China Dinosaur Park Discussion Thread

[FitchCoaster]

On the subject of 4D coasters becoming world-class, I'm glad the idea didn't exactly 'take off'. It's cool just to have a couple spread around the world, they're unique coasters and I think if they were built everywhere, they wouldn't be so unique anymore.

 

Having said that, I for one, am very glad to see another 4D coaster popping up somewhere. Glad the 4D concept hasn't died off just yet, it's such a great idea! I'm excited to see how this one turns out, hopefully it's quite a bit different from X2 and Eejanaika.

[cfc]

Huh? Tranan was a great ride!

 

I agree--like a family version of a 4D coaster.

[Steelinwood]

I guess the fact that there are less of them places for emphasis on the coaster itself. I don't think any of us can say whether it will bad or good either. Let's give it some more time!

[Gutterflower]

Never one to turn down an opportunity of a good Chinese Coaster Web hunt I dug up a couple of news article from the Chinese Press.

 

Could be a proper rendering of just a S&S stock cgi image.

 

Sources:

http://news.ifeng.com/mainland/201002/0209_17_1542923.shtml

http://china.gansudaily.com.cn/system/2010/02/09/011454789.shtml

 

There's also a lot of stories about the massive expansion of this park in the future (a 4D is a big step up from a single spinning wild mouse)

There's some crude CGI of the new area opening this year in May

 

 

 

Source: http://i.dayoo.com/news/v2-news-china/57400/201001/19/57400_100808055.htm

Edited February 16, 2010 by Gutterflower

[CreditCrazy]

Cool news! I'm a huge fan of X2 and I'm glad the Arrow/S&S 4D idea hasn't died yet. Kind of surprising that of all parks this goes to China Dinosaur Park...but I guess that's China for you. Now the only question is what is their rumored coaster for 2010? Or is it just this but pushed back a year?

[CoasterMax]

Very Cool News. I am a fan of the fourth dimension coaster and its future potential. Maybe this will be a step in a more improved version. While I do agree that only having a few of them may keep them more unique, an east coast version would be nice.

[Capitalize]

I would like to see a smaller 4th dimension - more compact layout and such. Less forces could provide a more smooth and reliable ride.

[Erik Johnson]

I really like X2 so this should be fun. I really wish that more parks would order something along the lines of Powder Keg. I honestly think that is the best coaster that S&S has put out so far. It thrilling plus families can ride it.

[Garet]

I think the 4-D coasters have gone from 'past their prime' to 'They still make these things???'. They have not been very successful at all and I am very surprised that another park is installing one, though I am not surprised that it is in China.

 

SS Power should discontinue these heaps of metal and work on engineering more new and cool things such as Tranan at Skara Sommarland.

 

But that is just my opinion .

 

However wasn't the same thing said about the type of rollercoaster in your avatar? Oblivion opened in what 1998 and pretty much except for a clone or two this was assumed as a 'They're still making those things?' type of ride. It wasn't for another 6-7 years until SheiKra opened and the dive machines started to take off again. It's only just passed that benchmark for 4D coasters at 8 years so it still may have a chance yet.

 

I for one am looking forward to this, I move to Korea tommorow for a years teaching contract... may have to see if I can extend it a month or two to try out a 4D coaster (yes I know there's always Eejanaika but i'd rather avoid Fuji-Q if I can)

 

Rob

[dmaxsba2408]

Are the 4D coasters really that bad that they should quit making them as has be suggested in this thread? I never made it out to SFMM to ride the old one or made it out to ride the new (old) one, so I have to go by what I read. Is there any coaster in any park that has a ride similar to the roughness of X2 that I can get an idea of what your talking about?

[SaweetDude04]

I personally love X/X2. While it can be rough, I don't find it to be downright painful and it most certainly doesn't detract from the ride imo. Many wooden coasters are more rough than any ride I've taken on X/X2 such as SOB, Mean Streak, SFNE's Cyclone, Gwazi etc. Eejanaika sounds like it is much rougher than its American sibling. If this new 4D proves itself, I can see this style of coaster take off, but if it fails, then back to the drawing board for tomorrow's biggest thrill. Needless to say I strongly believe that this style of coaster with its current train design is a good 10-20 years ahead of its time and down the road I see it being perfected by another company (unless of course the China model proves itself). Needless to say there is now one more thing to add on to the list of things riding on what happens in China

[themeparkman25]

Deleted by author

Edited January 20, 2011 by themeparkman25

[coasterking2981]

If this new 4D proves itself, I can see this style of coaster take off, but if it fails, then back to the drawing board for tomorrow's biggest thrill.

