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Canada's Wonderland Discussion Thread

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Thanks for the link, nice shots and I dig the tunes!


Here's why it doesn't matter which angle the ride falls at, its the overall height that effect the speed.


MF at Cedar Point has a drop of 300 feet and hits 93 MPH while MM's Goliath is 255 feet and hits 85.


As you can see, regardless of the angles of the drops (which are substantially different (Goliath at 61 degrees and MF at 80 degrees)) the top speed to height of the drop ratios are pretty consistent with one another. It goes to show that degree of drop really has no outcome on the overall speed of the coaster.


MForce 93/300 =.31 as compared to

Goliath 85/255 =.33


Factors that come into play with the differences in these numbers could be the "stall" at the top of Goliath's drop, as opposed to the "push" you get at the top of MF because it doesn't slow down.


I mean, there's a lot of factors, but you can see how consistent the rides are with the laws of gravity.

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This thing is going to be a good coaster no matter what. What B&M isnt good? They might not all be great but they are all good!


Iron Wolf, Mantis, etc...


Both stand ups. Stand ups are an uncomfortable fad.


You really don't see any bad sit down B&Ms. Some are better then others obviously, but even an average B&M is going to be better then most of the competition.


I know, just being a smartass


Stand ups ARE the dumbest gimmick in the history modern of roller coasters.

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Stand ups ARE the dumbest gimmick in the history modern of roller coasters.


Most uncomfortable, maybe.


But I wouldn't say dumbest. The concept itself is good, it just doesn't work out all that well in most cases.


I could think of many gimmicks which were "dumber" then the standup coaster.

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I could think of many gimmicks which were "dumber" then the standup coaster.

Like putting 4 inline twists in a row and then another one right after a little turn to breaak double digit inversion counts, perhaps? Or a steel loop in a wooden coaster? Might these be some "gimmicks" to which you are referring?


'Cause if they are, I totally agree.

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I actually like stand-up coasters. Mantis and especially Chang are great rides which feel TOTALLY different than a sit-down coaster. They really do give you a completely different ride than if they used standard trains. In some cases (Iron Wolf, Togo Death Traps, etc...) the stand-up concept wasn't pulled off well, but they are just as painful as a rough Vekoma SLC. Would you say that inverted coasters are a stupid gimmick based solely on SLC's? I wouldn't.


I'm yet to ride a floorless coaster, but from what I've heard it's a pretty pointless gimmick because it doesn't actually effect how the ride feels. It's purely a visual thing. Even Behemoths new style of train should have a larger impact on the feel of the ride than a floorless train would.


Anyways, cool video, the ride still has me excited. Also, awesome song selection, Blink 182 was my favourite band when I was just a wee lad, so that song hits a double emotional chord with me.

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Like putting 4 inline twists in a row and then another one right after a little turn to breaak double digit inversion counts, perhaps? Or a steel loop in a wooden coaster? Might these be some "gimmicks" to which you are referring?


'Cause if they are, I totally agree.


Yeah, that'd be some of them. Or the Zamperala Volairs, wooden trick track, or tobaggons.

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  • 2 weeks later...

BIG/HUGE/MASSIVE INFORMATION SESSION (or whatever you want to call it)!!!

Quoted from the admin of CWMania


Once again I was invited to take part in a tour of the Behemoth contruction site today (along with coasterboy), so that I could keep the CWMania members abreast of Behemoth development.


We met with Dineen Beaven and Brent Ellis again, this time in Brent's office to go over a list of questions compiled by all of our CWManiacs. Some of the highlights of the conversation:


  • The question everyone has been waiting for the answer to: the Drop Angle...initially in the planning stages of Behemoth, the first drop was to be 85 degrees. At some point this was changed to 75 degrees and due to the sheer number of agencies and persons involved in the project the data did not get corrected before the Behemoth website was launched. The delay in changing the data was due to needing confirmation from the appropriate parties. It is not expected that the change in drop angle will affect the public's perception of the ride.
  • There will be a test seat available at the ride entrance as well as an employee to assist guests in properly using the device
  • Spotlighting will be used to light up the ride structure at night. In addition, the lift hill will be illuminated by a set of chaser LED lights
  • The supports of the ride are not and will not be filled with sand
  • The queue area will be covered by 4 large sails designed to shade guests from the hot afternoon sun. A mist-fan system has been proposed and is likely to be added. Vending machines will be conveniently located in the centre of the queue
  • The new midway will be finished with interlocking paving stones, similar to those used throughout the park and the queue area is a concrete slab
  • The entrance to Behemoth will be highlighted by 8 individual letters spelling Behemoth, each 8 ft high, and suspended 15 ft in the air, located in a semi-circle near the queue line
  • The round element on the midway is a proposed medallion design of interlocking paving stones in front of the Behemoth sign
  • The ride exit will lead guests through the the photo booth / gift shop as they return to the midway, but guests can also bypass the building
  • The necessity for trims and G-forces of the ride will be solidified after testing has been completed
  • The ride will have an on-ride photo system (the location of the camera is yet to be determined) but there will definitely not be an on-ride video system
  • As mentioned before, the first train is set to arrive on March 1st and the others are expected to follow in mid-March. Testing will begin when the trains have been mounted on the track and the weather is co-operative. A pull-through will be done before the train is allowed to travel of its own power to ensure proper clearance at all points throughout the ride.
  • Grouting is being completed on each of the structure's footers and is around 45% complete. This process involves inserting concrete in between each of the concrete piers and the bottom of the supports and letting it cure. Due to extremely cold termperatures we have been experiencing, heaters and enclosures are being used on the larger footers to ensure proper curing.
  • Rough portions of track have been sanded and smoothed out over the past few weeks
  • Alternative names were considered for Behemoth but cannot be disclosed as they may be used for future attractions
  • A Point of View video will be added to the Wonderland website later this year
  • Marketing will focus on Behemoth this year and will be heavier on the television side with a large commercial shoot occuring in May and airing starting in June


