Kings Island (KI) Discussion Thread

[KBrylczyk]

^ Alright, it's not THAT much of a difference.

[Koasterking48]

This: Is really not much different than this

Yes they still are more reclined (had to use a Wing Coaster as an example), but there is not much difference. Please excuse the bad quality of first pic.

[coasterfreak101]

Yeah, B&M's seats have always been bucket-like, it might just be that the backs of the Wing Coaster seats are slanted rather than totally vertical which makes the entire thing look much more reclined.

[tarheel1231]

^I think the seats may be more about preventing headbanging than being more reclined.

 

[EDIT] Also, we're getting closer!

[rcjp]

^Honestly I don't see exactly how they could reduce headbanging just from being reclined, I assume it has to do with the shape of the restraints.

[cfc]

Maybe La-Z-Boy is sponsoring the ride.

[DavidW]

This weeks time lapse videos. Week 29 (02/10/14 - 02/16/14):

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[prozach626]

All aboard the B&M hate train...

 

I feel the same way you do. It's becoming more and more of the 'cool' thing to do. They are the Six Flags of roller coasters, I guess.

 

^It looks like quite a few new B&Ms in China are better than other new ones, so the question is: Is it really B&M who has stopped making great rides or is it the parks which, right now, only seem to want forceless rides?

 

You make a great point. The influence could be coming largely from the parks, and not so much B&M. If you look at it from a park standpoint, a coaster is in most cases as smooth as it will ever be the day it opens. It will only continue to become less and less smooth as it gets older. The parks likely feel that if they get the smoothest ride experience possible on day one the coaster may hold up much longer than some of the coasters in the past. You also have to take into account that one of the top heard complaints from the GP is that a coaster was too rough. Hence why even non coaster enthusiasts don't want to ride old school vekomas/arrows, despite how thrilling some of them may look.

 

I personally look at B&M as the Cadillac of coasters. Even though a 'performance' model Cadillac coupe may be fast, very comfortable, and they perform well, they are not always that fun, because they are too refined. They hold up well, they are always beautiful to look at, and no one will ever pass up a drive. However, when it comes down to it you have way more fun flinging the ugly Subaru around the corners, because it just has more 'feel' to it. You may be more likely to break parts, but there's much more excitement during the process. (I had to throw my Subaru bias in there..)

 

Either way, my fingers are crossed that this Cadillac will have a little more feel to it. If not, I'm still certain it will be an enjoyable ride.

[Dr. M]

This:[attachment=0]image.jpg[/attachment] Is really not much different than this[attachment=1]image.jpg[/attachment]

Yes they still are more reclined (had to use a Wing Coaster as an example), but there is not much difference. Please excuse the bad quality of first pic.

 

It's really hard to tell from the angle of the first pic, but I can tell you for certain I've never been on a coaster seat that felt anywhere near as "bucket shaped" as Gate Keeper's (and I'd ridden Raptor that day as well). If you look closely, I think you'll see the difference is actually fairly pronounced. Look at how sharp an angle their knees come up at. Look at the smaller kid, doesn't he look fairly "bunched up" to you? I wouldn't be surprised if he needed help climbing into the seat. Unless I'm remembering wrong, the fact that the wing coasters don't need drop-away floors in the station also helps to prove my point.

[gerstlaueringvar]

Does Banshee use the drop away loading platform? I guess the seat design is to increase the capacity.

[CoasterGuy06]

^ That's a good point. This photo from KI's Twitter page looks like there is not a dropping floor.

[gerstlaueringvar]

No wonder GateKeeper's line seems always moving with three train operation... B&M certainly is trying everything they can to increase the capacity.

 

Part of me think it's very wise but part of me think it takes away some riding experience. I personally don't like the feeling of sinking into the seat.

 

I also think B&M needs to find a way to increse the arm space. It feels very uncomfortable to sit next to a sweaty rider on a B&M with OTSR's and I hate how the OTSR's stop me from putting my hands up. Intamin, on the other hand, allow riders to wave their hands freely.

[tarheel1231]

Does Banshee use the drop away loading platform? I guess the seat design is to increase the capacity.

 

Here's your answer:

Construction of the ride station area has begun. Worth noting is the floor under the train will not drop as it does with other inverted roller coasters.

Source

[rcjp]

^Well that's a first for inverts.

No wonder GateKeeper's line seems always moving with three train operation... B&M certainly is trying everything they can to increase the capacity.

 

Part of me think it's very wise but part of me think it takes away some riding experience. I personally don't like the feeling of sinking into the seat.

 

I also think B&M needs to find a way to increse the arm space. It feels very uncomfortable to sit next to a sweaty rider on a B&M with OTSR's and I hate how the OTSR's stop me from putting my hands up. Intamin, on the other hand, allow riders to wave their hands freely.

Don't forget B&Ms usually seat four across unlike intamin, which is one of the things that make the capacity so great. The only intamin I've been on which seats four in the same row was skyrush and that has rather wide trains which will stop them from doing really snappy transitions. Don't get me wrong, Skyrush is very very twisty but if you actually compare its changes in direction to maverick's or I305's they are slower.

