?

[Intarider]

^Knowing Cedar Fair, it will most likely be 307 feet tall.

[coasterfreak101]

There was all that talk about a 346-foot Intamin giga...still holding out for that instead of a B&M!

[John Knotts]

Cedar Fair seems to have cut Intamin off at the knees, and who could blame them? While B&M may be more predictable in their forces, I'll take a 300ft coaster by them anyway, and their trains are far superior. I would not want an Intamin with OTSR.

[robbalvey]

Cedar Fair seems to have cut Intamin off at the knees, and who could blame them? While B&M may be more predictable in their forces, I'll take a 300ft coaster by them anyway, and their trains are far superior. I would not want an Intamin with OTSR.

OMG. First off, with the whole "Cedar Fair seems to have cut off Intamin..." bullshit, just shut up right there because you don't have a single clue what you're talking about.

 

As for the B&M versus Intamin debate, you're right. I'd much rather Knott's get a B&M hyper also as it would give me one less reason to visit California.

 

Intamin had 10 of the top 15 steel coasters in the world in last years poll*. Not a single USA B&M made it into the top 15. So yeah, you can have your weak and forceless mediocre B&M hyper all to yourself. Enjoy it.

 

--Robb

 

* http://www.ushsho.com/steelpoll11yeartable2010.htm

Edited November 1, 2011 by robbalvey

[John Knotts]

Nice try.

[MayTheGForceBeWithYou]

I'm still not really taking the whole hyper/giga rumor quite yet...though if it does turn out to be true, I wouldn't really have an opinion on who should build it if the toss-up was between Intamin and B&M; they're both great companies, and either one could build a great coaster for what's being planned.

 

^Robb knows what he's talking about. He's been to parks the world over and has the experience to know what would work for a park like Knott's and what wouldn't. I learned the hard way not to try and argue with Robb over something trivial like this; it's just not worth the effort.

[robbalvey]

Nice try.

Like you know what you're talking about idiot.

[Gigalyte]

Well from this looks of this press release it doesn't look like Knotts will be getting anything for 2012 Cedar Fair spends 90 million in 2012

 

Then again if Knotts was getting something and it was to open late 2012 in December would it be part of the 2013 Capital? and this is why there no mention of it in the 2012 capital plans.

[SoCalCoasters]

Hopefully if Leviathan is an overwheming sucess next year, Cedar Fair might consider installing a Giga for Knott's. Who knows..

 

I just hope it doesn't turn out like Silver Bullet and its destruction of the lake.

[Schotcher]

That moment when you realize "Oh $%#&! Coasters over 300 feet might not be so rare in a couple years!"

[ABW]

^That moment when you realize that most of those 300 foot giga coasters would probably be built by B&M if anything and actually be very mediocore and change the image of giga coasters from being great, unique rides to very midiocore,slightly taller hyper coasters. No really, that's all Leviathan is. A taller version of their hyper coaster. I'm sure it'll please the GP though.

[chadster]

Well from this looks of this press release it doesn't look like Knotts will be getting anything for 2012 Cedar Fair spends 90 million in 2012

 

Then again if Knotts was getting something and it was to open late 2012 in December would it be part of the 2013 Capital? and this is why there no mention of it in the 2012 capital plans.

 

As a former unit holder in CF, I can safely say that if it's not listed in the published 2012 capital plans, it won't happen in 2012. While there is nothing to say that they can't/won't modify the plan, they more or less have to let the investors know ahead of time how much they plan on spending on capital improvements. I haven't ran the math, but the numbers look close to 90.

 

Now lets compare the delay of Windseeker at Knotts due to a variety of factors that included a new survery after the Japan earthquake, and the planned rehab of the saved tower, to the troubles Worlds of Fun had with Thunderhawk and the amount of money they poured into it this year and the end of last year to get it up and running late this year(not sure that they ever really got it back up 100%) and the fact they spent millions on Planet Snoopy and the refurb of the GL Carousel this year. CF made the choice not to infuse any more capital for rides into Worlds of Fun in 2012 due partially to the above and instead opted for infrastructure improvements to get them ready for a capital investment in 2013. While the two situations aren't apples to apples, it's close enough.

 

If I had to place a Vegas wager, I would place my money on the Windseeker dealy factoring in to scrapping any plans they may or may not have had for Knott's for 2012 and instead opted for infrastructure improvements. Those improvements, as hinted to in an above post, might be getting them ready to consolidate and re-arrange things for a new attraction.

 

As far as B&M vs. Intamin for a giga, at this point I would prefer B&M. I realize that some of their new stuff is somewhat tame *cough*Carrowinds*cough* but I like them. For the record, I don't dislike Intamin, in fact El Toro is my #1 wood and there are several Intamins in my top steel's.