 

Dont you think it would have taken off right after X/X2 was built?

[SaweetDude04]

^As people have stated before, the Dive Machine was first introduced in 1998. Aside from one clone a year or two later, it took until Sheikra opened in 2005 for the Dive Coaster to really take off, and since then it has. Griffon followed, along with the ones in China and who knows how many more are in the works. And since 1998, the technology has improved from a simple drop into a tunnel followed by a couple of curves (granted Alton Towers height limits may have been a set back, I believe they could have done more...look at Nemesis and Air) to giant 100+ foot tall immelmans and splashdowns. Sheikra really showed what the concept was able to do. It was able to demonstrate the capabilities of this class of coaster. It takes years to perfect their designs and as these styles of coaster get more complex (4D, accelerator) the longer it will take to get parks on board.

 

Another reason for the length of time could simply be the economy. Parks are focusing more on families and less on thrill seekers as of lately. Families spend more when they visit or whatever the reason may be, thats what's going on. Frankly, the most likely parks to install a 4D coaster would be a large Six Flags park from the Kieran Burke days looking to one up the competition in an extravagant way. That's pretty much the main target customer. Since those parks are now looking towards families, as well as having very rounded out coaster collections, the 4D concept was put on the side lines. Now that the economy is beginning to turn around and parks are investing more, Six Flags' 50th anniversary coming up, and of course all the new parks in China opening, I expect to see at least renewed interest in the concept.

 

X, X2 and to some extent Eejanaika were the prototypes. They demonstrated that the concept could be built and that the general public loves the ride. Their problems were capacity and reliability. This new model needs to demonstrate that S&S has been able to overcome these issues. If it cannot do this, then unfortunately the concept will be dead before the first year of operation is over. I believe the main problem is that X set the bar too high, too early. Both Six Flags and Arrow pushed the design way too far in the prototype model. If X was on a smaller scale, I don't think it would have had nearly as many issues, the ride would still be known as X, and the original trains would still be working fine, but you can't change the past.

[Noxegon]

Like perhaps on a TPR 2012 Best of China Trip!

 

Isn't "best of China" a contradiction in terms?

 

Seriously though, there's going to be another Happy Varrey by then, is there not? It might well be time for a third trip out there. There's also stuff like Dalian et al that's apparently well worth it...

[coasterking2981]

^^There's a lot of things you are not considering.

 

First: X's upgrade alone cost about as much as building a small coaster. What does that tell you about the ride itself? Its amazing, but its expensive. Both X2 and Eejanaika also cost more than Intimidator 305, and I305 is faster, taller, and longer than both of them. Also, X, before the upgrade, cost only a few million short of Kingda Ka. You seriously think a lot of parks are going to consider building a coaster that expensive, especially nowadays?

 

Second: Six Flags 50th Anniversary guarantees only that most of the parks, if not all of them, will be receiving something. None of them will be receiving a 4D coaster. They will be investing more into smaller, themed coasters, before we'll ever see a 4D coaster. As I recall, Shapiro said one the parks will be getting a Terminator Salvation clone.

 

Third: It may take years to perfect a design, but it also takes a mass production (so to speak) of the coaster. The Inverted and Floorless designs are as flawless as any coaster can be because B&M was given the chance to experiment with them with each park that demanded one. They toyed with heights, inversions, etc., and look at the inverted coaster design now. You'll find an Inverted coaster (mostly a B&M) at almost every big theme park, outside of Disney and Universal Studios Hollywood.

 

Fourth: If the family is the target customer, parks will not build a 4D coaster.

 

Fifth: X was a prototype. Regardless of the element or the coaster design, ALL prototypes have issues. How many times have parks tried to build loops successfully before Revolution at SFMM? And I'm sure both Corkscrew after and the Matterhorn before had their own problems.