[gerstlaueringvar]

^Well that's a first for inverts.

No wonder GateKeeper's line seems always moving with three train operation... B&M certainly is trying everything they can to increase the capacity.

 

Part of me think it's very wise but part of me think it takes away some riding experience. I personally don't like the feeling of sinking into the seat.

 

I also think B&M needs to find a way to increse the arm space. It feels very uncomfortable to sit next to a sweaty rider on a B&M with OTSR's and I hate how the OTSR's stop me from putting my hands up. Intamin, on the other hand, allow riders to wave their hands freely.

Don't forget B&Ms usually seat four across unlike intamin, which is one of the things that make the capacity so great. The only intamin I've been on which seats four in the same row was skyrush and that has rather wide trains which will stop them from doing really snappy transitions. Don't get me wrong, Skyrush is very very twisty but if you actually compare its changes in direction to maverick's or I305's they are slower.

But when B&M stopped making crazy transitions for 11 years, it's time to make a change.

[traincrossin]

It's like some of you don't understand. Parks want a capacity monster of a roller coaster that's reliable and appeals to as many people as it can, B&M is only building rides based on the park's specifications. GateKeeper got over 2.1 million riders last season so I don't think the general public cares that much about a ride's intensity.

[tarheel1231]

From Kings Island's Twitter:

[B.A.B]

I think it would be cool if they added bat heads on the trains, but I highly doubt they will. I bet they will just paint them black and put the logo of the ride on the front car.

[bonsaiisuperstar]

Indeed.

[B.A.B]

^ The orginal Bat trains look so awesome. Also were those trains used on Vampire at Chessington at one point? I watched an old commerical of Vampire a while back and it looked like it used to have similar trains to The Bat's.

[Dr. M]

It's like some of you don't understand. Parks want a capacity monster of a roller coaster that's reliable and appeals to as many people as it can, B&M is only building rides based on the park's specifications. GateKeeper got over 2.1 million riders last season so I don't think the general public cares that much about a ride's intensity.

 

Build a big new roller coaster, people will ride it. Period. Compare Gatekeeper's opening season to Skyrush's, taking overall park attendance into account, and I doubt you'll see much of a difference. It's like defending a movie like Transformers 2 by pointing out how well it did at the box office. When discussing the quality of the movie , it's utterly irrelevant.

[coasterfreak101]

Don't forget B&Ms usually seat four across unlike intamin, which is one of the things that make the capacity so great.

 

Keep in mind that Intamin seats four to a car - the trains are longer than those from B&M but typically carry the same number of riders. Millennium Force even runs nine cars of four, seating 36 riders per train - something that only a select few B&M hypers achieve. Without those exceptions, the vast majority of both manufacturers' coasters seat seven or eight cars of four, regardless of arrangement.

 

What gives B&M the capacity edge is really just their layouts - they design rides to be mostly equitemporal (made that up) between blocks, allowing up to three trains to run extremely smoothly with good operations. Intamin tends to design their rides to be shorter but without an MCBR, though that shorter length is still longer than one individual half of a B&M coaster resulting in a) only two-train operation and b) the inability to release the second train until the first has hit the final brakes. You get a nonstop, action-packed experience instead of B&M's go-to loop combination, but you sacrifice a bit of capacity.

[goatdan]

What gives B&M the capacity edge is really just their layouts - they design rides to be mostly equitemporal (made that up) between blocks, allowing up to three trains to run extremely smoothly with good operations. Intamin tends to design their rides to be shorter but without an MCBR, though that shorter length is still longer than one individual half of a B&M coaster resulting in a) only two-train operation and b) the inability to release the second train until the first has hit the final brakes. You get a nonstop, action-packed experience instead of B&M's go-to loop combination, but you sacrifice a bit of capacity.

 

Actually, in two train operation you can release a second train before the first has hit the final brakes as long as the train that is hitting the final brakes is to clear those final brakes before the train in front of it drops off the lift. It's a blocking system, and it's top of lift to the end of the first brake that needs to be clear to send a train. If the block in front of it is clear, you're good to go.

 

B&Ms have such good capacity because B&M designs for capacity. Arrow rides, which were also two across, have ridiculous capacity too because that company more or less came into existence thanks to Disney, which was huge on capacity for the longest time (when they ran ride tickets, the more capacity a ride had, the more money it made).

 

The big thing is how quick it is to check trains, and that is where B&M rules the roost in most cases. Think of your average B&M hyper load / unload - you get in, lower bar, quick check, and go. For Intamin hypers, there is a seat belt that needs to be checked too. That adds load time and decreases capacity. Two train op on longer rides does the same thing.

[DBru]

GateKeeper got over 2.1 million riders last season so I don't think the general public cares that much about a ride's intensity.

 

The general consensus of GateKeeper from guests last season was "kind of lame." Hence why the ride was basically a walk-on at the end of the night all season long. So I would argue that the general public does care about the ride experience.

[tarheel1231]

I don't if it was mentioned before, but: