Busch Gardens Williamsburg (BGW BGE) Discussion Thread

[cfc]

Darn. That makes a lot of sense.

 

I heard that their shows are pretty good. I'll probably hold off until next year, then.

 

Celtic Fyre, yes.

 

Britmania?. . .well. . . it was like listening to a bar cover band. . the musicianship is good, the staging is ok, but really not all that interesting.

 

just our take on it.

 

(we enjoyed the show performed in the Festhaus, tho it is very much a "theme park show". . but you can drink beer while watching

 

You summed up Britmania pretty well.

[chickenbowl]

I went to the park yesterday and had a fantastic day at the park but I had an interesting experience on the way home.

 

DISCLAIMER: I am not the type to spin rumors and I almost hate to even mention it, but this did happen and I don't even know what to think. Take with a large grain of salt.

 

On the tram while leaving the park last night, the "guide" said to make plans now to come back in 2020 when they would be building a rollercoaster about twice the size of Apollo made by the same people.

 

I don't know if the tram man has more or less credibility than the dippin dots guy, but it was still worth a mention. The guy was kinda funny and joking around, as many of the tram guides tend to do, but he said this seriously.

 

Either way, coaster or not, I don't know that it was entirely appropriate to discuss it the way he did.

 

Woah, very interesting info!

 

Keep this hype train rolling!

[Trevor Hamilton]

I've been extremely skeptical about a giga (and I still am), but I have been wondering this whole time... where would they put it exactly? I mean I know where the height test was but gigas are HUGE. Where would Busch find the space to fit an entire layout for a giga? Especially if it's manufactured by B&M?

[CaptainUnknown]

I went to the park yesterday and had a fantastic day at the park but I had an interesting experience on the way home.

 

DISCLAIMER: I am not the type to spin rumors and I almost hate to even mention it, but this did happen and I don't even know what to think. Take with a large grain of salt.

 

On the tram while leaving the park last night, the "guide" said to make plans now to come back in 2020 when they would be building a rollercoaster about twice the size of Apollo made by the same people.

 

I don't know if the tram man has more or less credibility than the dippin dots guy, but it was still worth a mention. The guy was kinda funny and joking around, as many of the tram guides tend to do, but he said this seriously.

 

Either way, coaster or not, I don't know that it was entirely appropriate to discuss it the way he did.

 

Woah, very interesting info!

 

Keep this hype TRAM rolling!

 

FTFY

 

But this does fit in somewhat with me noticing that the height restriction waiver said that construction must begin within 3 years. I would imagine that giga construction would start in August 2019 for a potential 2020 opening. But still...

[cfc]

I've been extremely skeptical about a giga (and I still am), but I have been wondering this whole time... where would they put it exactly? I mean I know where the height test was but gigas are HUGE. Where would Busch find the space to fit an entire layout for a giga? Especially if it's manufactured by B&M?

 

I don't know if the park is planning to build a gigacoaster, but I'm certain there's room for one. They own a lot of land they haven't built on yet.

[Brassinthegrass]

I know it's close proximity, but could we be looking at an accelerator style ride? Kingda Ka is only a few hours up I-95, but a 300ft tower with massive airtime at the top could be an intire different experience. Especially if they add a huge loop after the tophat... this would explain the 300ft height with the limited footprint ideas...

[defrocker]

I certainly never say never, but I can't see BGW ever going the route of an accelerator. For one, they have added 2 launched coasters in the past 5 years. It seems pretty rare for a park to have more than 2 launchers.

 

Also, and it may just be me, but that type of really really doesn't seem to "fit" the type of ride that Busch would build. Then again, they seem to have stepped away from "typical BG" especially with Tempesto. Also, how much marketability do big top hat coasters have at this point in the US? We haven't really seen one in the past decade. I honestly think that any park that would want to spend $25 mil+ would likely be better off with a giga than an accelerator, especially when you factor in reliability and maintenance.

 

I don't know, and I've certainly been wrong before, but I would say there's not much of a chance of that happening.

[SLCHeadache]

I certainly never say never, but I can't see BGW ever going the route of an accelerator. For one, they have added 2 launched coasters in the past 5 years. It seems pretty rare for a park to have more than 2 launchers.

