Kings Island (KI) Discussion Thread

[cal1br3tto]

I've heard so much opposing speculation on Banshee that I'll definitely just have to wait and see for myself. I've gotten some enjoyment out of every B&M I've ridden, and never found one to be truly forceless. Until recently I readily called them one of my top manufacturers even though I felt a bit outspoken in this. But I've finally joined many of you in feeling they've grown a bit stale. It's not only the ride experience, but also a desire to see some fresh blood in the major coaster world, or at least some of the established companies branching out with innovative new designs.

[Superbatboy]

Love the first drop and 2nd vertical loop, not sure about the rest

[aCoasterStory]

Having ridden Montu today (and really enjoying the forces through the batwing), I don't know that Banshee will be going fast enough throughout the entire element for it to be anywhere near the same.

 

Montu's & Banshee's batwings are designed differently. Motnu's is broken into segments, with snappy transitions. Banshee's flows more uniformly.

 

Also, the exit of the batwing passes under the entrance rather than to the side.

 

This is more like the "pretzel knott" element used on Moonsault Scramble than a true batwing used by many Arrow loopers, and Montu and Afterburn

 

Good comparison. I knew they were different, but I guess I didn't realize quite how different they were. Looking at those photos, I'd almost say Banshee looks closer to a dive loop/immelmann combo than an actual batwing.

 

That being said, if you think about it, Banshee's layout is almost like they took Montu and stretched it. The order of the elements is remarkably similar. Montu starts off with curved drop, loop, immelmann, 0-G roll. Banshee starts with curved drop, immelmann, loop, 0-G roll. Then both have their "batwing" elements and a 2nd loop. Montu's last element is a corkscrew, while Banshee has that long inline twist, but their list of elements is remarkably similar. Of course, they're going to be nothing alike in actual ride experience, but it does make you wonder if someone was all like, "what if we took Montu but made it taller and made all of the ride elements huge instead of small and snappy?"

[Woodie Warrior]

Love the first drop and 2nd vertical loop, not sure about the rest

Oh, wow. You've ridden it already?

 

Not trying to be rude, but shouldn't we stop trying to judge a ride before it even opens?

[Fooz]

Off-ride footage is often a good indicator of how a ride might be. Sky rush looked insanely fast when testing, and gatekeeper looked very slow.

[Woodie Warrior]

Anyways, the labeled park map has been added to the website https://www.visitkingsisland.com/images/uploads/file/2014%20Map.pdf

[Dr. M]

^ The first drop looks like it has some nice speed!

 

Uh... I should hope so.

 

This might be the next generation of inverts we're looking at, but it might also be the moment the invert finally jumps the shark. I'm hoping for a big shake-up in the coaster world, where the riding public at large, I'm talking the GP, says, "Ok, big drop, bunch of inversions, we get it. We don't need any more of these rides. Something new, please." Call it unlikely all you want, but I don't think it's impossible. Personally I think B&M better hop on the launch coaster bandwagon or they're gonna be left behind.

[coasterbill]

"Ok, big drop, bunch of inversions, we get it. We don't need any more of these rides.

 

Since the only other coaster at Kings Island that really fits this profile where the whole ride is about the inversions is Vortex I doubt this will happen. I think it's safe to say Banshee will blow Vortex away and I doubt people will consider the best traditional looping coaster in the park "jumping the shark". Maybe if they built 5 more rides like Banshee it might happen but otherwise I doubt it. Banshee will be a very unique experience for this park.

[Dr. M]

^I was talking the industry in general, not just this park, and something that would happen slowly, not just with one ride.

[The Yeti]

I think the test run makes it look pretty darn good. I'm still disappointed with the zero-g roll despite its massiveness...it just looks boring compared to B&M's old style. The rest of the ride does look like it's taken at a good speed, and with Banshee's size it could even be moving faster than it looks. Of course, the ride could be testing without trims...

[prozach626]

 

Not trying to be rude, but shouldn't we stop trying to judge a ride before it even opens?

 

^this

[A.J.]

^I was talking the industry in general, not just this park, and something that would happen slowly, not just with one ride.

Big multi-loopers will probably never go away. They're a lot more marketable, especially for larger parks. I could see small airtime machines like Lightning Run and the Mega Lites being built in smaller parks, but those coasters don't have anywhere near the appeal and/or "wow" factor of a big multi-looper.

 

Also, I for one prefer chain lift coasters over launched ones.

[Superbatboy]

Love the first drop and 2nd vertical loop, not sure about the rest

Oh, wow. You've ridden it already?

 

Not trying to be rude, but shouldn't we stop trying to judge a ride before it even opens?

 

So I guess I should've just watched the vid and shut my mouth like a good boy huh?

[Superbatboy]

Off-ride footage is often a good indicator of how a ride might be. Sky rush looked insanely fast when testing, and gatekeeper looked very slow.

Exactly!

[OrlandoGuy]

^ The first drop looks like it has some nice speed!

 

Uh... I should hope so.

 

This might be the next generation of inverts we're looking at, but it might also be the moment the invert finally jumps the shark. I'm hoping for a big shake-up in the coaster world, where the riding public at large, I'm talking the GP, says, "Ok, big drop, bunch of inversions, we get it. We don't need any more of these rides. Something new, please." Call it unlikely all you want, but I don't think it's impossible. Personally I think B&M better hop on the launch coaster bandwagon or they're gonna be left behind.

 

You can say that about any ride, though. If B&M were to get "left behind", and their presence in the industry were to be minimized, the market would be dominated by Intamin hyper-twisters and Mega-Lites...of which the GP would then eventually say they dont need any more of those either.

 

B&M are the only company that do these mega-loopers (correctly). For that reason alone theyll always be relevant in the market in my opinion. But even more significant is B&M's ability to innovate. In just about 20 years the company has come up with eight (by my count, correct me if Im wrong) different styles of roller coasters, all of which have been met with massiv success...what other coaster company has that amount of marketable variety in their catalogue?

 

They dont need to do launches and they dont need to make rides that are ridiculously intense. They offer parks with reliable looping rides in several different styles that other companies cant match. Even if Banshee is relatively "forceless", itll be a people-pleaser that offers something different from the rest of the Kings Island lineup, and the same can be said of many other parks that will continue to utilize B&M's servives for years to come.

[coasterkyle]

B&M are the only company that do these mega-loopers (correctly). For that reason alone theyll always be relevant in the market in my opinion. But even more significant is B&M's ability to innovate. In just about 20 years the company has come up with eight (by my count, correct me if Im wrong) different styles of roller coasters, all of which have been met with massiv success...what other coaster company has that amount of marketable variety in their catalogue?

 

First off I agree B&M as a company now doesn't need launches, They are doing very well.

 

But Your statement about other company's variety in products have to disagree. If were talking about in terms of most offerings, I would give that to Intamin, Mack, and Zamperla They offer not just a variety of different coaster styles but as well as a huge selection of Flats. If you were talking just in coasters, Intamin or Vekoma would be my picks. According to there websites Vekoma has 10 different styles of coasters while Intamin has 26 styles (water coaster Included). but If you want to go off how the trains are set up like how B&M is then just for the sake of typing I'll write down the different styles of Intamin provides, Half Wing Style, Sitdown OTSR, Sitdown Lapbar, Spinning Coaster, Mine Train Coaster, Wing coaster, Half Pipe, Zach Spin, Wooden Coaster, AquatraX, Inverted, and Motobike. While not every single product hasn't had the success of B&M's products I don't see many people (enthusiasts and GP) wanting to go back to CP (for example ) For Raptor, Mantis, or Gatekeeper. So in terms of success differs whether your saying whose sold more or what people like. Not to 8 of the top 12 in Mitch hawkers 2012 steel poll were Intamin and 2 B&M or on the 2013 wooden coaster poll 3 in the top 10.

[gerstlaueringvar]

There is something I don't understand, is B&M making their prototype of their earlier coaster types more intense than the later ones to test if the train and the track can handle the speed, force etc? Iron Wolf/Apocalypse, Batman, Kumba, Medusa/Bizarro, Apollo's Chariot all seem more intense than most of the coasters on their type.