Brent showed us a copy of the plans for the midway expansion again and "coasterboy" has made a re-creation of those plans here for your viewing pleasure.


As you already know, the steel erection has been completed for some time now and work has turned to grouting the footers, sanding the track and finishing the station. The grouting consists of inserting concrete in between the concrete piers (footers) and holding it in place with wooden forms until it cures. Sanding is nearly complete on rough portions of the track.


While looking around the station platform, we were able to go inside the operator booth and I was able to take a couple of photos from that vantage point. I hope you enjoy them.


We walked almost the entire length of track and this beast covers a lot of ground! It is sure to be a satisfying ride for all guests. Even the second airtime hill (after the hairpin turn) towers over Italian Job, as you can see in couple of the photos. The presence of the ride is just phenomenal, as I'm sure anyone who's seen it up close would say as well.


The MCBR is still so high in the air that the spiral staircase seems to wind up out of sight. The helix down from there is steep and tight meaning it will really pick up some nice speed. The helix up will allow for some good speed into the final airtime hills as well.


The Behemoth midway is quickly taking shape. As Brent mentioned in the construction diary on Wonderland's website, the queue slab has been poured and switchbacks will be arced from the midway to the seat wall next to Kingswood, following the same curvature of Sledge Hammer. This area will be covered by 4 sails arranged in such a way as to block the afternoon sun and serviced by several vending machines in the centre.


The focal point of the midway will be the gigantic Behemoth letters. Each individual letter will reach a height of 15 ft and be 8 ft tall, so this will be a really noticeable feature. The area will be surfaced with paving stones common throughout the park and a medallion feature may be inset into the bricks in front of the Behemoth lettering. Guests will move from the switchback queue area to the Kingswood side of the station and climb a staricase to board Behemoth and will exit from the opposite side toward the photo booth.


Upon exiting down the stairs from the platform, guests will pass through the building where the on-ride photos can be viewed and also where Behemoth merchandise can be purchased. Anyone wishing to avoid this area can of course detour around it.


There may be future visits in store and we did discuss the possibility of setting up a CWMania event for May, which I will provide details about at a much later time. Thanks again to CWMania members for the questions, Coasterboy for his admirable notetaking skills, and thanks to Brent Ellis and Dineen Beaven for taking time out of their busy schedules to answer our questions and do the tour.


End of report


Dan out


Photos of the site tour are available at: http://www.cwmania.com/photos/thumbnails.php?album=124


A video of the tour is available at:


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Interesting...looks like its possible they won't use all those trims depending on how testing goes.


Toronto is pretty close to me, I wonder if its worth going this summer. The rest of their coasters look very uninspiring.


You'd be correct. Vortex is the only other coaster there worth riding more than once. At least our flat ride collection is pretty good.

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A great construction tour was given to the guys at cwmania with LOTS of great photos. Check out 300 photos and a video of this coaster here:



Here's a few preview pics for you:


It's just like one of those noodles you find in soup.


The snow is part of the theming.


Some wackiness.


That turn around is TIGHT!


Yup, the first drop is 75 degrees.

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^I look at those pics and wish the UK had more rides like that! Or at least some good rides closer to me. Or cheaper fuel. I'll accept any of the above


Behemoth is looking great, I'll probably never ride it but I really like the colour scheme, and I love the look of the helix and turnaround.

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^As with all coasters, the forces are created by the speed and rate of change of direction. The higher the speed, and the smaller the corner/bend radius, the higher the forces. So it will be different depending on where you sit, since the ends of the train are at slightly different speeds as they pass through the same sections. In general, the longer the train, the more noticable the difference becomes.

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