 

Also, and it may just be me, but that type of really really doesn't seem to "fit" the type of ride that Busch would build. Then again, they seem to have stepped away from "typical BG" especially with Tempesto. Also, how much marketability do big top hat coasters have at this point in the US? We haven't really seen one in the past decade. I honestly think that any park that would want to spend $25 mil+ would likely be better off with a giga than an accelerator, especially when you factor in reliability and maintenance.

 

I don't know, and I've certainly been wrong before, but I would say there's not much of a chance of that happening.

Kings Dominion had 4 launched coasters between Backlot's opening and Hypersonic's closing.

 

I just don't think it will be anything Intamin, period. Apparently one of the BGW higher-ups doesn't like Intamin or something? That's why Verbolten and Mach Tower were not Intamin like their Tampa counterparts.

[defrocker]

Ok, so KD had 4. I'm aware of that. I'm also aware that CP has 3. That's not what I said though. I said it's rare. There can't be more than a handful of parks with more than 2.

 

And yeah, whatever it is, it won't be an Intamin. But it will be big. So if were talking coasters here, it's almost guaranteed to be a B&M. Not sure who else would go that big.

[SLCHeadache]

If the new coaster is not going to be for 2018 - and I can see that, giving the new VR thing its time in the spotlight - fanboy mode engaged, maybe it could be an RMC T-Rex?

[prozach626]

^And without "Fanboy mode" engaged, you'll see that it will likely be a B&M **IF** the park is building a coaster, especially with the success of Fury 325. They will want something to compete with I305. Maybe not in terms of ride intensity or experience for the average coaster enthusiast, but catered toward the average park visitor and re-rideability, like Fury 325. I also doubt the first T-Rex will be a giga.

[Brassinthegrass]

All fair points, but what would they be building at the 300ft level that's not a drop tower and not a coaster? Nothing else in parks go that high (other than an observation tower, but I can't really see them building one...)

[average.coaster.fan]

All fair points, but what would they be building at the 300ft level that's not a drop tower and not a coaster? Nothing else in parks go that high (other than an observation tower, but I can't really see them building one...)

 

A Starflyer

[SLCHeadache]

^And without "Fanboy mode" engaged, you'll see that it will likely be a B&M **IF** the park is building a coaster, especially with the success of Fury 325. They will want something to compete with I305. Maybe not in terms of ride intensity or experience for the average coaster enthusiast, but catered toward the average park visitor and re-rideability, like Fury 325. I also doubt the first T-Rex will be a giga.

If it's 2020, then it's a sliver of a chance. Intamin went from Ride of Steel in 1999 to Millennium Force in 2000.

 

*disengages*

 

Knowing SeaWorld's financial troubles at this point, I say bring on the StarFlyer (or even observation tower) and a spinning or other family-friendly coaster in 2019 to anchor a hypothetical Spain section. Maybe some thrill flats to round it out.

[Jcoaster]

Who says it would have to B&M? I know BGW has a great relationship with them but maybe Mack or Gerlauster could venture into the Giga coaster field.

[defrocker]

I would think and hope that BGW would have learned from Verbolten that they tend to do best when they stick to the manufacturers for proven products. If it's a coaster, I can't see it not being B&M.

[coasterbill]

Knowing SeaWorld's financial troubles at this point, I say bring on the StarFlyer (or even observation tower) and a spinning or other family-friendly coaster in 2019 to anchor a hypothetical Spain section. Maybe some thrill flats to round it out.

 

I'm speculating and pulling things out of my a** quite a bit with this post and that's not normally something I like to do but I think SeaWorld's financial troubles are why they're investing so heavily in Williamsburg right now.

 

Williamsburg is the one "major" property that's been mostly unaffected by the negative PR surrounding SeaWorld. Very few people know that they're affiliated with SeaWorld in any way, and unlike the Tampa park they're not piggybacking off of a damaged brand. There are plenty of people out there that don't know SeaWorld and Busch Tampa are affiliated (though many people do since they push their combo tickets so hard) but that park basically relies on people making a 90 minute drive from Orlando and a lot of the reason that's worked for so long is because of their partnership with SeaWorld. People can buy incredibly cheap (by Orlando theme park standards) 2 day tickets in advance, upgrade their SeaWorld ticket once they're in the park and even take a bus from SeaWorld if they don't have a rental car. Without that partnership, BGT would be absolutely empty on offseason weekdays and would never be able to operate 365 days a year without bleeding money. SeaWorld is dragging that park down with them, the only parks that haven't really been hurt by Blackfish are Williamsburg and Sesame Place.