 

I dont see the design dying. But its not going to takeoff, not anytime soon if ever. 4D coasters are like coaster height records; only competing companies will build them, and when they do, it'll be at only one of their parks. If Cedar Fair purchased a taller version of TTD before Kingda Ka at one of their parks, then wouldnt TTD have become a waste of money?

[TPDave]

^Definitely! I just remember reading that the restraints didn't seem very secure, and after looking in to it, it looks like I read that over on Divv3K's trip report. Also, looking at the train more up close and personal at IAAPA, I don't know, just a seat belt on a coaster like that seems weird. Hence my comment.

 

It's not weird at all, i think you actually have to ride it and feel the restraint to understand. I think because it looks a bit like the single lap belt that you find in the back of a small car, you imagine it to feel that way when you're riding but it doesn't. It locks in very securely and I felt totally comfortable while being able to move freely, it was really cool. You've also got to consider that the coaster doesn't do 100 mph or invert, and the I think the restraint matches the movement of the ride perfectly, when we rode it in the summer, everyone had their arms out and was pretending to fly.

 

I wrote about Tranan somewhere else a while back, but in short it's pretty awesome for a concept and I hope more of them get built in the place of wild mice which just seem a bit boring nowadays.

 

Back of the 4D topic, those concept pictures look pretty cool. If even half of that stuff makes it into the final cut the area will look awesome!

 

Dave

[Moose]

Any new version of the 4D built will allow S&S to refine the design, which can only be a good thing.

[Gutterflower]

As if a 4D wasn't enough the park is adding A Motocoaster this year and a as yet unknown looper. (don't want to stoke the fire too much but did we ever find where that yellow B&M track went?)

http://www.rcdb.com/9037.htm

 

It appears there is an investment of 2.3 Billion Yuan being spread around 2 sites which includes Dinosaur Park.

Source: http://news.dichan.sina.com.cn/2010/01/27/116569.html

 

However I'm not sure if the Chinese use the British or American version of 1 Billion so I'm unsure how that equates into dollars really. I think it comes out as $335 million

[Loefet]

^ I'm pretty sure that all points towards that the Yellow B&M track will be going to Ocean Park and their grand expansion...

[Steelinwood]

nope, my wishes aren't true. looks pretty cookie cutter to me.

[FeelTheFORCE]

First: X's upgrade alone cost about as much as building a small coaster. What does that tell you about the ride itself? Its amazing, but its expensive. Both X2 and Eejanaika also cost more than Intimidator 305, and I305 is faster, taller, and longer than both of them. Also, X, before the upgrade, cost only a few million short of Kingda Ka. You seriously think a lot of parks are going to consider building a coaster that expensive, especially nowadays?

 

I dont see the design dying. But its not going to takeoff, not anytime soon if ever. 4D coasters are like coaster height records; only competing companies will build them, and when they do, it'll be at only one of their parks. If Cedar Fair purchased a taller version of TTD before Kingda Ka at one of their parks, then wouldnt TTD have become a waste of money?

 

I agree. I don't know how accurate this is, but according to Wikipedia (Link to Wiki Page), the "cost" of X/X2 is $46,000,000. That's a hell of a lot of money for a coaster...even by Universal's and Disney's standards, let alone Six Flags'. 4D coasters seem like money pits to me. They are AWESOME coasters (as you can see in my sig, X is my all-time favorite steel), but as you said, it's definitely not something I'd expect to see being built every couple years, and taking off. But who knows, maybe S&S has come on to something in the last few years, refining the design or something like that, that has lowered the cost.

 

It's really neat that a new one IS being built, though. Even though I'll never ride it, I can't wait to follow it's progress!

[A113]

So far I'm happy that this won't be another X2 (the outside raven turn isn't in the rendering, if you haven't noticed).

 

 

So we might be looking at an Eejanaika clone or possibly a brand new concept.

[coasterking2981]

^Can we have a link?

 

^^Yeah. But I think that's one of the few articles on Wikipedia that's completely true.

[4rturo]

Remember that it is not a render of the actual coaster, it might just be a render S&S uses to show the 4D concept

We'll just have to wait....