 

*Edit, looks like some money is unaccounted for

 

Leviathon - 27 million

Windseeking 13 million

Relocation of Invertigo - ~3 million

Soak City - KI - 10 million

Dinosaurs - 2 million

Soak City - CP - 1 million

Resort Renovations - ? (Can't be more than a few million, I once rehabed a 250 room all suite hotel for less than 3 million)

 

Looks like about 32 million up for grabs here folks. Feel free to point anything I left out (I know someone will anyway )

[Gnome]

Cedar Fair seems to have cut Intamin off at the knees, and who could blame them? While B&M may be more predictable in their forces, I'll take a 300ft coaster by them anyway, and their trains are far superior. I would not want an Intamin with OTSR.

OMG. First off, with the whole "Cedar Fair seems to have cut off Intamin..." bull$#!%, just shut up right there because you don't have a single clue what you're talking about.

 

As for the B&M versus Intamin debate, you're right. I'd much rather Knott's get a B&M hyper also as it would give me one less reason to visit California.

 

Intamin had 10 of the top 15 steel coasters in the world in last years poll*. Not a single USA B&M made it into the top 15. So yeah, you can have your weak and forceless mediocre B&M hyper all to yourself. Enjoy it.

 

--Robb

 

* http://www.ushsho.com/steelpoll11yeartable2010.htm

 

I hope you get a reason to visit California but I doubt it. Knott's never seems to fully invest in their projects to make the most out of their investments. But I'll put it this way, the difference between a B&M hyper and an Intamin could be the difference between me buying a season pass or waiting till November for when I get in free. Not that this really matter because all of their plans are already set in stone.

 

But, I could see why they would go with B&M instead of Intamin as I could forsee backlash that might occur once local media sites start listing the press release for the new attraction.

 

Imagine, "Knott's new 300 foot roller coaster was designed by Intamin who has designed 2 other attractions for knotts. Perioulous Plunge, from which a women fell 115' to her death in 2001, as well as Xcelerator which was shut down for an extended period of time after its launch cable snapped seriously injuring several riders on board."

 

Yup, starting to paint a picture assuming that this project ever does actually get off the ground.

[Thom25]

Excellent points Gnome. You can't argue the fact that Intamin rides deliver a thrilling experience ranking many as the best in the world. However the ongoing costs to the parks (lawsuits, replacement parts, retrofits, bad PR, etc) may very well have set them back with CF. Don't get me wrong, I love Intamin rides, but can easily understand a chain like CF gravitating to B&M, especially with their new wing-rider concept. With that said, given the trim brake at the bottom of Swarm's first drop, makes me think of Mantis - so imho it's anyone's guess.

 

I would definitely travel to Knotts for an Intamin, but think that won't happen, and would place my Vegas bet on a CF three coaster deal with B&M (CW, CP, and Knotts).

[Bolliger&Mabillard]

There are absolutely no airtime coasters on the west coast*, so anything would be welcome. And if Knott's decides to build a B&M, I'd embrace it with open arms. And if there is any truth to Magic Mountain's rumour of an Intamin giga, we'd be looking at going from nothing, to two (I'm sure will be) world class airtime machines in the same market within the next 2-4 years. If that's not something to shout about, I don't know what would be.

 

 

*Please, PLEASE for the love of God no one mention Goliath, it was omitted for good reason.

Edited November 3, 2011 by Bolliger&Mabillard

[Jew]

I hope you get a reason to visit California but I doubt it. Knott's never seems to fully invest in their projects to make the most out of their investments.

 

I'll give you Pony Express (which was a last minute addition after Jack Falfas liked what he saw at IAAPA), but I would say KBF's project team has done a great job making the most of the space and investing money into the park.

 

Imagine, "Knott's new 300 foot roller coaster was designed by Intamin who has designed 2 other attractions for knotts. Perioulous Plunge, from which a women fell 115' to her death in 2001, as well as Xcelerator which was shut down for an extended period of time after its launch cable snapped seriously injuring several riders on board."

 

I doubt that. In fact, news outlets (and knotts PR) will probably spin it as more construction jobs/tourism money in a down economy.

[Andrewoplis]

I'm sorry if I'm changing the subject, but what do the crowds look like on a Tuesday in November? Are there any rides I need to go on first before the lines get big? Any reply's would be helpful, thanks!

[ABW]

Ghostrider first (this is a must), then Silver Bullet, then go to the back of the park and decide what you want to do from there. It shouldn't be too bad crowd wise

[Bolliger&Mabillard]

Go before the Veterans tribute starts. Ride Ghostrider before it gets a long line and Xcelerator before it gets hot.

[Andrewoplis]

^^ and ^, thanks! But when does "the Veterans tribute" start?

[Guy T. Koepp]

Just curious, did any one else get an online survey from the park about their Halloween Haunt experience this year?

[downunder]

I got the survey.

[PAL]

^^Veterans and their families get in free / at sharply reduced prices from Nov 1 through Thanksgiving. It makes for a few busy weekends. The program started when the Knotts still owned the park. CF to their credit kept it going. My family has always appreciated it. It's good to see so many veterans of all ages in the park enjoying themeselves.

[susie zueck]

I went last year to Knotts on veterans day, and it was probably one of the most crowded days i have ever been to knotts( excluding Haunt). The line for Ghostrider was 1 hour and 45 minutes. The line for Xcelerator was a little over an hour and every line was about 45 minutes to an hour.