[tarheel1231]

Do parks trim inverted coasters? If not, I sure hope the park doesn't trim the hell out of it.

[gerstlaueringvar]

^ I remember hearing the sound of trim brakes while watching B&M Invert POV's which means those trim brakes are on. Just a matter of how much Banshee got trimmed down because there are a few of them installed on the track already.

[Koasterking48]

Do parks trim inverted coasters? If not, I sure hope the park doesn't trim the hell out of it.

Yes, Montu has a trim going into the batwing.

[Brassinthegrass]

There is something I don't understand, is B&M making their prototype of their earlier coaster types more intense than the later ones to test if the train and the track can handle the speed, force etc? Iron Wolf/Apocalypse, Batman, Kumba, Medusa/Bizarro, Apollo's Chariot all seem more intense than most of the coasters on their type.

 

I'm not sure if its the prototype or the time period. All of your coasters listed were built back when B&M was building more forceful coasters. But once again, as I have said for many years, B&M is interested in making great coasters, not the tallest, not the fastest, just fun, re-ridable rides. This is the type of coaster 90% of parks are looking for. Even today, you can walk around SFGAdv and see that the line for Kingda Ka and El Toro never match that of Nitro, Superman, Batman and Bizzaro. The GP as a whole likes fun rides, not intense. A park does have to please us thrill seekers, but the majority of park goers are families, which include those that want "less than insane" coasters

[rcjp]

^ I remember hearing the sound of trim brakes while watching B&M Invert POV's which means those trim brakes are on. Just a matter of how much Banshee got trimmed down because there are a few of them installed on the track already.

Are there? I didn't realized that. I thought there was a change of having no trims but, well.....

[Coaster19]

Love the first drop and 2nd vertical loop, not sure about the rest

Oh, wow. You've ridden it already?

 

Not trying to be rude, but shouldn't we stop trying to judge a ride before it even opens?

 

So I guess I should've just watched the vid and shut my mouth like a good boy huh?

 

No that video have us an idea what the ride will be like, how ever there are some factors to place into your mind before we assume the ride will be forceless.

 

The camera used, the distance the ride is from camera, the true size of the ride. We don't have an specifics and this can obscure our perception of the ride.

 

I think we can tell more once the pov comes out.

[coasterfreak101]

Even today, you can walk around SFGAdv and see that the line for Kingda Ka and El Toro never match that of Nitro, Superman, Batman and Bizzaro. The GP as a whole likes fun rides, not intense. A park does have to please us thrill seekers, but the majority of park goers are families, which include those that want "less than insane" coasters.

 

...I'm not sure what Six Flags Great Adventure you're spending time at, but Ka and Toro are both consistent 45-minute lines even on non-busy days, when three of the four you listed are somewhere between a walk-on and a ten-minute wait and the other (Superman) only takes a half hour because of the horrid capacity. I've never seen a day when El Toro's line is shorter than Batman or Nitro's, and especially not Bizarro's - and, other than Nitro, they've all got pretty on-par capacity (seeing as Bizarro double-stacks every run).

 

Not every ride in a park needs to be crazy, but if you think that rides like Toro and Intimidator - which, mind you, has held Kings Dominion crowds for five years straight now and talk hasn't died down - aren't a huge deal even for the GP, you're definitely wrong.

[coasterbill]

...I'm not sure what Six Flags Great Adventure you're spending time at, but Ka and Toro are both consistent 45-minute lines even on non-busy days, when three of the four you listed are somewhere between a walk-on and a ten-minute wait and the other (Superman) only takes a half hour because of the horrid capacity. I've never seen a day when El Toro's line is shorter than Batman or Nitro's, and especially not Bizarro's - and, other than Nitro, they've all got pretty on-par capacity (seeing as Bizarro double-stacks every run).

 

I agree with everything you said here. El Toro, Superman, Kingda Ka and for some idiotic reason Green Lantern always have the longest lines in the park besides SORA. Nitro and Batman are always much shorter and unless the park is packed Bizarro is usually a 10 minute wait or less even with it's horrendous dispatch times.