 

Again... I'm speaking out of my a** here but I firmly believe that coaster fans in Williamsburg are benefiting from SeaWorld's problems because it's caused the chain to double down on this park because it's basically the only place where they can generate a return on their investment and try to generate slightly rosier numbers to present to the shareholders. The park has felt some ill effects from Blackfish in the form of cost-cutting measures with shows / animal exhibits but they're doubling down on coasters because they need to drive up attendance in Williamsburg to cut into their losses elsewhere.

 

Looking at the TEA numbers (which are all we have to go on, I'm aware that they shouldn't be taken as gospel), you can see that SeaWorld Orlando dropped 7.9% the year they added a huge B&M hyper coaster and Busch Gardens Tampa dropped 2% despite adding Cobra's Curse. It's virtually unheard of for a park to add a hypercoaster and see a drop in attendance, a 7.9% drop is devastating. The Tampa number is also horrendous, though slightly less so.

 

Meanwhile, Williamsburg seems to be responding in very predictable ways to major investments. In 2015 (the year they added Tempesto), they saw a 3% jump in attendance. On their Q1 call (where they discussed their April results as well) they noted that Williamsburg set an all time attendance record for April thanks to invadR and Joel Manby stated that it was their "most efficient coaster spend".

 

They're not adding an observation tower and I highly doubt they're adding a Star Flyer either. In my opinion, they're adding a huge coaster because they know that they need to double down on this park since it's the path of least resistance when it comes to improving their overall numbers.The only other thing they could really do is build another Sesame Place and... surprise, they're planning to do just that.

[defrocker]

I've kinda been along this line of thinking as well. Also, if you consider the fact that BGW hasn't really had a major investment since 2012 with Verbolten, it seems that could use it. They've seen Tempesto, which is a fairly inexpensive addition, and InvadR, which recycled many of the pricier parts from Gwazi and has a pretty small footprint. Both of these were easy-on-the-budget additions.

 

If you look at SeaWorld as a whole, weaker numbers is not exactly a new phenomenon, yet they still are pumping money into their parks. Mack launch coaster, Intamin launch coaster, B&M hyper, GCI woodie... these are just over the last couple years. It's not out of the question to have the plans in the works for a major investment into, arguably, their best performing park a few years from now.

 

Also, BGW and KD have different target markets and a major coaster addition would let BGW reach over into some of who KD appeals to and steal some business.

 

Again, all of this is purely conjecture, however, I don't think the company having a rather poor 2016/17 is an excuse for one of their parks to not get an investment in 2020. The question should be, if their market research team sees potential ROI, why would they NOT do it?

[Trevor Hamilton]

I'd honestly rather speculate about the new Spain section itself (IF we're getting a whole new area). Over the next few years we could see a coaster, some flat rides, and maybe even a show or dark ride. I'd love to see what BGW can do with a whole new section.

[CoasterAuditor]

I personally really would like for BGW to get a nice flat ride package so hopefully if we do see a new hamlet go in we get 2 or 3 flats going in at some point.

[coastin_dude]

A GCI, RMC, and giga in consecutive years in the same 2 hour radius? God damn!

[Rayj]

So I decided to ride alpengeist to find out if it is as bad as people say, and I'm usually a back row person, worst. decision. ever. That cobra roll was deadly. I didn't get a chance to ride front row, but I assume it's smoother with less rattle.

[coasterbill]

[boldikus]

So I decided to ride alpengeist to find out if it is as bad as people say, and I'm usually a back row person, worst. decision. ever. That cobra roll was deadly. I didn't get a chance to ride front row, but I assume it's smoother with less rattle.

[Woodie Warrior]

My dad and I are going to be in Virginia October 19-22. I know the park will most likely be packed all of these days, but would Friday or Saturday be better? Is Quick Queue needed? Thanks in advance.